Easiest way to trade Bitcoin (Coinbase?)

[phycokiller]

On 6/13/2020 at 3:04 PM, Peter Denis said:

Yes, I don't deny that. 

But the question is of course who will ultimately pay for those millions made out of thin air?

If there is no influx of new users investing in Bitcoin, the scheme will come to a grinding halt, and when that triggers an exodus of Bitcoin holders cashing out, it will - as always - be those selling (too) late that will get only a fraction of the price they bought them for.  The money they lost will have been wasted on keeping this crazy scheme in the air, as well as being used to pay for the Ferrari's and Lamborgini's of those who stepped in early and cashed out in time.

A smart and decentralized pyramid scheme, but a pyramid scheme nonetheless... 

if there is no influx sure but there is a steady influx and no sign of it slowing, and bitcoin is pretty big now, bigger then many countries economies, so its not going to go anywhere fast or without warning. you say that it offers no products or services. thats not really true. it is probably the most secure form of investment available. your bitcoins wont be going anywhere while civilization is still around, and its one of the few investments where its totally in your hands. this is why more people are investing in it. not because they are hoping to get rich. it also has the advantage over any other investment in that it can be transferred relatively quickly to anywhere in the world. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by phycokiller

[Peter Denis]

15 minutes ago, phycokiller said:

if there is no influx sure but there is a steady influx and no sign of it slowing, and its pretty big now, bigger then many countries economies, so its not going to go anywhere fast or without warning. you say that it offers no products or services. thats not really true. it is probably the most secure form of investment available. your bitcoins wont be going anywhere while civilization is still around, and its one of the few investments where its totally in your hands. this is why more people are investing in it. not because they are hoping to get rich. it also has the advantage over any other investment in that it can be transferred relatively quickly to anywhere in the world. 

1 - In order for the Bitcoin scheme to survive, it needs both a steady influx of new funds, as well as 'hodlers' not cashing out en masse.  Hence the continual propaganda that it will keep doing well, to attract new investors and preventing hodlers from cashing out.

2 - Bitcoin is not based on any value-creating activity, it are just numbers on a digital ledger with no 'obligation to a debt' - it is literally backed by nothing except the belief of the Bitcoin-users in their Monopoly-money which has no connection with any 'real world' obligations.

3 - I agree that abolishing any middlemen and any checks before irrevocably transferring Bitcoin makes the transfer-process relatively fast, but Good Luck if something went wrong because indeed it is totally in your hands...

[bander]

9 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

We live in a crazy world in which anything is possible, so maybe you are right with your prediction.

Time will tell.

But the only way for the Bitcoin price to go up - besides manipulation by whales and which is always temporary - is the influx of new users willing to invest in the Bitcoin Easy Money scheme.

That is becoming increasingly harder, as the prophecy of continuing stellar profits has turned out to be a false one, and the Bitcoin-crash at the end of 2017 has of course not been forgotten.

I follow the Bitcoin-saga from some distance, as I am interested in mass-delusion spectacles.

We are playing the same "game", watching and monitoring the whales and ready to invest some money when the time is right.

Don't believe the bitcoin youtubers who have been preaching bitcoin to the moon since the halving, they are notorious liars and show the subscribers graphs they make up by themselves.

[phycokiller]

17 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

1 - In order for the Bitcoin scheme to survive, it needs both a steady influx of new funds, as well as 'hodlers' not cashing out en masse.  Hence the continual propaganda that it will keep doing well, to attract new investors and preventing hodlers from cashing out.

2 - Bitcoin is not based on any value-creating activity, it are just numbers on a digital ledger with no 'obligation to a debt' - it is literally backed by nothing except the belief of the Bitcoin-users in their Monopoly-money which has no connection with any 'real world' obligations.

3 - I agree that abolishing any middlemen and any checks before irrevocably transferring Bitcoin makes the transfer-process relatively fast, but Good Luck if something went wrong because indeed it is totally in your hands...

1 - no reason that wont happen, been happening for ten years and no reason to think it will change

2 - cheap fast totally secure transactions seem like value to me. being backed by nothing also seems to be an advantage, its just pure money with no other use.

3 - I agree

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, phycokiller said:

1 - no reason that wont happen, been happening for ten years and no reason to think it will change

2 - cheap fast totally secure transactions seem like value to me. being backed by nothing also seems to be an advantage, its just pure money with no other use.

3 - I agree

1 - The base of the Pyramid is becoming larger and larger.  Obviously that has the advantage that manipulation by whales becomes more difficult as the amounts of Bitcoin needed to do so is also much larger now than it used to be.  But it is undeniable that without the influx of new Bitcoin investors that the scheme is unsustainable.  Whether it will crash in 1 year, 3 years, 10 years nobody can predict.  But personally I think that 10 years of continual new influx is pushing your luck...

2 - Bitcoin is not 'pure money'.  Real money is based on an obligation to a debt which can be enforced.  Or to put it in simple terms > real money is equivalent to a contract in which the person that bought something from you promises to re-pay you with the equivalent worth of what is written in the contract, and if he does not do so his possessions can be seized to re-pay the debt.  

But Bitcoin is not based on such an obligation, it is literally child's play money.  If you understand the difference with 'real money', it is astonishing that people are voluntarily changing their real money (enforcable debt-obligation) for something that is based on nothing.  To be fair, it's not really nothing, because you are the proud owner of one specific combination of numbers that exists in cyber-space and registered on the blockchain.  As long as other people are willing to buy the ownership of that cyberspace-number from you at the same or a higher price than what you bought it for, Everything Will be OK.  It's like buying a non-existing piece of land, as long as people are willing to buy the 'owner papers' of that non-existing piece of land from you, why bother that the Emperor has No Clothes?

[Masterton]

On 6/13/2020 at 12:16 PM, a3tsw said:

over the last couple of months I have been slowly recuperating my losses by frequently switching between bitcoin and tether , at one point I was almost $1,000 down on my initial investment.

if I get to a point where I am back to my original investment amount, I will almost certainly take that.

 

Just checked back and my initial jump into this was 15th December 2017 , bitcoin price on that Day £13,716 , talk about bad timing ☹️☹️

 

 

Don't listen to the doom and gloom of certain posters here. A lot of people are sour grapes about Bitcoin because they did not invest in it and missed out on profits, or did and made bad choices which led to losses. You should have been trading between BTC and USDT since day 1, you would have made a lot of money by now. If you want to make money with BTC you need to be monitoring it all the time. You can't glance at it every month or two and see if the price is up or not. It goes up and down every day and is very volatile and you need to be ready to buy or sell when the price moves. In this week alone it has gone up and down by $1000 for example. Money for nothing if you're on the ball.

[Masterton]

On 6/6/2020 at 4:31 AM, a3tsw said:

I bought some bitcoin back in 2017. I still can’t figure out how to transfer back to my bank account.

 

On 6/6/2020 at 7:13 AM, kenk24 said:

Thank you - this needed to be said and I hope everyone reads it... I know an older fellow who lost his life's savings... 

 

@a3tsw - Transferring back to your bank is easy enough, but it depends on what platform/app/exchange you are using. 

 

@kenk24 - What needed to be said ? That the poster you quoted wasn't sure how to transfer money to his account ? Please can you explain what happened to this older fellow you know ? How exactly did he lose his life's savings ? If he bought Bitcoin and didn't sell it, then he still has it. He didn't lose anything, it is still there in that case. Or did he buy and sell at the wrong time and lose money based on his own choices ? Please clarify.

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, Masterton said:

 

Don't listen to the doom and gloom of certain posters here. A lot of people are sour grapes about Bitcoin because they did not invest in it and missed out on profits, or did and made bad choices which led to losses. You should have been trading between BTC and USDT since day 1, you would have made a lot of money by now. If you want to make money with BTC you need to be monitoring it all the time. You can't glance at it every month or two and see if the price is up or not. It goes up and down every day and is very volatile and you need to be ready to buy or sell when the price moves. In this week alone it has gone up and down by $1000 for example. Money for nothing if you're on the ball.

You are most probably referring to me as the Prime Doom and Gloom poster on this thread.

I am a convinced No-Coiner and no 'sour grapes' at all because I deliberately did NOT 'invest' in Bitcoin (for ethical reasons).

Money for nothing (for some) - but who foots the bill?

 

[Masterton]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

You are most probably referring to me as the Prime Doom and Gloom poster on this thread.

I am a convinced No-Coiner and no 'sour grapes' at all because I deliberately did NOT 'invest' in Bitcoin (for ethical reasons).

Money for nothing (for some) - but who foots the bill?

 

 

Sure, you are free to not invest for whatever reason you choose but there is a difference between choosing not to do something for ethical reasons and incorrectly (IMO) accusing crypto currency of being a ponzi scheme. I actually do agree with you to a certain point about one man's loss is another man's gain but that is true about a lot of things. Playing poker or slot machines is an obvious example. But any investment in property, stocks, shares, gold etc is exactly the same. Buying any limited edition product usually results in that product rising in value as people who want it later are willing to pay more for it. Is selling something for more than you paid for it unethical ? There is a large grey area there.

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, Masterton said:

 

 

@a3tsw - Transferring back to your bank is easy enough, but it depends on what platform/app/exchange you are using. 

 

@kenk24 - What needed to be said ? That the poster you quoted wasn't sure how to transfer money to his account ? Please can you explain what happened to this older fellow you know ? How exactly did he lose his life's savings ? If he bought Bitcoin and didn't sell it, then he still has it. He didn't lose anything, it is still there in that case. Or did he buy and sell at the wrong time and lose money based on his own choices ? Please clarify.

I don't know all the details, but I think he sent his money to some sort of illegitimate agent who scammed him out of the money... to blame it on bitcoin is somewhat unfair... but for most of us, bitcoin is a bit of a mystery and if you wanted to get in, it might have been difficult to discern who is real and not... from my way of thinking, it is not yet a mainstream investment... and as such, this older fellow was vulnerable to the scam... if he wanted to buy IBM, TSLA or MSFT - this would not have happened... 

[Masterton]

2 hours ago, kenk24 said:

I don't know all the details, but I think he sent his money to some sort of illegitimate agent who scammed him out of the money... to blame it on bitcoin is somewhat unfair... but for most of us, bitcoin is a bit of a mystery and if you wanted to get in, it might have been difficult to discern who is real and not... from my way of thinking, it is not yet a mainstream investment... and as such, this older fellow was vulnerable to the scam... if he wanted to buy IBM, TSLA or MSFT - this would not have happened... 

 

Yes that is very unfortunate for him. To be fair, he could have been scammed out of his wealth buying IBM too had he gone through an illegitimate agent. It is probably advisable when making any investment to research it thoroughly beforehand and know the risks. I understand what you are saying about Bitcoin not being "mainstream", but when you consider that the current value of Bitcoin worldwide is around $150 BILLION, then perhaps that view is worth reconsidering.... ????