Missing from the Conversation

[moontang]

On 6/12/2020 at 5:58 PM, Trillian said:

I don't think it is a global economy, I think every country has its own, it would be odd if the same goods cost the same price everywhere in the world.

 

You're showing prices for goods that are part of the US economy, a different currency and a different everything to Thailand. The US is a highly competitive market and it's also much much bigger. Thailand is far smaller, it restricts imports and it adds tariffs to most products, comparing the two is not apples and apples or even strawberries or whatevers.

Have you ever been to a US grocery store?  There are tons of imported items, but usually it is not obvious by looking at the price, because plenty are as low, if not lower, than domestic products.  The ad I posted is from a store located 10 miles from the Mexican border.  In the Winter, a large chunk of our veggies are grown abroad..but people aren't punished for buying Costa Rican bananas, or Mexican mangoes and limes.   I have paid with my Thai CC in the same store, so your statement about currency doesn't hold water, either.  Ever see the global cost of living surveys?  

[Trillian]

11 minutes ago, opalred said:

this govt borrowed huge from china and interest  payments are extraordinary / so need to keep baht strong

If you're referring to the borrowings for the high speed rail link, that was done in USD (at China's request) at a fixed exchange rate. That was one of the best lending deals that Thailand could have imagined since the exchange rate was fixed at a time when the Baht was very strong hence there is no foreign currency loan exposure and the interest rate is extremely low at under 2%. And the value of the loan is small, only THB 176 bill, that's USD 5.6 bill., peanuts.

[Trillian]

4 minutes ago, moontang said:

Have you ever been to a US grocery store?  There are tons of imported items, but usually it is not obvious by looking at the price, because plenty are as low, if not lower, than domestic products.  The ad I posted is from a store located 10 miles from the Mexican border.  In the Winter, a large chunk of our veggies are grown abroad..but people aren't punished for buying Costa Rican bananas, or Mexican mangoes and limes.   I have paid with my Thai CC in the same store, so your statement about currency doesn't hold water, either.  Ever see the global cost of living surveys?  

You say it's a global economy where prices should all be the same, that's nonsense, every economy is different, GDP per capita, PPP, currency values, labour costs, living costs, tariffs and import duties, they are all different hence the selling prices are all different.

[moontang]

9 minutes ago, Trillian said:

You say it's a global economy where prices should all be the same, that's nonsense, every economy is different, GDP per capita, PPP, currency values, labour costs, living costs, tariffs and import duties, they are all different hence the selling prices are all different.

I never said prices should be the same..but 1300% is a lot more markup than one would pay on the prison black market.  And yes, labor prices are different, and at that store, low for the US, workers would be making more in one hour than Villa markets pays per day.  

 

So you admit to have never been in a US grocery store?

[Trillian]

2 hours ago, moontang said:

I never said prices should be the same..but 1300% is a lot more markup than one would pay on the prison black market.  And yes, labor prices are different, and at that store, low for the US, workers would be making more in one hour than Villa markets pays per day.  

 

So you admit to have never been in a US grocery store?

I've lived in the US for 13 years so I've been inside plenty of US grocery stores, not that it's relevant to the subject. UK grocery stores are not dissimilar, they sell produce from many countries round the world, presumably that was the point you were going to make?

 

In your example about the cost of American strawberries in the US versus their cost at Villa in Thailand, I have to come back to the comparison of home grown strawberries versus imported, that's nothing like 1300%, I estimate it to be 250 baht per kilo versus 900 baht a kilo, given tarrifs and shipping that seems like an understandable difference.

[moontang]

16 minutes ago, Trillian said:

I've lived in the US for 13 years so I've been inside plenty of US grocery stores, not that it's relevant to the subject. UK grocery stores are not dissimilar, they sell produce from many countries round the world, presumably that was the point you were going to make?

 

In your example about the cost of American strawberries in the US versus their cost at Villa in Thailand, I have to come back to the comparison of home grown strawberries versus imported, that's nothing like 1300%, I estimate it to be 250 baht per kilo versus 900 baht a kilo, given tarrifs and shipping that seems like an understandable difference.

Thais aren't paying 250...more like 100..and it really isn't a big crop here, very seasonal.  Things that have to be transported cost more, and there are reasons for protectionism and tariffs, but there is no way one can justify large tariffs, when that certainly is not the case going the other way.  Trump simply asked for equal tariffs..seems reasonable, especially when the countries doing the cheating have account surpluses with the countries being cheated.  Perhaps, you have a logical explanation for them charging 6k for a pair of crosstrainers that sell for 1/5 in the US..that are made in Indonesia, meanwhile a blind eye is turned to rampant counterfeiting.

[Trillian]

59 minutes ago, moontang said:

Thais aren't paying 250...more like 100..and it really isn't a big crop here, very seasonal.  Things that have to be transported cost more, and there are reasons for protectionism and tariffs, but there is no way one can justify large tariffs, when that certainly is not the case going the other way.  Trump simply asked for equal tariffs..seems reasonable, especially when the countries doing the cheating have account surpluses with the countries being cheated.  Perhaps, you have a logical explanation for them charging 6k for a pair of crosstrainers that sell for 1/5 in the US..that are made in Indonesia, meanwhile a blind eye is turned to rampant counterfeiting.

We were in Samoeng in Chiang Mai Province during the strawberry season, its the main strawberry growing area, 250 baht a kilo for large strawberries at the local supermarket called Rimping....enough, please!

[Trillian]

"There’s a small stall selling fresh ripe strawberries sell 180 baht per pack and big size 220 baht per half kilo. It’s more expensive but the taste is superior".

 

If you're tired of picking this fruits the farm have already ripe strawberry selling on the shelves, so visitors have choice, 1 plastic pack half kilo prize 150 baht medium size and 200 for big size strawberries.

 

https://whampoah.com/chiangmaistrawberryfarm.html

[moontang]

6 hours ago, Trillian said:

We were in Samoeng in Chiang Mai Province during the strawberry season, its the main strawberry growing area, 250 baht a kilo for large strawberries at the local supermarket called Rimping....enough, please

250 at Rimping?  Simply more evidence that they are commonly sold for 100 everywhere else, including the stand by CMU, where  I Iived four years+.  

 

Sound more like the soft bigotry of low expectations.  The entire Thai crop is worth less than 20 million USD..while important to parts of CM and CR, it is a tiny amount.  The market would be better served by getting people to start eating them.  Look at blueberries, almost more of a ripoff than the strawberries, but the Thai blueberry harvest is zero...so why the tariffs and protectionism on one of the best antioxidants known to man?  It's hard enough to listen to the apologists, but don't try to justify draconian, unfair tariffs on healthy foods.  It doesn't help anything or anyone.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, Trillian said:

We were in Samoeng in Chiang Mai Province during the strawberry season, its the main strawberry growing area, 250 baht a kilo for large strawberries at the local supermarket called Rimping....enough, please!

Rimping is the most expensive store for fruit and veg in ChiangMai.

I was paying 60-80bht/kilo in the markets for nice local strawberries earlier this year.

[moontang]

53 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Rimping is the most expensive store for fruit and veg in ChiangMai.

I was paying 60-80bht/kilo in the markets for nice local strawberries earlier this year.

I think all the wealthy Thais shopping at the Nimmanhaemin RimPing are actually flagman followers from the Big Red.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Rimping is the most expensive store for fruit and veg in ChiangMai.

I was paying 60-80bht/kilo in the markets for nice local strawberries earlier this year.

No doubt.  I always bought my strawberries from the stands on Canal Road for about the same price.  Funny how he/she denigrates the other poster for using Villa as an example but then trots out Rimping to bolster his/her argument.

[Trillian]

I think this is probably the most inane discussion I've ever been in anywhere, somebody arguing that US imported strawberries should be cheaper in CM, because they're so inexpensive in the US. And I now find myself drawn into an argument about the true price of strawberries in Chiang Mai, competing against expert shoppers who doubtless know where to everything at the cheapest price. Do I want to be here I ask myself, surely there must be more deep and meaningful debates to be had somewhere, hmmm, difficult! OK I've decided, I'll and go watch paint dry instead!

[Trillian]

3 hours ago, Airalee said:

No doubt.  I always bought my strawberries from the stands on Canal Road for about the same price.  Funny how he/she denigrates the other poster for using Villa as an example but then trots out Rimping to bolster his/her argument.

Nobody denigrated anyone, it was a simple statement of fact! 

 

And is the forum really that small that you need to follow me around to every thread that I post in, making negative and bizzare remarks? There is a forum rule about not shadowing other posters you know and I have asked you politely several times not to do so!

[torturedsole]

On 6/12/2020 at 11:05 AM, Trillian said:

EDIT: I'm told by my colleague that local strawberries are 100 to 250 baht a kilo., based on the size, compared to 860 per kilo for CA strawberries, doesn't sound to unreasonable.

Even my Thai wife says Thai strawberries are <deleted>.  

[samsensam]

On 6/12/2020 at 10:44 AM, Trillian said:

What do you expect, a top end niche grocery store selling specialty imported products, in the capital, imported products that are subject to import tax and tariffs to protect the home market.

 

mostly not specialty products, just run of the mill branded goods. prices a specialty though.

[Trillian]

2 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

mostly not specialty products, just run of the mill branded goods. prices a specialty though.

Sure, but posters are losing sight of the fact this is Thailand where 99% of grocery shopping is done in local markets, Big C or Makro. Anywhere that sells loads of imported goods, like Villa et all is niche and top end plus it's not as though there's such places everywhere in Thailand.

[Dante99]

33 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Sure, but posters are losing sight of the fact this is Thailand where 99% of grocery shopping is done in local markets, Big C or Makro. Anywhere that sells loads of imported goods, like Villa et all is niche and top end plus it's not as though there's such places everywhere in Thailand.

What does that have to do with the price of the Baht?

[Trillian]

24 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

What does that have to do with the price of the Baht?

Absolutely zilch, thankyou for raising the point, I was hoping somebody might, eventually!

[Dante99]

14 minutes ago, Trillian said:

Absolutely zilch, thankyou for raising the point, I was hoping somebody might, eventually!

So you and Moontang should just get a room and cary on with each other in private.  Then the rest of us can consider Gonzo's questions.

[Trillian]

4 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

So you and Moontang should just get a room and cary on with each other in private.  Then the rest of us can consider Gonzo's questions.

You mean like post 4!

[Trillian]

For John's benefit in the OP:

 

USD has weakened because of the high spending on covid19 measures, civil unrest and the potential for a second wave are likely to have been additional factors - markets are saying that the US won't be back to normal for some time. Rather than hold USD investors have chosen to invest in Asia with some USD 185 mill flooding into Thailand during the first week of June alone, similar often much larger amounts of flooded into other countries in the region. That has resulted in USD being sold and THB being purchased which has pushed up the value of the Baht. 

[Airalee]

9 hours ago, Trillian said:

Nobody denigrated anyone, it was a simple statement of fact! 

 

And is the forum really that small that you need to follow me around to every thread that I post in, making negative and bizzare remarks? There is a forum rule about not shadowing other posters you know and I have asked you politely several times not to do so!

Oh please.  Get over yourself.  Every time I legitimately challenge your disingenuous posts (which isn’t all that often) you throw a temper tantrum and accuse me of stalking you, abusing you etc etc. Stating that I make “negative and bizarre remarks” is just flat out dishonest.   If you don’t like my posts you are free to block me so you don’t have to read them.  I am far from the only person who calls you out on your intellectual dishonesty so it appears that you are the one with the problem.

[rvaviator]

On 6/12/2020 at 6:24 PM, dingdongrb said:

......and I thought 39 AUD was a little too much for a kilo of celery  ????

 

 

but but ..... its Organic ! ????

 

[dingdongrb]

49 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

but but ..... its Organic ! ????

 

Certified by who, Rimping?  LOL

 

 

[talahtnut]

The Dollar, Pound, and Euro are

Micky Mouse debt paper heading

for extinction.

Dump 'em into assets mate.

 

[Trillian]

When a Thai importer goes to buy a product in say the US, Australia or anywhere else, perhaps it's strawberries, maybe it's celery or maybe it's something totally different, do you suppose they say to the overseas supplier, I'll pay you xx Baht per whatever, I seriously doubt it? Export bills are settled mostly in USD, that's the currency of international trade. Plus it's a long standing precedent that the seller names the price, in the case of the strawberries the US seller would declare a price in Dollars, perhaps there's some bargaining that takes place but the currency of the trade doesn't suddenly change.

 

So when the export deal is agreed the seller has got a price in USD they are happy with, the importer has a price in USD they can then convert to local currency, a price that must include taxes, tariffs, profit etc. Almost certainly that product and its price is then passed down the line to a series of middle men who add their own margin on top until such time as the end retailer adds his also.

 

The problem here is not the strength of THB, the problem is a) Thai import tariffs and b) the system of middle men and markup, we see that in all forms of imported goods, especially medicines and pharmaceuticals. Ask yourself, if the Baht were trading at 34 per USD would the retail sales price change that much from when it was trading at 30, of course not. The product price is high because it's considered to be a premium luxury import, this is not a currency strength issue in any shape or form.

[Trillian]

3 hours ago, Airalee said:

Oh please.  Get over yourself.  Every time I legitimately challenge your disingenuous posts (which isn’t all that often) you throw a temper tantrum and accuse me of stalking you, abusing you etc etc. Stating that I make “negative and bizarre remarks” is just flat out dishonest.   If you don’t like my posts you are free to block me so you don’t have to read them.  I am far from the only person who calls you out on your intellectual dishonesty so it appears that you are the one with the problem.

I'm perfectly happy with any challenges to the facts in the topic, even the conclusions, but do try and get them right from time to time! And leave out the personal remarks, they are not welcome or wanted.

 

Intellectual dishonesty.......! That's almost funny.

[Trillian]

I see we've degraded any potential for a useful debate to insults and sad emoticon clicking by non-involved parties, how sad is that...lost for thoughts and words it seems!

[Dante99]

23 hours ago, Trillian said:

Absolutely zilch, thankyou for raising the point, I was hoping somebody might, eventually!

Yet you continue with your off topic blah blah.  No wonder people lable you sad.