Online Application for UK Visa

[KhaoYai]

In the past I've either helped with or submitted many UK Visa applications - but only one of them was online as far as I can remember.  The current online application seems to have been simplified since then and I'm not convinced that's a good thing.

 

For example, it used to be the case that if you were acting as a sponsor they made a big thing of proving that your relationship was genuine.  Part of that was photos of you and the applicant together - in fact I was once hauled over the coals for only supplying 4 photos for a Visit Visa (I subsequently sent them 100 and the application was successful) - now they don't ask for any! They also used to state that sponsors should provide 6 months bank statements - now the don't specify any amount.

 

I've almost completed a Visit Visa application for my wife and so far there doesn't seem to be any requirement to prove your relationship at all.  In fact the guidance notes specifically state that you should not send photos.  There's no request for a marriage certificate and the guidance notes do not state how many bank statements should be sent. I suppose that when I finally complete the application, a list of required documents (including a marriage certificate) might be sent?

 

What I don't want is for the application to be refused stating 'I am not convinced that your relationship with your sponsor is genuine and subsisting therefore......' or 'you have failed to supply sufficient evidence of your finances'.

 

The guidance also states that all documents not in English must be accompanied by certified translations - it was previously the case that they could be in English or Thai without requiring translations. The Embassy in Bangkok still allows Thai and English because they have Thai staff - given that the application is submitted to VFS, I don't see why Thai is not acceptable.

 

Again, the guidance states that bank statements must be either originals or that online print outs must be stamped by the bank. I've seen mixed answers as to whether online statements are acceptable without the stamp but in any case, getting documents to Thailand at the moment is very difficult. The UK Post Office say they're not currently delivering to Thailand and my wife tried to send something to me by DHL who told her the same.

 

I'd appreciate some current information on these matters.

Edited June 12, 2020 by KhaoYai

[torturedsole]

Follow the guidance and you'll be fine. Stressful time but try not to overcomplicate matters.  

[KhaoYai]

36 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

Follow the guidance and you'll be fine. Stressful time but try not to overcomplicate matters.  

The guidance doesn't give the answers - example, how do I get bank statements to Bangkok when there's no post? The same goes for translations.

 

Remember, there's no right of appeal for a Visitor Visa.

 

I also find it hard to believe that they have gone from wanting a lot of proof of a relationship to none.

Edited June 12, 2020 by KhaoYai

[yeahbutif]

All designed to trip you up. More is better then less 

[theoldgit]

You don't say what sort of visa your wife is applying for, I'm assuming it's a Visit Visa, and you seem to be in the UK.

 

I'm assuming that you've already read publication regarding the documents that are either required or advised?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visitor-visa-guide-to-supporting-documents/guide-to-supporting-documents-visiting-the-uk

 

It's been some years since photos were not accepted, I suspect that was as a result of photoshop, people sendinf far too many, maybe 100 or so, or the fact that supporting evidence is now scanned.

 

As to the language of supporting evidence, it's been a requirement to have documents not in English, or Welsh, to be translated, applications are processed in the UK and there are probably very few Thai readers there, VFS staff don't decide on the application. 

 

As you point out, applications are submitted online, and whilst, I understand, VFS may check original documents in the checking process I'm not 100% sure

 

There's nothing to prevent you submitting the application from the UK,even upload all the supporting docs, providing your wife can access everything.

 

I have received mail from the UK recently, the Royal Mail website says,

Royal Mail said:

  

Update: 11 May 2020
Mail despatches to Thailand have now resumed, and we’ll prioritise the processing and shipment of mail held during the recent period of suspension. Delays will still be evident as in-country restrictions remain in place to prevent the spread of Coronavirus.

 

 

So you may wish to double check.

[KhaoYai]

6 hours ago, theoldgit said:

You don't say what sort of visa your wife is applying for, I'm assuming it's a Visit Visa,

 

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I've almost completed a Visit Visa application for my wife

OK?

 

Yes, I'm aware that supporting documents can be uploaded but the originals are to be handed in to VFS. I note your comments on the Post Office resuming deliveries to Thailand. I'll check on that, thanks.

 

As for translations, I know that VFS staff don't make decisions - neither do embassy staff in Bangkok but they check Thai documents, Thai divorce certificates for example.  It wouldn't be a massive step for VFS staff to simply confirm the names on a marriage certificate.

 

At the moment, I have no idea what documentation is required. The guidance doesn't specify a marriage certificate, how many bank statements etc. etc. There is so little detail compared to previous applications - it seems to be almost guaranteeing failure. Yes, you could say that a marriage certificate is obvious but based on previous exeperience, I would say photos are a pre-requisite but they're not.  I would not be difficult for the application to be clear in stating what documents are required for each type of application.

 

It could be that a list of required documents is sent once the application is submitted - that's something I'd like to know.

[Tony M]

The reason that there is no list of required documents is because there are no specified requirements in the immigration rules for visit visa applications, other than a passport. Settlement visa applications and Points Based System applications require certain specified documents, and will normally be refused if those documents are not submitted. Visit visa applications, however, are decided (or are meant to be decided) on the balance of probabilities, and that really means submitting evidence that will tip the decision in favour of issue rather than refusal. I'm not going to get into any arguments about the merits of using agents to assist in applications, but sometimes it can help as they have experience in what documents are, or might be, needed for a successful application. It's up to you what documents you submit to support your application, but you can see, from the information that you have given in your posts above, that some documents will be more useful than others for "proving" any statements made by you or the applicant.

 

Original documents are not required by VFS. It wouldn't make sense to require original documents for scanning by VFS when you can self-upload documents from home or anywhere else without VFS seeing them.  It does not state anywhere in the "guidance" that original documents have to be handed to VFS.

 

The guidance to visit visa applicants is pretty vague, but the UKVI seem to like it that way. It makes it easier for them to refuse a visa, of course. 

[KhaoYai]

5 hours ago, Tony M said:

The guidance to visit visa applicants is pretty vague, but the UKVI seem to like it that way. It makes it easier for them to refuse a visa, of course. 

I agree with that statement. I've always said that Visit Visas can be a lottery and now it seems even moreso.  Having been told on a past application that the ECO found it hard to believe that I only had 4 photos (all clearly of different dates) from a 4 year relationship it is incredible that they now want no photos at all. Add to that the fact that the differing dates covered all 4 years (with proof), were accompanied by flight stubs from a trip to Singapore together, copies of my passport entry stamps with corresponding dates and that I never said I only had 4 photos. Clearly visit visas have never been easy but at least in the past you could contact the ECM and ask for a review.

 

My wife's application is genuine but if it fails, with no right of appeal the only recourse is to deal with the reasons for refusal and pay another £95 to apply again.  That's crazy in my view as if it was possible to supply all the details, a second application would not be necessary.  There may well be an opportunity to give additional details but at this stage I just don't know what documents are required, how many they want and if it is possible to supply supplementary information. By the time I do know, the application will have been submitted and I may find that nothing extra can be sent.

 

I remember a Tony on another forum who was an ex ECO.....you?

 

I could be wrong but I'm sure I read somewhere that if you uploaded documents to VFS, the originals would have to be provided at the Biometrics appointment - I'll try to find that. Whatever, on the basis that you are correct Tony and VFS don't require originals - that conflicts with the general advice from UKVI which is:

 

Guidance

Guide to supporting documents: visiting the UK

Updated 6 June 2019

Contents

1. 1. Documents you must provide – all visitors
2. 2. Other documents you may want to provide – all visitors
3. 3. Additional documents for specific types of visitors
4. 4. Documents you should not send unless specifically requested

 

This guidance explains the documents you may need to provide in support of your application to visit the UK.

All documents must be originals and not photocopies. Submission of these documents does not guarantee that your application will be successful and you should bear this in mind when making any bookings.

If you submit a document that is not in English or Welsh, it must be accompanied by a full translation that can be independently verified by the Home Office. Each translated document must contain:

• confirmation from the translator that it is an accurate translation of the original document
• the date of the translation
• the translator’s full name and signature
• the translator’s contact details

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visitor-visa-guide-to-supporting-documents/guide-to-supporting-documents-visiting-the-uk#section-3

 

So, again on the basis that you are correct - there is clearly a conflict between VFS's requirements and those of the UKVI. Its hardly surprising that people get confused. What do they want, originals or uploads? A scan is easy to fake.

 

On reading VFS's advice, it appears that once the application is submitted and a biometrics appointment made, a checklist detailing the required documents will be sent. Would you or any other readers happen to know if it is possible to send any additional documents at that time?  It used to be the case that a concise supporting letter from a sponsor could be helpful to the ECO and explain matters that it is not possible to write on the actual application. I don't even know if that's possible with the current application format.

 

As I stated in my original post, I've been involved in quite a lot of visa applications of all types in the past. I always thought that things improved as time goes by through experience and technology.  My view of the new style of online application is that it has been designed by an accountant. Ann accountant seeking to turn UKVI into a money making machine that fails to cover any non-standard types of application instead of a process that facilitates genuine tourism to the UK. To my mind these changes are a step backwards.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by KhaoYai

[HerbyJFlash]

At the risk of sounding very thick...

 

How do you submit original documents? In my case my partner is in Thailand . How would I submit her passport to UKVI? She would have to send to me and then I send to them ?

Edited June 13, 2020 by HerbyJFlash

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, HerbyJFlash said:

At the risk of sounding very thick...

 

How do you submit original documents? In my case my partner is in Thailand . How would I submit her passport to UKVI? She would have to send to me and then I send to them ?

That is the crux of my questions.  Tony above says that if you upload them when requested following submission of the application, you don't need the originals.  The VFS website states that they can be uploaded or the originals scanned.  I seem to remember that when online applications began you could scan and send but the originals had to be provided to SMS and although I can't be sure, I think I've seen that again recently.

 

However, there is no ambiguity in the UKVI's guidance that states:

 

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

All documents must be originals and not photocopies.

In the past, I remember that they would not accept online bank statements full stop. Then they changed that to the bank must stamp them as genuine. Now I'm unsure on them.

 

As regards your partner's passport. She provides her passport details as part of the application but it must be taken to VFS in person when going for the biometrics appointment.

[Tony M]

Yes, the UKVI "guidance" conflicts with the VFS guidance, but that is not unusual as the published guidance often conflicts with itself. For example, in this VFS guidance for settlement applications by post only (not for visit visa applications):

 

Step-by-step guide to sending documents for scanning by post.

Step One.

Arrange all documents in accordance with the following instructions:

          i. The first page of the visa application form showing the GWF number must be included with the documents to be sent. This is a mandatory document.

         ii. All pages should be A4 size only

         iii.  Do NOT post original documents, only legible colour photocopies of the originals should be posted. There will be an additional charge for coloured photocopies to be taken if not provided.

 

What does iii) mean ?  An additional charge for VFS to colour copy documents that you have been told not to provide ?

 

 Back to your queries. You can take the originals to VFS for scanning, and VFS should note that originals were provided, but it is not a requirement, and VFS don't always stamp the copy to say that originals were seen by them. Logically, if originals were a requirement, then self-uploading would lead to refusal. Your question about when documents can be submitted is also answered here. This is the current VFS guidance in visit visa applications (my emphasis) :

 

Non-settlement applications

 

Customers applying for a non-settlement visa have two options available for submitting their supporting documents.

After you have applied through GOV.UK for your visa, you can upload your documents yourself when you book your biometrics appointment online with VFS Global. If you do not have all your documents immediately to hand, you can log back into your account and continue to upload documents until the day before your biometrics appointment.

If you wish to self-upload your supporting documents, you should refer to the document checklist you received as part of your online application on GOV.UK, so you know which documents are needed, and follow the instructions on the document upload pages. You are responsible for uploading supporting documents for the correct category, so please follow the document upload instructions carefully.

Alternatively, you can bring your supporting documents and use our Document Scanning Assistance service at the Visa Application Centre; where we will scan them for you and send them to UK Visas and Immigration (fee usually applies).

Both processes enable you to keep your supporting documents during the application process. For Settlement Visas supporting documents guidance, please see the additional options below.

Customers applying under the Windrush scheme or making an application for Family Reunion under Part 11 of the Immigration Rules are eligible for free Document Scanning at the Visa Application Centre.  All other customers will need to pay for this service by adding Document Scanning Assistance to the basket when they book their appointment.

You can submit photocopies of documents for scanning/upload, but they must be clear, legible, preferably in colour and A4 size.

 

 

You are, of course, correct, and this "system" is perfect for forgers and the submission of non-genuine documents.

 

A supporting letter from the sponsor is still needed, although it isn't, of course a requirement. Bearing in mind that an ECO has very little time (often between 5 and 8 minutes) to decide an application, a letter giving bullet-point info is a great help.

 

And, yes, I am probably the same Tony, and I was an ECO in a former life.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Tony M

[KhaoYai]

11 hours ago, Tony M said:

A supporting letter from the sponsor is still needed, although it isn't, of course a requirement. Bearing in mind that an ECO has very little time (often between 5 and 8 minutes) to decide an application, a letter giving bullet-point info is a great help

Thank you for your input Tony.  I will of course keep my letter short and bullet pointed. If you remember me from the other forum, you will know that I always advocated keeping things concise and clear. Anything more than one, paragraphed or better still bulleted, side of A4 is, in my opinion, likely to switch the ECO into yawning mode.

[Tony M]

28 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Thank you for your input Tony.  I will of course keep my letter short and bullet pointed. If you remember me from the other forum, you will know that I always advocated keeping things concise and clear. Anything more than one, paragraphed or better still bulleted, side of A4 is, in my opinion, likely to switch the ECO into yawning mode.

You're right about a concise letter. Mind you, I'm on Page 9 of a settlement visa application letter at the moment !