Thai men

[Karn]

What's this project for anyway? Do you know when and where will it be broadcast?

BTW, if there's anything I can help with your work, please let me know.  

It's not for television, so if it is ever broadcast on TV (which happens sometimes) it will be on local, arty Dutch stations.

It's actually been commisioned for a kind of cultural cinema here in Amsterdam. They have an outdoor screen and they invite artists to make films to show on that. But we are planning to extend the project to include the search for our ideal western man, which will be done with advertising and a website.

Once that's up and running, the 'films' will be put on the website as streaming video, so maybe that's some way you can see what happens with all this when we finally get it all made.

Rather than a documentary, it's kind of a commision for art in public space, but a lot of our work has a kind of documentary feel, so I guess that's why they asked us.

(Next year we are planning to get to work on a TV documentary.....but whether that will take us to Thailand or not, we don't know yet.)

And thanks for your offer of help! That's really nice of you.

The main problem we have is of course language.

It's difficult to know whether the women we have approached understand our mails, but so far the people who have responded to say they will take part, seem to understand well enough.

Now we're just hoping some more replies will come in.  

[Karn]

Thanks for the links etc. Cold and Roger.

I'd really love to see it!

Is it only possible to buy it over the internet or is it on general release, do you know?

[robertT]

This looks like the best place to propose the question. What do we talk about when we speak of love between Asians and falangs?...romantic love?...are there Asian poets that carry on in this way?

I have been married for three years to a Thai lady 16 years my junior. We are not in love in the romantic sense. I like her and she thinks that I am a nice man and together we do OK. I don't know what her conception of 'romantic love' is...the arrangement is OK and in place. I'm sure she feels the same. She provides the traditional arrangement of comfort, pleasure and etc. and I help out with family expenses and etc. Everybody's happy. She is top person in her family and decides how the money will be spent with regard to rice harvests and so on.

Now...this could not be inverted...a Thai man would never let his falang wife control family matters in the same way..even if she could speak Thai which is unlikely.

If it is true that falangs and Thais have different a different awareness regarding 'true love' what are we talking about when we speak about 'love' between Asians and westerners? In the absence of colloquy I say that convenience and mutual regard are to be looked at in this respect.

Whining PC white women should crawl back under their rocks if SE Asia isn't suitable for their purposes.

(Editor...sorry if that is OTT)

[Boo]

Hi RobertT,

Your comment & question about how different cultures define "love" was valid & interesting, which was why I was shocked at your last comment about "whining PC white girls".

Your situation with your wife works for you & you are both aware of what your marraige is. Many other men looking for love with Asian women might want to think about this also as, has been discussed in other parts of this forum, they are often disapointed with the women that they meet, as they are maybe expecting to have hearts & flowers & the women is just looking for a better life & more financial stability but this isn't always the case. Some of us do have "real" love, expressed & defined by our partners in a way that is suitable to us individually & as a women in her later 20's with a fiancee in his early 30's, ours is a fairly equal & modern partnership. I do not interfere in his business & family & he does not interfere in mine, but as a couple our choices in our lives are discussed & decided on together.

But to tell "whining PC white girls" to crawl back under their rocks is not only insulting it is also hypocrytical. If you read a lot of the posts from the men on this forum, you will find them to be "whining" as well!

If the relationship between you & your wife works for you then good luck to you both but please do not come & express the veiw that become some couples have a more modern outlook to relationships, that it is somehow wrong.

What is good for the goose is not always good for the gander!

[robertT]

Boo...yeah, you are right...the whining PC white girl comment was out of line. It goes without saying that the same applies to men! The point I was trying to make is that alot of folks when they come to Asia or when observing relationships between Asian/falang couples want to define things in an ethnocentric way...ie., 'it can't be love' or 'someone's being taken for a ride', etc. Not to say practical aspects don't apply to relationships in the West. I had a lot of Asian girl friends before I married one and in all cases the practical aspects predominated...there was never the drop dead, heart pounding, sleepless nights, etc that one associates with being in love in the western sense.

Thus from personal experience I doubt that the same arrangement applies universally. Best to take things as they come and use the empirical approach when making judgments.

By the way...I appreciate your gentle reply. When I woke up this morning I said 'uh oh...what did I put on the chat line last night?' I expected a chorus of 'get ####ed you dumb ####...what planet do you live on?' and etc. Too much vodka late at night and no other falangs to talk to.

All the best

[Karn]

Robert,

I found your comments actually valid (apart from the PC white girls, of course, but then vodka, forums and Karn don't go so well together either).

I know a couple of Western relationships based on the same principles of mutual support, rather than romantic love and it was interesting to read that, in your experience, this is more prevalent in Asia.

But again, as Boo also mentioned, there appear to be plenty of Western men looking for the romantic side of things who get frustrated with the emphasis of finance and practicality.

I think it comes down to the individual, in the end. (again)

Boo also mentioned earlier her (thai) friend looking for romantic love with Farang men.

Some people want security and comfort, others dream of romance, soul-mates and all that stuff.

I suppose all that matters is that people chose for what they want and don't settle for less, but meet somebody with similar needs and are happy/content in the end.

Which all sounds wonderfully simple......pffffff.

Another thought that springs to mind, is that I don't know so many white women either, who would find themselves falling for a man with no ability to support himself and who would rely on her for financial support. This is dangerously un-PC, and I'm only talking about the kind women I know. (Western)

Apparently women are biologically programmed to be attracted to power......which I think is pushing it a bit, personally. I think maybe they are attracted to men of similar ambition to themselves....western women I mean.

My knowledge of the Thai sensibility is, as yet, not......well, just not.

Which is why I find your post interesting to read.

By the way, people appear apt to make ignorant assumptions and judgements about the Thai-farang mix no matter where you live. From what I've seen it seems to be a source of frustration for so many mixed couples and unlikely to change in a hurry. More's the pity.

But if you are happy with your chosen relationship, then good for you.

[Boo]

Hi RobertT,

No problem, thanks for the retraction, I am a little sensitive about this kind of thing at the moment, as so many guys here post something insulting in reference to western women just because they have had a couple of bad experiences at home. You can't tar everyone with the same brush & if they looked at themselves at little depper would realise that they were not completly innocent in the situation.

Anyway, enough of that.

I agree that a lot asian women look mostly for pratical reasons to be in a relationship, rather than for romatic reasons, not just in less wealthy families either, if you have been following the post made regarding dowries & such from an earlier post you'll see what I mean..

I think this is perfectly acceptable way, providing the guy in question is aware of it. The problem that I have noticed  among the guys that post on here, is that sometimes they are not aware of this being the case & truly beleive that the girls love them ONLY for them & once the girl & family start to make demands, feel let down & sometimes foolish.

If they were to go into the relationship thinking, as you & your wife have obviously done, that it would be beneficial to you both with reagrds to your wants & needs, i.e. you:care taker etc she: financial stability, then they would probably be a lot happier & more satified with the women that they meet.

I'm not saying that this would work for all of course but for the ones that are seriously looking for a wife & companion it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to have a more realistic outlook on what to expect & not be so shocked when their romatic asperations don't come up to scratch.

[robertT]

Boo and Karn...many thanks for your comments. I think that you both pretty much take my point regarding relationships and romantic love in Asia.

This PC business affects my judgement in a lot of ways. I am a three time loser with white girls and the last time was directly related (she was a law student at Berkeley in the early 80s...is was un-hip then to be heterosexual...etc). I also got involved with activities in Central America at the time and was appalled to find men huddling in corners whispering together as to pretend to take a more active role was non-PC. I get emotional about it...smoking now is not allowed in my favorite bar in Berkeley...sheesh. I love the place but I will never go back there to live.

To come full circle I have a friend that married an Indonesian woman about 10 years go,now with two kids and etc. and he has become fed up with the incessant demands for money without any reward or support. He has filed for divorce...the first case that I have heard of in a Asian/Western relationship. Have you folks ever heard of a falang divorcing their Thai wife for similar reasons? I know that in many cases the falang will simply walk away but this is different.

[Lancelot]

But to tell "whining PC white girls" to crawl back under their rocks is not only insulting it is also hypocrytical. If you read a lot of the posts from the men on this forum, you will find them to be "whining" as well!

Hey Board,

I have been lurking and reading the comments with interest and some suprise. Why do we farangs ( I am a farang guy from the USA) travel half way around the world to hurl "gender" insults at each other?!?

Sure farangs have bigger bodies (than Asians) and we (men and women) sometimes have a few extra pounds. So what? The last time I was in the US, I could not believe the number of "well nourished" people, including kids.

Anyway, In my opinion, Thais are a handsome people, so why shouldn't farangs and thais be attracted to each other? (assuming Thais like us in equal measure ) I am attracted to Thai ladies, so why shouldn't farang women have a Thai BF?

Anyway, I think I'll chill and let the board "brawl" continue

All the best,

Lancelot