Come on guys, couldn't we spare the fighting words and talk like civilized people?  What's with the name calling, racist and insulting comments?  I'm a Thai woman, by the way, but I still think it's totally unnecessary to be rude around here.  There's no need to be offensive.

Thai woman, farang woman, Thai man, farang man, we're all human in the end of the day, with our positive and negative characteristics.  I don't think any particular characteristics should be label to one race/gender.  Sure there are differences in culture.  But I wouldn't go so far as to generalise things like having cellulite, going to a brothel for underage prostitutes or wanting equality to one race!!  

???

Quite right, D80, I will now stick my head back in the sand & give my b/f all my money (about 60 baht) to go & find a brothel so he can screw underage burmese girls while I rub anti cellulite cream into my white thighs before joining a womens lib rally & smoke some fags with all the other farang girls

Quite right, D80, I will now stick my head back in the sand & give my b/f all my money (about 60 baht) to go & find a brothel so he can screw underage burmese girls while I rub anti cellulite cream into my white thighs before joining a womens lib rally & smoke some fags with all the other farang girls

There!

I knew it! :laugh:

D80 your words are very wise.

I've read some postings on other forums and am shocked at the views that farang men have towards farang women. What have we done that's so bad to deserve these views?

The main things are that we're fat, out spoken and not feminine. There are women like this all around the world, even in thailand - don't think this stereotype is suitable for all farang women.

I'm sure that the men who hold these views have probably had unpleasant encounters with women in their own countries - but it's not fair to label the rest of us just cause of a few bad apples. Not every farang male I've met (or every other women has met) has treated me properly but I'm not about to look down on the male race because of this.

Not every person from the same country is the same - we're all individuals with good and bad qualities. Take a person for who they are on the inside, not from where they come from.

Nat x

ting tong I hope your anatomic physics are gorgeous so you can have all these perfect thai BODIES for free because that is obviously all you are after, glad that guys like you don't bother us average women.

thank god there are still people out there who look at inner beauty, or why should the beautiful thai ladies come close to male cellulite ridden chain smoking asses??!

and yeah, thai girls don't want to do with hippie thai guys and thai guys not want to do with bargirls, only we farangs. but surely not every farang....... ???

It appears that it's us farangs that hold resentment towards one and other, in a foreign country! The whole thing to me is quite absurd - you'd think that this situation would bring us closer, not divide the genders' further.

D80 is a thai female and does not hold resentment towards us farangs (well I don't think she does   ) - think we should all take a leaf from her book  

ting tong,

obviously your personality would not attract any farang woman, cellulite or not, chain smoking or not, and what ever other uneducated comments you chose to throw at all of us. A little resentfull are we? :laugh:  :laugh:

Cold but getting warmer in the north

Is there an element of 'slumming it' involved here?

After all I wouldn't dream of having a 'serious' relationship with someone who's formal education petered out at 10 years of age or less.

How many girls here have boyfriends that are university educated?

What sort of conversations do you have?

Can there be any expectation of equality in the relationship if your earning potential is so wholly different from theirs?

I would not be in a 'serious' relationship with someone who could not fully support herself.

Are things really so bad that you have to put yourself in this position?

If the man loves you so much, let him go out to work and support you, then you will see how much he loves you.

These relationships just sound like extended holiday romances. As long as the 'meal ticket' keeps rolling, then it will go on.

How many here can tell me that their relationships are based on real equality?

Truthfully now.

Is there an element of 'slumming it' involved here?

After all I wouldn't dream of having a 'serious' relationship with someone who's formal education petered out at 10 years of age or less.

Not all thais (men & women) are poorly educated, this is a common misconception.

How many girls here have boyfriends that are university educated?

I do, he studied music & art, he also attanded Catholic school & after a bit of practice his years of learning English came back fairly quickly. I finished school at 16 with just my gcse's but am lucky enough to live in a country that allowed me to get a good job with a more than average salary on my abilities & common sense. Unlike thailand, where you need a university degree to be a document checker. (as per Rinradas post on another subject)

What sort of conversations do you have?

The same as every other young couple, the future, plans for children, what to have for dinner tonight, will we go to the pub on thursday????

Can there be any expectation of equality in the relationship if your earning potential is so wholly different from theirs?

Are things really so bad that you have to put yourself in this position?

If the man loves you so much, let him go out to work and support you, then you will see how much he loves you.

I don't recall there being anything on any of the farang girls postings regarding our boyfriends not going out to work, all of the thai men I know dating farang girls work.  In fact it is usually them who support us in Thailand as it is difficult to find work, particully on the islands, jobs for foreigners are scarse. If my b/f & I need big money (for shops lease etc) I will happily go back to the UK & earn in a couple of months what we make in 1 year in LOS, but the rest of the time he pays the bills, rent, shopping cost etc & any money I have goes on my socialising, clothes, cosmetics etc.

These relationships just sound like extended holiday romances. As long as the 'meal ticket' keeps rolling, then it will go on.

I agree that many of the relationships between farang girls & Thai men are holiday romances but not all. Most of the casual relationships that I see are with girls staying in LOS for a couple of weeks or a month.

I have been in Thailand 5 years & have been with my b/f just over 1 year. I had no intention of settling with a thai guy but found a kind, sincere, quiet, respectful, hardworking & polite man who makes me happy, sorry if I seem foolish to you but in comparison with old UK b/fs, this guy is a dream come true.

How many here can tell me that their relationships are based on real equality?

I don't know if any relationship, regless of what nationality you are, can be fully equal. I clean, do the laundry & shopping, he cooks, works every day, feeds the dogs, I garden, he emptys the bins. Maybe not very liberated but equal enough for me.

::

Sorry, I have just figured out I have no idea how to use the QUOTES thing!

Was that question just for Farang girls & Thai men or for anyone??

If that's just for farang girls & Thai men, my best friend's brother is engaged to a western woman, he's been to uni, earn more than me & my partner put together... a very respectable person-so you can count that one.  Another is living in Scotland now, just a mate of mine, went to uni, working in Scotland, married to an English woman, got a beautiful daughter.  There are more but I am not in contact with them now.  

It does happen although they may be the minority (I don't know... never done the serious enough research - anything good I seem to say in interracial boards seem to be dismissed so easily as rare cases, although I see otherwise).  They have normal conversation like you and me, whatever takes their fancy.  They don't talk about Third world debt or the Iraq dossier all the time though.

If it's just for anyone, I'll have to write a book!!

Uni education is important in some respect.  However, I've got mates (Thais and farangs) who have never been to uni, left school at 16 (or younger) and earn more than any of us who slave away at uni for years.  They are also very interesting to talk to.  Some of my uni friends are so dull and some so 'uncultured' (their own words-they're proud of that hehehhe), I'd rather not sit there and have a conversation with them.  I'm not saying that it's the way forward.  I know it's rare that people with little education can achieve so much.  But sometimes, it's not just the Uni education that makes a person great or knowledgeable in life.  

Also, when you're talking about earning capacity, is that by Thai or western standard?  

I can see where you're coming from and really for long term partner, it's more likely to work if you're from some sort of similar background.  Otherwise, lots of adjustment is needed from both sides.  It can be hard work, especially for extreme cases like a university professor marrying a labourer.  Some get through with it, others don't.  

But it'll depends on what your 'equality' mean.  Equality of your achievement?  Education?  Earning capacity?  If so, I don't think many people would be able to say their relationship is completely equal, regardless of the racial basis of the relationship.  

When I refer to equality, I look at it as the respect each party have for one another to be in a successful relationship.  I can still respect my husband although he went to a lesser institution than me for his education (as indeed he did) since the sort of person he is earns this respect from me (and vice versa).  

A farang couple, my neighbour here in London, has a son.  The guy stays home and looks after the kid while the wife goes out to work.  Is that not enough equality?  Women have been doing that for yonks!  Seem practical to me, as the wife earns more and the kid got someone to look after him.  If my husband wanted to do the same and our situation will be better that way, then I see nothing wrong with him not going out to bring the bread home as long as he does his part.

I agree that people should be careful when it comes to relationship as they can be used and exploited emotionally and materially.  However, that applied to any relationship you can have, even the ones where you earn the same and went to the same uni, anywhere in the world.  

I think the word that I would use is 'compatibility' rather than 'equality' when it comes to relationship.  Do you get on as a person?  Will she/he stick around when you go through rough patches?  A person's education or earning capacity tells you nothing about what sort of a guy/girl that he/she is.  A woman may be able to support herself but makes a dash for the exit when you have some problems in your life.  Afterall, relationship is not just another set of M&A (merger & acquisition) and most people hope their partners won't jump ship when things get a bit rough!

   

From other postings I've read instances where a thai (male or female) has used a farang for their money. However, this happens everywhere - wouldn't bring it down to nationality. While I was at uni I was living with my western boyfriend who earnt a decent wage yet expected me to pay for everything as well as do all the cooking and cleaning! The relationship lasted 2 years before enough was enough.

Haven't been with my current thai boyfriend that long and not sure where the relationship is going to go, but at least he doesn't behave or expect anything like my ex did.

Also, I wouldn't knock someone just cause they don't have a university degree - some of the most interesting and intelligent people I've met have only finished the 10th grade.

As D80 said it comes down to compatibilty.

I'm SURE that I added a reply here... Mai pen rai...

Unfortunately, the BEST Thai men I have met, have also not been the most sought after by the ladies....  (PS I'm a male)

Where are these 'best' thai men?  

I'll be the first to say that sometimes the 'nice' guys get overlooked for the 'bad boys'. Not sure why some women are attracted to them - might be the thrill of being with someone reckless or the challenge of trying to tame them. Possibly it's their confidence in showing you their interested - any ideas?

Hi, I'm new here but am thoroughly enjoying reading all your posts and your advice to Nat about Thai men etc.

I've also read a lot of the topics about Thai women and notice that many of them seem to be centred on bargirls.

I was wondering if any of you know many Thai women (not bargirls) that also prefer to have farang boyfriends and partners and what their general thoughts on Farang men are?

Hi Karn, welcome to the forum.

I know of a few thai ladies who are not or have ever been bar girls, who would like to have farang boyfriends, mostly they have had bad expeirences with thai men before & see farang men as another alternative, they also maybe want the opportunity to live & study abroad & to provide better for their families. I have one friend who is in her early 30's, she is a virgin, works in a resteraunt, speaks english very well, although she would never admit it & only dates farang guys, looking for the ONE. Unfortunatly, she always gets her heart broken as she will not sleep with the guy & they usually go off with a bar girl or someone with a more looser approach to sex, but it never puts her off farang guys & she is convinced that one day she will meet the right one.

You're right in that most of the posts about thai women relate to bar girls & it would do us all good to remeber that thailand doesn't revolve around Nana plaza or the lamai beach lady bar scene, there are many different types of thai men & women from different social & educational backgrounds & that's what makes it such an interesting place to live!!!

A bit preachy at the end so sorry about that

Thanks for the welcome Boo! That was nice.

Indeed the reasons you gave for Thai women being drawn to the idea of Farang men seem to be the ones you hear most often. (and fortunately, as it partially came back to Thai men and their behaviour, it meant I wasn't so completely off-topic after all   )

God, I must be horribly romantic, (I'm not) but I found your story about your friend not giving up until she found The One actually very lovely. I hope her perseverance gets her what she wants.

And as for you being preachy at the end Boo, I agree with you.

I think that was kind of what struck me when I was reading all the other topics.

On my visits to Thailand (of which there have been indulgently many) you can't help but notice the farang man and Thai (bar) girl syndrome, but I've also met a few lovely couples living happily together, completely outside of that scene.

As you suggested, it's not all Pattaya.

Oh, and I'm coming over again next month.....to work on a project about this stuff. (which is why I wanted to understand it from people living there) so all your posts on here have been really useful and fascinating to read. A big help!

Thanks for the welcome Boo! That was nice

your welcome Karn. This forum, although named farang girls in thailnd is open to anyone male, female, thai, farang, with relevant & interesting things to say.

Oh, and I'm coming over again next month.....to work on a project about this stuff. (which is why I wanted to understand it from people living there) so all your posts on here have been really useful and fascinating to read. A big help!

What project are you doing, is it a book, thesis etc??? Sounds interesting.

What project are you doing, is it a book, thesis etc??? Sounds interesting.

More of a video.

I'm an artist. I work with a Dutch artist here in Holland, usually making films and photo works.

We've been commisioned to make a film/video project about 'searching for love' .

We've spent the last few years going to Thailand at every possible opportunity (have already made two works there about completely different things) and have always noticed that side of things on our visits; the farang-thai mix and it's always interested us. So this commision is a perfect opportunity to go deeper in to the whole thing.

We don't want to make a work about sex tourism etc., but about genuine attempts to find love between people from different cultures/parts of the world.

That's why I asked my first question, I wanted to know what the general thinking is as to why some Thai women reject Thai men in favour of farangs.

We want the work to focus on normal women (don't know what word to use if they're not bar girls...so normal will have to do for now) and their thoughts, hopes and dreams about finding love.

That's also why your story was so nice, about your friend holding out for The One.

At the moment we're busy contacting Thai women to take part in the film and have had such sweet and generous responses from women from all over Thailand. So we're really looking forward to meeting them.

Still trying to find more people that would like to take part though, so if you have any tips on a good way to go about it, we'd really appreciate any advice.

It's a kind of a sensitive subject and we want to handle it that way, so the initial contact is a delicate thing, but so far the preparation is going quite well.

But that's only the start.......

karn, you may want to try posting something on http://www.thailand-uk.com/. Although this is a UK based forum there are a lot of thai ladies married to farang men who log on & could maybe give you some helpful advice on how to approach the subject with other thai women or even friends who would be interesting subjects for your documentary.

Also, have you ever thought about doing a section on the other way around, all us farang girls who are dating or married to thai men?  

Hi Karn,

I agree with Boo.  It would be interesting indeed to have a programme about Thai men & farang women.  I for one would like to see that.

I also agree with you and Boo that the interracial relationships in Thailand seem to focus around bargirls.  It annoys me sometimes that a Thai woman going out with a Western man is automatically labelled that way (I am Thai).  I've got nothing against bargirls but to be quite honest I would not like to be seen as one.  I also get treated badly a few times when I walk around with my partner from ignorant people in Thailand because they think I am a bargirl (even though I look more chinese than Thai).  I've never had any such problem here in England.  ???  

It's interesting that you are asking the question why some women 'prefer' western men.  I can't really answer that myself.  It's not because my partner is a westerner that makes me 'prefer' him.  It's more like the qualities he possess which I think many Thai men also possess.  The fact that he is a westerner is a bit of a co-incident really.  My Thai friends who are going out with/married to non-Thais seem to say the same thing.  It would be interesting to hear what your project will conclude.    

I can see why some Thai women may specifically seek Western partner.  Some of the reasons I have heard are fair enough (like a chance to live abroad etc).  But some are based on real misconceptions.  Some Thai women really believe all Western men don't cheat on their partners (!), are perfect gentlemen (!) always take good care of their family (!) and are rich (!).  Well, from what I have seen, obviously, not all of them are like that otherwise we would all be spoiled for choice!  heheheh  

In fact, I think there aren't really that much differences betweem a decent Thai man and a decent western man.  It's just that, in my opinion, in Thai culture, a Thai man can get away with the sort of behaviour that most people in the west would frown upon.  For example, it would be ok for a Thai man to visit prostitutes even if he is married (although this is changing but I still see Thai people refer to it as 'men's nature').  It is also ok for a Thai man to leave all the housework/child rearing to his wife and do nothing at home.  Traditional Thai women are taught these things since they were little and some are even taught to serve the men as their normal duty.  Not for me, thank you!  

If you can read Thai, you may be interested in 'Pantip.com'.  I used to go on there quite a lot.  There are loads of Thai people of all age using that webboard.  Lots of interesting views on traditional male roles as well.  I was surprise how many Thai men still 'expect' to be waited on, get a virgin bride while they sleep around and continue to do so when married.  And I was even more surprise how many Thai women accept these things as normal.  But then again, it might just be all talk and nothing else.  I still believe that individually a Thai man and a farang man aren't really that different.  However, I also think it's a different story when we talk about the stereotypes, the cultures and the expectations around them as a group.

I don't live in Thailand anymore.  Otherwise I could have helped you with the research!!  hehehehhe    :laugh:

Hi, I'm new here but am thoroughly enjoying reading all your posts and your advice to Nat about Thai men etc.

I've also read a lot of the topics about Thai women and notice that many of them seem to be centred on bargirls.

I was wondering if any of you know many Thai women (not bargirls) that also prefer to have farang boyfriends and partners and what their general thoughts on Farang men are?

I had the most wonderful girlfriend who was a nurse at Bangkok Christian Hospital.  She was not stunning, but was absolutely wonderful - then she told me she was married to a Thai man!  I never gave her a dime, by the way, she was very self concious about not allowing me to pay for anything.  We have broken up, but are still good friends.  I felt bad about her husband, but I think he had another girlfriend or two.....

What project are you doing, is it a book, thesis etc??? Sounds interesting.

More of a video.

I'm an artist. I work with a Dutch artist here in Holland, usually making films and photo works.

We've been commisioned to make a film/video project about 'searching for love' .

We've spent the last few years going to Thailand at every possible opportunity (have already made two works there about completely different things) and have always noticed that side of things on our visits; the farang-thai mix and it's always interested us. So this commision is a perfect opportunity to go deeper in to the whole thing.

We don't want to make a work about sex tourism etc., but about genuine attempts to find love between people from different cultures/parts of the world.

That's why I asked my first question, I wanted to know what the general thinking is as to why some Thai women reject Thai men in favour of farangs.

We want the work to focus on normal women (don't know what word to use if they're not bar girls...so normal will have to do for now) and their thoughts, hopes and dreams about finding love.

That's also why your story was so nice, about your friend holding out for The One.

At the moment we're busy contacting Thai women to take part in the film and have had such sweet and generous responses from women from all over Thailand. So we're really looking forward to meeting them.

Still trying to find more people that would like to take part though, so if you have any tips on a good way to go about it, we'd really appreciate any advice.

It's a kind of a sensitive subject and we want to handle it that way, so the initial contact is a delicate thing, but so far the preparation is going quite well.

But that's only the start.......

Karn - you should check out this website-

www.couldthisbelove.endoftheinternet.org

But some are based on real misconceptions.  Some Thai women really believe all Western men don't cheat on their partners (!), are perfect gentlemen (!) always take good care of their family (!) and are rich (!).  Well, from what I have seen, obviously, not all of them are like that otherwise we would all be spoiled for choice!  heheheh  

Boo, thanks a million for the link! I'll definitely give it a look in.

And Boo and D80, seeing as we (myself and the other half of this duo) seem to manage to turn all our projects on Thailand at the moment, we may well find an excuse to come back for another project about Thai men and farang women. Who knows...... (We don't need much encouragement to go back, just a backer who sees fit to throw funds at these ideas )

Your post was really informative too D80. (I knew from your previous comments that you are Thai and your boyfriend is a farang.) What you say above - in the quoted text - was what particularly fascinates me about the tendency of Thai women to project on to western men qualities I (from experience) certainly couldn't quite guarantee  

In a sense, I can't help thinking these hopes are based on a misconception (the grass being greener etc.) and as you say, I also think it depends on the individual, not his nationality per se. But that all becomes more complex when you bring in, as you did, the cultural differences concerning attitudes and traditional norms between the sexes.

And I can't help thinking that Thai women do indeed get the short straw where cultural norms are concerned.

That is why the second part of our project will be focussed on farang men. Not as part of the filming, (and not farang men in Thailand) but the men they are hoping to find a better life with (as they often put it). The second half of the work will take place here in Holland, where we will set up a search for 'The ideal Western Man' - who no doubt will have all the qualities you listed ??? - Well, there has to be ONE somewhere!!!!

Just kidding, I think the list is a bit of a tall order......but as close as possible would be good enough.

(The perfect woman would be just as tall an order - she adds quickly - but there doesn't seem to be such a cultural rush on for us )

Something tells me that this second part will be the tricky bit, but it should be interesting trying.....

And D80, I wish I could read Thai, it would certainly have helped an awful lot with this one! And yes......had you been living in Thailand, I'd have been begging for your help with research at this point!  

I had the most wonderful girlfriend who was a nurse at Bangkok Christian Hospital.  She was not stunning, but was absolutely wonderful - then she told me she was married to a Thai man!  I never gave her a dime, by the way, she was very self concious about not allowing me to pay for anything.  We have broken up, but are still good friends.  I felt bad about her husband, but I think he had another girlfriend or two.....

Ouch!

That really can't have been nice at all.

But now that you are friends, has she told you why she did it?

I'm thinking there can always be so many reasons, that have nothing to do with nationality, just with being human and 'needing' something more.

Like being in an unhappy marriage, needing affection.......or just plain falling in love at the wrong time. (or when you're not 'supposed' to.)

Did she clarify it for you?

At least she was honest with you and as you pointed out, it wasn't a financial thing.

Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt though.

(I'm a big one for reasons when I get hurt.....can accept the fact, but need to be able to clarify and rationalize it all from the other person's side before I truly get over it.)

And thanks for the link, by the way, I'm off there now to read myself silly again.....

Karn - you should check out this website-

www.couldthisbelove.endoftheinternet.org

I'd read about that in another topic and would love to see it. Sounded good as it wasn't sanctimonious.

And even though it's about courtesans, the focus seems to be about hope......will have to get my hands on it somehow.

Thanks Samuisam.

Karn,

What's this project for anyway?  Is it a television programme??  If so, I will definitely keep my eyes open for it (if it will be broadcast here in England of course... wishful thinking on my part!)!  Do you know when and where will it be broadcast?

BTW, if there's anything I can help with your work, please let me know.  

Karn,

I could put you in touch with the gentleman who produced, "Could this be love - Interviews with thai Courtesans",

Cold and now it's hot :cool:

A Link you can click on :

http://www.couldthisbelove.endoftheinternet.org