Americans won't be in any travel bubble agreements anytime soon!

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

You are confusing age specific case fatality with the age breakdown among those who die. Two very different things which is what I was trying to explain.

 

Old people and people with underlying chronic health problems unquestionably have a higher risk of dying should they get COVID. But they tend to be much less active/exposed to crowded situations so there are fewer cases among them.

 

Younger healthy people have much lower case fatality rate but far more of them get infected,

 

So the deaths include more young and healthy people than the age specific fatality rates might lead you to expect and the widespread perception that only the old/chronically ill are vulnerable to severe COVID, and that young healthy people will al,ways recover just fine,  is untrue.

Ok, I did miss your point and I do see it now.  Nevertheless, in terms of actual fatalities the number is still very low.  I think it's important because whilst the media might typically present young people as reckless and blithe to the dangers of covid19, my own experience is quite different.  I have even met a couple who equate covid19 with probable death.  Certainly, the media and health organizations have a tendency to both amplify or magnify statistics, and my impression is it's much the same in the USA.

[Jingthing]

International confidence that the USA can effectively cope with the pandemic? Not so much. 

 

So how did things get this bad? I think we know. 

 

The content about international perceptions which is related to travel restrictions is later in the article. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/06/25/face-masks-america-divided/

 

 

How the split over face masks sums up America’s chaotic coronavirus response

Edited June 25, 2020 by Jingthing

[Pattaya46]

Just heard on radio that now,

Half of all Covid-19 deaths worldwide came from Americas. 

[Kwaynoom]

On 6/19/2020 at 11:15 PM, Mac98 said:

Americans can't even get into Canada.

I'm an American and I'm traveling to Canada in a few days. You are painting with a very broad brush my friend.

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Just heard on radio that now,

Half of all Covid-19 deaths worldwide came from Americas. 

Last I heard it was about 25 percent from 4 percent of the world population which is painfully bad enough. 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Kwaynoom said:

I'm an American and I'm traveling to Canada in a few days. You are painting with a very broad brush my friend.

It's a very broad border.

[Jingthing]

On the probable EU ban of Americans (and Russians, Brazilians, etc.) they're reportedly trying to be objective about it even though they definitely have some political scores to settle with the American leadership. The idea is countries with higher infection rates than the EU are out, but lower are in. China is lower than the EU so that's embarrassing for the US. The US rate is much higher.

 

Any bans are about new people coming in, not people already there. So all those Americans already in Paris can relax.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Jingthing

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

6 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Just heard on radio that now,

Half of all Covid-19 deaths worldwide came from Americas. 

Last I heard it was about 25 percent from 4 percent of the world population which is painfully bad enough. 

25%? They talk on about 240'000 deaths in Americas and 480'000 worldwide.

 

BTW soon half a million worldwide, and still increasing fast. 

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

25%? They talk on about 240'000 deaths in Americas and 480'000 worldwide.

 

BTW soon half a million worldwide, and still increasing fast. 

That US number is a current projection for October. It's about half that now. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if the percentage increases but on the other hand it's obvious that Brazil is undercounting a lot, for example. 

[Pattaya46]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That US number is a current projection for October. It's about half that now. //

The 50% was for Americas, not for USA only.

Big death countries are USA, Brazil & Mexico

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

The 50% was for Americas, not for USA only.

Big death countries are USA, Brazil & Mexico

Yeah that sounds right. The Americas are not a country though. There are some countries in the Americans that have done well such as Uruguay.

[daveAustin]

US would have suffered even with a solid system in place as many of its cities are MAJOR global multicultural business hubs (with lots of old folk); reason why UK was also hit hard through alpha++ London. Trump is a nob but it's convenient to blame him. The aussies think they've done a really good job etc, but location, pop density, sun (possibly) and being a mini-hub saved them. This is still early days of course and it'll rip through the world eventually unless viable vaccine is found. But, yes, having a US passport could be an issue short-term. 

[Jingthing]

The idea of walls on US borders now has a whole new meaning. 

It used to be a joke that the wall was to keep Americans in rather than foreigners out. 

 

This article highlights the reality that to the greater world its irrelevant that some US regions have got things under control.

 

A US passport is a US passport. The state does not matter. 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/americas-summer-of-isolation/613423/

 

Trump Turns the U.S. Into a Pariah

Other countries are judging America by its sickest states and most reckless politicians.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

15 hours ago, daveAustin said:

US would have suffered even with a solid system in place as many of its cities are MAJOR global multicultural business hubs (with lots of old folk); reason why UK was also hit hard through alpha++ London. Trump is a nob but it's convenient to blame him. The aussies think they've done a really good job etc, but location, pop density, sun (possibly) and being a mini-hub saved them. This is still early days of course and it'll rip through the world eventually unless viable vaccine is found. But, yes, having a US passport could be an issue short-term. 

Suffered yes.

At this horrific level no.

Germany is also a global hub.

Now they're part of the group that's fixing to ban Americans.

Not buying your excuse.
The USA failed and failed badly.

That would be bad enough if there was a major correction right now from the U.S. president to finally face the reality. But it's the exact opposite. It's denial city and wearing masks are about being politically correct. This is an atrocious situation. 

[Jingthing]

Well I was wrong about U.S. state travel restrictions between states.

That is happening to some degree. People coming in by air from the poorly performing states being forced to quarantine when traveling to New Jersey for example, a better performing state currently.

Some attempts to enforce by airlines and hotels.

But people can still just drive in of course and stay with friends and relatives.

[tomazbodner]

Americans could be in Travel Bubble, called COVID Alliance with the UK. No need for quarantine. None is worse than the other.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Americans could be in Travel Bubble, called COVID Alliance with the UK. No need for quarantine. None is worse than the other.

Yeah that's another kind of potential bubble that has been mentioned before here. How about Brazil and Russia?

[checkered flag]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The idea of walls on US borders now has a whole new meaning. 

It used to be a joke that the wall was to keep Americans in rather than foreigners out. 

 

This article highlights the reality that to the greater world its irrelevant that some US regions have got things under control.

 

A US passport is a US passport. The state does not matter. 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/americas-summer-of-isolation/613423/

 

Trump Turns the U.S. Into a Pariah

Other countries are judging America by its sickest states and most reckless politicians.

Esp the state of NY , Cal, and Wash.

[Jingthing]

Well, the talked about travel ban of Americans to the E.U. is now close to official. 

It would be shocking if they decide differently. 

Now the question is when does that change? Months? Or years? 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/europe-prepares-to-reopen-to-foreign-travelers-but-americans-dont-even-figure-into-the-discussion/2020/06/26/6232dff8-b7b2-11ea-9a1d-d3db1cbe07ce_story.html

 

Quote

Europe prepares to reopen to foreign travelers, but Americans don’t even figure into the discussion

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Well well well.

A loud vote of no confidence in the U.S. virus response from the world. 

Feeling exceptional lately?

It's no longer Yankee go home. Now it's Yankee don't come in the first place. 

Did it have to be this way? Of course not. But it is.

 

 

Quote

Restrictions leave US travelers high and dry

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/us-citizens-international-travel-problems-covid-19/index.html

 

[Lacessit]

There's a fair percentage of Americans who want to be isolationist. They are getting what they wished for.

[checkered flag]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There's a fair percentage of Americans who want to be isolationist. They are getting what they wished for.

Good. Especially good to keep the Chinese and far right groups out.

[Lacessit]

25 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

Good. Especially good to keep the Chinese and far right groups out.

Too late for the far right groups, they are already in the White House.

[Mitkof Island]

It's all a hoax ! That creature who thinks he is President and his butt buddy says so. He wins the election in November forget about Southeast Asia for at least four years or more. Maybe you can write him a letter thanking him.

[Tounge Thaied]

20 minutes ago, Mitkof Island said:

I will pass this on to the family's of the 130,000 dead and rising daily its all in their heads. All those news clips in the hospitals were filmed on a stage in Hollywood by the dark government.

You do realize that many of those 130,000 dead were going to die anyway. In America, doctors are required to put a "R/O" (rule out) diagnosis of covid if they have symptoms. Many are never given a proper post mortem to validate if the patient ACTUALLY died of covid and not there heart disease, or their cancer, or there COPD etc. etc. 

[warcy]

On 6/17/2020 at 6:15 PM, Thailand said:

Not even with China?

That's like putting two fighting fishes inside the same bowl.

[Jingthing]

 Here is an interesting cultural (and also current political) theory for why the USA has done so exceptionally badly. For discussion purposes. A key concept here is that the U.S. response has been limited by an extreme culture of individualism ("freedom" -- Goddam it!) while the nature of pandemic is the need for a collective response. Of course there is not just one reason this happened. I see it as kind of a perfect storm.

 

Also mentioned here which I think is very relevant is the nature of the American health care system where if you get very sick and are lucky enough not to die, there is still a quite good chance you will be financially ruined. Medical bills is main cause of bankruptcy in the U.S. the last time I checked. That's something that most "advanced" western countries don't share. Again, an "exceptional" American aspect of pain with this.

 

Yet so many are willing even eager to rush out and risk it all, their money and their life, to do fun non-essential stuff in the middle of a pandemic.

 

 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/06/americas-pandemic-not-over-yet.html

Quote

 

Americans Are Sick of the Pandemic. The Pandemic Is Not Sick of Us.

Our capacity to respond to crises has been subtly chipped away, but this crisis is here to stay.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Jingthing

[keemapoot]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Well well well.

A loud vote of no confidence in the U.S. virus response from the world. 

Feeling exceptional lately?

It's no longer Yankee go home. Now it's Yankee don't come in the first place. 

Did it have to be this way? Of course not. But it is.

 

 

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/us-citizens-international-travel-problems-covid-19/index.html

 

This exact shunning of the US from all countries that handled Covid responsibly will be used heavily by the Biden campaign to show just how badly Trump bungled the Covid response - an absolutely epic failure.

[metisdead]

Conspiracy post and the replies have been removed.

[checkered flag]

5 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

You realise that people die all the time from all sorts of things, right?

 

Did you look at how many people normally die over this period (die from any reason) and see if this virus increased the average number of deaths significantly?

 

Those that die if this virus are mostly on deaths doorstep already, very elderly and infirm or have seriously life threatening pre existing conditions.....and the virus is just speeding them along....to meet Jesus and live in eternal bliss....as most Americans believe happens when we die

 

 

Exactly true. The true cause of death from covid would be presumptive deaths from covid minus normal deaths for specific groups. Postmortem exams (autopsies)are not common in the US and are only done in special cases. Civid is included as an underlying factor but many of these patients would die from other causes anyway. It could accelerate the process (maybe). Compared to other  countries the US over-counts these cases for various reasons. 

Direct supervision of public health and public health decision is by individual states not the federal government. The federal government only controls things like immigration, interstate commerce but not shutting down business and restricting people. Stay at home, social distancing etc are state functions. Some state like NY and California have done a poor job but others have been OK. 

The protests and related far left activities have caused a sever disruption in public health and a rise in the infection rate. Because of preconceive bias against the police departments, bringing order when rioting and looting broke out was prevented and contributed to this public health disaster.

The aim of the far left is and has been to create anarchy.