Imm Authority's Subjective No-mercy Decision

[brahmburgers]

My 1 year type O visa was about to expire. I wanted to get the 90 day extension so was carefully planning to come back before the expiration. It didn't work out. I kept referring to the visa re-entry date that was clearly stamped in the blue box - which clearly indicated April 21. I may have also made the mistake by asking the immigration officer politely that I request the 90 day extension (which may have made him more diligent in looking for ways to trip me up).

Anyhow, he only gave me 30 days - which also bolloxes up any chance for me to renew my 1 year type O visa within Thailand. He claims the date on the original smudged visa says April 18 - so that would make me one day late. I didn't know to refer to that date. The hand lettered date is underlined and looks like April 28 (which would make me OK with my plan). I took the passport and showed the visa stamp to other immigration officers in the office. The 2nd and 3rd officers to look at it said it was April 28th. The subsequent workers said "April 18" because by that time the original officer was shouting to everyone to say "April 18 !" in order to vindicate his decision.

So it goes. That simple oversight will cost me a minimum of 65,000 baht and at least 2 weeks of hassles having to return to my home country - even though I reside/retired here. Rule of thumb: if there are options of decisions, one of which will screw-up the foreigner, the Thai immigration authority will opt for the screw-up choice.

[lopburi3]

I am trying to translate this as we go:

You arrived back on the 19th but your previous permitted to stay stamp was dated the 21st and you believed that was your visa expiration date?

Your real visa expiration date was the 18th or the 28th depending on who reads it? What was the issue date, or is that unreadable also? That would confirm which date is correct if it is readable or you recall.

You asked for a 90 day extension but really wanted a 90 day permitted to stay stamp and feel this was taken as a negative by officer.

You received a 30 day permitted to stay stamp as a visa exempt entry.

If you are over 50 and have the 800k/65/combination you can visit immigration next week to obtain non immigrant visa and then extend. Only extra cost would be 2,000 baht. If you have funds of 800k in bank accounts somewhere you likely can obtain a multi entry non immigrant O visa in Singapore. If both these are non starters perhaps Oz would be a cheaper alternative.

[OneeyedJohn]

Going over Immigration officers heads is ill advised.

Which office?

[Krub]

My 1 year type O visa was about to expire. I wanted to get the 90 day extension so was carefully planning to come back before the expiration. It didn't work out. I kept referring to the visa re-entry date that was clearly stamped in the blue box - which clearly indicated April 21. I may have also made the mistake by asking the immigration officer politely that I request the 90 day extension (which may have made him more diligent in looking for ways to trip me up).

Anyhow, he only gave me 30 days - which also bolloxes up any chance for me to renew my 1 year type O visa within Thailand. He claims the date on the original smudged visa says April 18 - so that would make me one day late. I didn't know to refer to that date. The hand lettered date is underlined and looks like April 28 (which would make me OK with my plan). I took the passport and showed the visa stamp to other immigration officers in the office. The 2nd and 3rd officers to look at it said it was April 28th. The subsequent workers said "April 18" because by that time the original officer was shouting to everyone to say "April 18 !" in order to vindicate his decision.

So it goes. That simple oversight will cost me a minimum of 65,000 baht and at least 2 weeks of hassles having to return to my home country - even though I reside/retired here. Rule of thumb: if there are options of decisions, one of which will screw-up the foreigner, the Thai immigration authority will opt for the screw-up choice.

Sorry tp hear that

If your stay date is actually April 28 (determined by your entry date) maybe you can have it corrected at immigration office some have done it.

Which border was that ?

[marquess]

My 1 year type O visa was about to expire. I wanted to get the 90 day extension so was carefully planning to come back before the expiration. It didn't work out. I kept referring to the visa re-entry date that was clearly stamped in the blue box - which clearly indicated April 21. I may have also made the mistake by asking the immigration officer politely that I request the 90 day extension (which may have made him more diligent in looking for ways to trip me up).

Anyhow, he only gave me 30 days - which also bolloxes up any chance for me to renew my 1 year type O visa within Thailand. He claims the date on the original smudged visa says April 18 - so that would make me one day late. I didn't know to refer to that date. The hand lettered date is underlined and looks like April 28 (which would make me OK with my plan). I took the passport and showed the visa stamp to other immigration officers in the office. The 2nd and 3rd officers to look at it said it was April 28th. The subsequent workers said "April 18" because by that time the original officer was shouting to everyone to say "April 18 !" in order to vindicate his decision.

So it goes. That simple oversight will cost me a minimum of 65,000 baht and at least 2 weeks of hassles having to return to my home country - even though I reside/retired here. Rule of thumb: if there are options of decisions, one of which will screw-up the foreigner, the Thai immigration authority will opt for the screw-up choice.

I could just imagine him, screaming that out, all the louder knowing that he was wrong, this kind of nonsense is common in Thailand.

[brahmburgers]

I was at Mae Sai. Lopburi is always knowledgable and helpful (I'm mean it sincerely).

I can get proof of the the money requirement - methinks I'll go 4 hours down to Chiang Mai to see whether I can fix this. I'm not a big fan of self-affliction, though am perhaps quixotic to a fault. I noticed a new topic heading today (haven't read it yet) asking whether there's an appeal provision. I have the same question, but rather doubt it. It's like the police predicament: If one officer makes a call, then all the other officers are compelled to automatically agree with him, regardless of what's right or wrong.

I was driving with a farang once, and we got pulled over for making an incorrect turn. The farang friend pulled out a tattered little card and showed it to the cop - who waved us on immediatly. Apparently the little card was something related to the royal family, as sort of 'get out of jail free' card. Where can I get a card like that? Imagine if we all had a little 'royal' card that would excuse us from infractions throughout the kingdom?!

I know, I digress and wander from the topic.

The original facts are: there were TWO visa expiration dates on my passport. One was smudged non-readable on the original visa, and the other was clear on the visa re-entry date. I had predicated my all-important border crossing with the re-entry stamp. The problem-causing officer chose to use the other date - which made me 1 day late and will cause me mega problems. the more I gently pleaded with him to show me mercy, the more he grinned at the thought of majorly inconveniencing a farang.

I conservatively estimate it will cost me 75,000 baht and hundreds of hours to get back on track. Major bummer for me. Hopefully this will help other farang avoid the same pitfall.

It's like: to use a computer you got to be a computer technician. To drive a car, you got to be a mechanical whiz. Now add: to do a successful border crossing and stay within the law, you essentially have to be an well-versed expert on the intricate details of Thai immigration policy, a la Mr. Lopburi. If I had one question for the top tamale in the Imm department, it would be: "Why make things so difficult?" ...to which, he would probably just grin and chuckle.

[LivinLOS]

I conservatively estimate it will cost me 75,000 baht and hundreds of hours to get back on track. Major bummer for me. Hopefully this will help other farang avoid the same pitfall.

This is what I dont understand... If you were going to extend in country then you must fulfill the non O requirements.. If thats the case you can get another non O single or even possibly multi in Malaysia or Sing.. A couple of days and a few 1000 baht..

There is even possibility to change a visa exempt stamp in country I have read.

[Sunny Valentine]

It's like: to use a computer you got to be a computer technician. To drive a car, you got to be a mechanical whiz. Now add: to do a successful border crossing and stay within the law, you essentially have to be an well-versed expert on the intricate details of Thai immigration policy, a la Mr. Lopburi. If I had one question for the top tamale in the Imm department, it would be: "Why make things so difficult?" ...to which, he would probably just grin and chuckle.

I disagree here. All you need is luck. All the knowledge of Visa regulations, Police orders and corresponding laws don't help at all when the Immigration Officer has no clue and does not like your face. Luckily, most Immigration officers don't mind our faces. But very few of them seem to know the rules, or are willing to play by the rules. Tha's the saddest part of it.

Sunny

[OneeyedJohn]

You appear to know so much, yet understand so little.

[Crossy]

Is this really such a big deal?

Why not:-

Nip down to your local immigration office. Explain that you seem to have gotten a 30 day stamp when you were expecting 90, play the dumb farang, do NOT mention your problem at the airport.

If they agree a mistake has been made they'll change the stamp, problem solved

If they don't agree you've lost nothing, time for a run to KL for a new Non-O (you would have needed to do it in 90 days anyway). Unless you stay in the Hilton (actually probably even if you do) it's not going to cost anything like 75,000 baht.

EDIT In your second post you indicate you had a re-entry permit. Why unless you knew your visa was expired? Don't forget the re-entry permit only protects your latest permit to stay date, it does not allow you to get another 90 days on entry.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Crossy

[Maestro]

Brahmburgers, I have tried very hard to understand what your situation is but I have not been successful.

1. “1 year type O visa”

1.1. Is this a non-immigrant visa, category (or classification) O, valid for multiple entries, a stamp or adhesive label put in your passport by a Thai consulate?

1.2. If yes, what is the date after the text “Issued on...”?

1.3. If legible, what is the date after the text “This visa must be utilized before...”?

2. “wanted to get the 90 day extension” – Are you talking about an entry into Thailand with your multiple-entry non- visa, which gives you permission to stay in Thailand for 90 days?

3. “visa re-entry date that was clearly stamped in the blue box” – What is this blue box? Is it a stamp put in your passport by the immigration officer when you entered Thailand? If so, what is its size? What text is within the frame of the stamp?

4. “The hand lettered date is underlined and looks like April 28” – Is this handwritten, underlined date in the stamp or label mentioned under point 1 above, or is it in the stamp mentioned under point 3?

5. “there were TWO visa expiration dates on my passport. One was smudged non-readable on the original visa, and the other was clear on the visa re-entry date”

5.1. Is the smudged date on the stamp or label mentioned under point 1 above?

5.2. Is the other, clearly legible date on the stamp mentioned under point 3 above?

I have numbered my questions so that in your reply you do not have to quote the full text of my post; you can simply refer to my numbers.

--

Maestro

[Dupont]

Few well posed questions and it went all quiet!

Should be easy to prove any of these dates.

What about the TM card?

What about the exit date from the last country before the last entry?

If its renewed in country, what about the date of the last renewal? add 90 days to it and it will be either 18 or 28 or 21 won't it?

These are all logged centrally. When you loose your passport which many of my friends and customers have done this past 15 years, you go to Bangkok, tell em where you entered the country and roughly when, and they come up with if from the computer within a couple of hours.

If its all so badly smudged why didn't you get a new passport?

Sure you just didn't screw it up and are now whining about it.

Complain to the relevant department, get copies of all your documents and put it it. Even if you doubt it will sort out your problem, each time they have to foramlly respond to complaints makes it less (even if only a little less) likely they will commit the same offence again... if it ever was one.

Looks like you were trying to scre 15 months out of the 12 month visa, why not settle for 14 months and be safe?

Would be interesting if people would come on here and complain, having made a serious attempt at resolving the issue themselves for once.

Your Visa is the most important thing you do in this country if you are a long time resident.

Edited April 20, 2007 by Dupont

[Maestro]

Few well posed questions and it went all quiet!

Some people sleep at night, and Brahmburgers may be one of them.

--

Maestro

[brahmburgers]

HI Maestro, I don't have at-home internet, so that's reason for delay in responding.

my answers are below your block of questions.....

Brahmburgers, I have tried very hard to understand what your situation is but I have not been successful.

1. “1 year type O visa”

1.1. Is this a non-immigrant visa, category (or classification) O, valid for multiple entries, a stamp or adhesive label put in your passport by a Thai consulate?

1.2. If yes, what is the date after the text “Issued on...”?

1.3. If legible, what is the date after the text “This visa must be utilized before...”?

2. “wanted to get the 90 day extension” – Are you talking about an entry into Thailand with your multiple-entry non- visa, which gives you permission to stay in Thailand for 90 days?

3. “visa re-entry date that was clearly stamped in the blue box” – What is this blue box? Is it a stamp put in your passport by the immigration officer when you entered Thailand? If so, what is its size? What text is within the frame of the stamp?

4. “The hand lettered date is underlined and looks like April 28” – Is this handwritten, underlined date in the stamp or label mentioned under point 1 above, or is it in the stamp mentioned under point 3?

5. “there were TWO visa expiration dates on my passport. One was smudged non-readable on the original visa, and the other was clear on the visa re-entry date”

5.1. Is the smudged date on the stamp or label mentioned under point 1 above?

5.2. Is the other, clearly legible date on the stamp mentioned under point 3 above?

I have numbered my questions so that in your reply you do not have to quote the full text of my post; you can simply refer to my numbers.

--

Maestro

Q1 I have/had a non-immigrant visa, type O, multiple entry issued in the States. The imm officer was right in reading the exp. date as April 18 (difficult as it was to decipher) - which rendered me one day late. If he was a decent fellow he could have considered that I was referring to the April 21 date (which would have made me 2 days early) - it was the standard baby blue rectangle stamp - clearly legible. There were two different renewal stamps, with two different dates. My big expensive mistake was I referred to the legible stamp and wasn't cognizant of the other.

It does no harm to any Thais or Thailand for the teller to have acknowledged my goof of looking at the one visa renewal date - instead of the other - whereas it portends to cause considerable expense and hassles for me if it sticks. He did his job with glee.

I fully appreciate the responses to my posting, and I fell a bit better about options. It looks as though I can resolve this satisfactorily without having to do an expensive return trip to the States. I'll try Chiang Mai first, and then perhaps Bangkok, and if those don't work - I'll go to Malaysia or Singapore. If those don't work, I may head down to Perth - who knows.

Retirement for me (in Thailand) was a picture of puttering around my garden, continuing to sponsor young women to go thru a 1 year nurses aides course - and chilling out. I had hoped to avoid long trips and hotels and taxis and locking horns with bureaucats all over SE Asia and beyond - but that's the way these draconian visa rules play out for the less-informed / less-savvy among us.

[LivinLOS]

OK so whats stopping you going to KL to get a new non imm O..

If you were planning to extend you obviously qualify.. So how is this going to cost you the big bucks you claim.

While I sympathize with you having problems, I cant see how immigration correctly giving you the stamp you deserved is poor treatment.

[aussiestyle1983]

2 nights for 2 people in Singapore with AirAsia and a Visa only set me back 20,000 THB. No need to complain about spending extra money you don't have to spend. But the imm officer was a face saving #### in your situation.

[Maestro]

...the standard baby blue rectangle stamp...There were two different renewal stamps, with two different dates....visa renewal date...

I’m afraid I am still none the wiser, still don’t know what stamps you are talking about because you use terminology unfamiliar to me, names for stamps that have never been used before on this forum.

Why don’t you just answer my list of questions, one by one, so that I, and others, may clearly understand what you are talking about? I am genuinely interested in your case and would like to understand it.

--

Maestro

[Jimjim]

Brahm,

Seems clear to me now that you were one day late on your eligible visa and so couldn't get your extra 90 days. Seems they were just playing by the rules here as you were the one late. It's not their fault, it's yours. So I see much complaining but no ground to stand on here. They were just applying the rules and not bending them at all.

Sorry to hear it but this wasn't some anti-farang act by the officers according to what you said. They were just applying the clear rules.

[LPCustom69]

My 1 year type O visa was about to expire. I wanted to get the 90 day extension so was carefully planning to come back before the expiration. It didn't work out. I kept referring to the visa re-entry date that was clearly stamped in the blue box - which clearly indicated April 21. I may have also made the mistake by asking the immigration officer politely that I request the 90 day extension (which may have made him more diligent in looking for ways to trip me up).

Anyhow, he only gave me 30 days - which also bolloxes up any chance for me to renew my 1 year type O visa within Thailand. He claims the date on the original smudged visa says April 18 - so that would make me one day late. I didn't know to refer to that date. The hand lettered date is underlined and looks like April 28 (which would make me OK with my plan). I took the passport and showed the visa stamp to other immigration officers in the office. The 2nd and 3rd officers to look at it said it was April 28th. The subsequent workers said "April 18" because by that time the original officer was shouting to everyone to say "April 18 !" in order to vindicate his decision.

So it goes. That simple oversight will cost me a minimum of 65,000 baht and at least 2 weeks of hassles having to return to my home country - even though I reside/retired here. Rule of thumb: if there are options of decisions, one of which will screw-up the foreigner, the Thai immigration authority will opt for the screw-up choice.

Can you scan and post the questionable areas?

[soap]

[.

Retirement for me (in Thailand) was a picture of puttering around my garden, continuing to sponsor young women to go thru a 1 year nurses aides course - and chilling out. I had hoped to avoid long trips and hotels and taxis and locking horns with bureaucats all over SE Asia and beyond - but that's the way these draconian visa rules play out for the less-informed / less-savvy among us.

i have been getting my one year marriage visa from mae sai immigration office for over 15 years,i have allways found them very very fair to every one,if on the odd occasion i have not had the right papers (only photo copies) they have politely asked me to get the papers copied and then finalized my application

the head man in the office,police captain thanasorn tangkaew can speak perfect english and knows the rules of his job inside out.

if you are retired in thailand and sponsor young women to go through a one year nurses aides course,why dont you just apply for a retirement visa.

because your other story does not wash with me