Visa uk indefinite leave to remain

[Poppin]

Hi all

can anyone help with my problem. I am a British Citizen living in Thailand with my Thai wife. She has indefinite leave to remain visa for the UK but this will expire on the out of Country over 2 years on the 27th August 2020. We booked a flight with BA for the 14th July 2020 but this has been cancelled by BA. I have re-booked for the 24th August but with the Thai government stating that international travel will not start until September then I think this flight will also be cancelled due to Covid 19 restrictions and then her visa will have expired. I have emailed the Covid 19 site the UK (cih@homriff ice.co.uk) but can only get an automated reply stating the have received my enquiry and this is now 6 weeks since contacting them. Can anyone please help and advise. Thanking you all in advance 

[Tony M]

I'm not sure what your problem is ?  There are available flights to the UK, and I know people who have traveled very recently. You would certainly be able to book flights for travel before 27th August. Why wait, and hope, to fly 3 days before your wife's ILR expires ? If your wife cannot travel, then she will need to apply for a returning resident visa (after her ILR expires), and will have to meet some fairly strict requirements in order to qualify as a returning resident.

 

The Home Office is likely to take the view that your wife has had ample opportunity, actually for two years, to return to the UK within the validity of her ILR. They are not exactly a sympathetic and understanding organisation.

[tiocfaidh]

Eva Air are flying nonstop to Heathrow every week.

I returned with them, PPE and all middle seats were blocked off.

Book with them, problem solved. 

[steve187]

the ILR to remain is just that a leave to remain, not a leave to come and go after long periods out of the UK, i had a friend who had ILR, but stayed in Thailand 14 months , on return to UK her ILR was cancelled, but she was allowed entry for a short period to match her return ticket.

[puchooay]

18 hours ago, steve187 said:

the ILR to remain is just that a leave to remain, not a leave to come and go after long periods out of the UK, i had a friend who had ILR, but stayed in Thailand 14 months , on return to UK her ILR was cancelled, but she was allowed entry for a short period to match her return ticket.

The rules clearly state that a holder of ILR is allowed to stay outside of the UK for a period of 2 years. If you know someone that had ILR revoked after 14 months, I would think they have either misled you or have not told you the whole story.

[Tony M]

7 hours ago, puchooay said:

The rules clearly state that a holder of ILR is allowed to stay outside of the UK for a period of 2 years. If you know someone that had ILR revoked after 14 months, I would think they have either misled you or have not told you the whole story.

Yes and no.  A holder of ILR can stay outside the UK for up to 2 years. But on their return to UK, in order to retain their ILR, they must be seeking entry for settlement. Someone coming back to the UK as a visitor, or solely to get a new ILR stamp and then exit the UK, may not qualify for ILR. Paragraph 18 of the immigration rules refers.

[theoldgit]

Unhelpful post removed.

[steve187]

10 hours ago, puchooay said:

The rules clearly state that a holder of ILR is allowed to stay outside of the UK for a period of 2 years. If you know someone that had ILR revoked after 14 months, I would think they have either misled you or have not told you the whole story.

no misleading i was with her when she arrived, 

[puchooay]

4 hours ago, Tony M said:

Yes and no.  A holder of ILR can stay outside the UK for up to 2 years. But on their return to UK, in order to retain their ILR, they must be seeking entry for settlement. Someone coming back to the UK as a visitor, or solely to get a new ILR stamp and then exit the UK, may not qualify for ILR. Paragraph 18 of the immigration rules refers.

Interesting comment. How would any border control officer know your intentions for returning? The post I quoted says IRL was revoked upon arrival. Does a border control officer have the authority to make these decisions based on what happens at the airport? I still think there must be something more to this story.

[hotandsticky]

9 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Interesting comment. How would any border control officer know your intentions for returning? The post I quoted says IRL was revoked upon arrival. Does a border control officer have the authority to make these decisions based on what happens at the airport? I still think there must be something more to this story.

 

 

I imagine that Old Git may confirm that UK Border Force are like Thai Immigration in that they have the final say on allowing - or denying - entry.

[puchooay]

4 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I imagine that Old Git may confirm that UK Border Force are like Thai Immigration in that they have the final say on allowing - or denying - entry.

Denying entry and revoking ILR are very different. The post clearly says ILR was cancelled.

[torturedsole]

On 6/22/2020 at 5:34 AM, Poppin said:

She has indefinite leave to remain visa for the UK but this will expire on the out of Country over 2 years on the 27th August 2020.

My Thai wife knows lots of Thais in the UK and many of them gain ILR status with no intention of ever becoming a British citizen.  Personally, I find this surprising as quite a restrictive and parlous immigration status.  I find it surprising as it wouldn't take much to lose ILR status and have to restart the whole settlement process over.  

 

Your wife is so close to citizenship, yet so far.  Even if she does return to the UK before her two years absence elapses she could be refused entry and, by default, ILR expires.  

 

To an IO your wife could appear to be a classic case of using ILR as a glorified permanent visit visa and they'd be quite right too.  

 

If I was in your position, I'd get my skates on and book the soonest available EVA flight back to the UK and have your excuses lined up as to why your wife is scooting back days before her ILR expires, if challenged.  Sick mother, father, goat, buffalo, whatever.  Just be ready, in case.

 

And if your wife does manage to get back in on her ILR then you should both carefully consider her future immigration status, particularly for the sake of a short period to citizenship and your current propensity to living dangerously. It's your money and entirely up to you but consider the pain if ILR were revoked.  

 

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by torturedsole

[Tony M]

11 hours ago, puchooay said:

Interesting comment. How would any border control officer know your intentions for returning? The post I quoted says IRL was revoked upon arrival. Does a border control officer have the authority to make these decisions based on what happens at the airport? I still think there must be something more to this story.

Well, there are various ways, actually. For instance, the Border Force officer could ask a question about how long the passenger intends to stay in the UK, or if he is still resident in the UK. Or he could perhaps note from the passport that the holder had ILR for several years, but only seemed to return to the UK every two years for a period of around a week. That might indicate that the passenger isn't resident in the UK. The officer then has a choice. He can grant the ILR again, or he can treat the passenger as a visitor to the UK, thereby "revoking" the ILR (in accordance with paragraph 18 of the immigration rules). The passenger then has a choice. He accepts that he no longer has ILR, or he can later approach the Home Office and argue his case to have his ILR reinstated. Naturally, if he leaves the UK while the Home Office are considering his request, then it might look as though he indeed did not actually return to the UK to resume settlement.  He would, of course, then also be entitled to apply for a "Returning Resident" entry clearance from outside of the UK.

 

Border Force Officers are on the primary immigration control to enforce immigration rules.  The BFO therefore has to make decisions based on what happens at the airport ? Are you suggesting that the BFO has no "authority" to make decisions ? It's his job to do so.

 

By the way, this isn't just confined to UK. For instance, US Green Card holders are subject to similar restrictions despite being "resident" in the US. In fact, the US rules are far stricter than the UK's on this. 

[puchooay]

20 minutes ago, Tony M said:

Well, there are various ways, actually. For instance, the Border Force officer could ask a question about how long the passenger intends to stay in the UK, or if he is still resident in the UK. Or he could perhaps note from the passport that the holder had ILR for several years, but only seemed to return to the UK every two years for a period of around a week. That might indicate that the passenger isn't resident in the UK. The officer then has a choice. He can grant the ILR again, or he can treat the passenger as a visitor to the UK, thereby "revoking" the ILR (in accordance with paragraph 18 of the immigration rules). The passenger then has a choice. He accepts that he no longer has ILR, or he can later approach the Home Office and argue his case to have his ILR reinstated. Naturally, if he leaves the UK while the Home Office are considering his request, then it might look as though he indeed did not actually return to the UK to resume settlement.  He would, of course, then also be entitled to apply for a "Returning Resident" entry clearance from outside of the UK.

 

Border Force Officers are on the primary immigration control to enforce immigration rules.  The BFO therefore has to make decisions based on what happens at the airport ? Are you suggesting that the BFO has no "authority" to make decisions ? It's his job to do so.

 

By the way, this isn't just confined to UK. For instance, US Green Card holders are subject to similar restrictions despite being "resident" in the US. In fact, the US rules are far stricter than the UK's on this. 

I was of the idea that the post I quoted referred to someone who had been out of UK the 14 months for the first time. That is why I asked the questions. I fully understand, and agree, that multiple times of leaving and returning would raise red flags. 

 

I still find it hard to believe that one solitary officer would have the authority to revoke ILR and allow entry for the duration of flight ticket, as mentioned. I would imagine there would be a process and it would take time and many levels.

[theoldgit]

Just now, puchooay said:

I still find it hard to believe that one solitary officer would have the authority to revoke ILR and allow entry for the duration of flight ticket, as mentioned. I would imagine there would be a process and it would take time and many levels.

 

Whilst, as Tony M, has said Para 18 of the Act makes this very clear, I understand that the Border Force Officer on the desk would bounce it off their Senior Officer, CIO old speak, who would confirm the Officers decision.

 

I certainly don't think their are many levels at the Border, though I suspect the passenger could well appeal their case during their stay, they would need a pretty compelling case though.

[Tony M]

8 minutes ago, puchooay said:

I was of the idea that the post I quoted referred to someone who had been out of UK the 14 months for the first time. That is why I asked the questions. I fully understand, and agree, that multiple times of leaving and returning would raise red flags. 

 

I still find it hard to believe that one solitary officer would have the authority to revoke ILR and allow entry for the duration of flight ticket, as mentioned. I would imagine there would be a process and it would take time and many levels.

The Border Force Officer is in place to operate the immigration control. Why shouldn't he be able to make decisions ?  He can make the decision to reimpose ILR. He can make the decision to restrict the ILR to a visit. He can seek advice from a senior officer if he doesn't know what to do. He would not refuse entry to the passenger, unless there were other factors, and he would have to obtain authority from a senior officer to do so.. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Tony M

[Tony M]

16 minutes ago, Tony M said:

The Border Force Officer is in place to operate the immigration control. Why shouldn't he be able to make decisions ?  He can make the decision to reimpose ILR. He can make the decision to restrict the ILR to a visit. He can seek advice from a senior officer if he doesn't know what to do. He would not refuse entry to the passenger, unless there were other factors, and he would have to obtain authority from a senior officer to do so.. 

Apologies. Border Force Officers can no longer admit passengers as visitors if they hold ILR. That has now changed. However, this is part of the current guidance to Border Force Officers:

Cancelling indefinite leave

If, upon conducting a thorough examination, you are satisfied that the person has indefinite leave but that they are not returning to the UK to settle, either now or in the future, then you must cancel the indefinite leave due to a change of circumstances. The individual will have a right to an Administrative Review unless they waive their right to it.

 

Clearly,  such a decision would be autghorised by a senior officer.  The current guidance are lengthy, and ambiguous (I find) in places. The guidance can be seen in the attachment.

returning-residents-v2.pdf

[englishoak]

 

There has been plenty of good advice given to the OP yet when presented with the possibility ILR could or might be revoked he gets all defensive. Looks to me like the OP has no intention of wife returning to settle in the UK,to renew the ILR with zero intention of using it as intended is effectively immigration fraud, a visitors visa or spouse sponsored visa would be more appropriate. This is why visa regulations get ever tighter  and consequentially more costly for genuine cases wishing to make a family life in the UK. Luckily border control is getting better at rooting out people gaming the system, especially while theres low foot fall traffic.. 

 

[puchooay]

3 hours ago, englishoak said:

 

There has been plenty of good advice given to the OP yet when presented with the possibility ILR could or might be revoked he gets all defensive. Looks to me like the OP has no intention of wife returning to settle in the UK,to renew the ILR with zero intention of using it as intended is effectively immigration fraud, a visitors visa or spouse sponsored visa would be more appropriate. This is why visa regulations get ever tighter  and consequentially more costly for genuine cases wishing to make a family life in the UK. Luckily border control is getting better at rooting out people gaming the system, especially while theres low foot fall traffic.. 

 

Looks to me like the OP hasn't even replied yet.

[jimn]

On 6/22/2020 at 12:19 PM, Tony M said:

I'm not sure what your problem is ?  There are available flights to the UK, and I know people who have traveled very recently. You would certainly be able to book flights for travel before 27th August. Why wait, and hope, to fly 3 days before your wife's ILR expires ? If your wife cannot travel, then she will need to apply for a returning resident visa (after her ILR expires), and will have to meet some fairly strict requirements in order to qualify as a returning resident.

 

The Home Office is likely to take the view that your wife has had ample opportunity, actually for two years, to return to the UK within the validity of her ILR. They are not exactly a sympathetic and understanding organisation.

I totally agree with you Tony. My wife is on the last year of her 5 year family visit visa, we have been spending 4 months per year in the UK, same as we had been doing on the previous 3 single year visa's. We are booked on Qatar airways on 9 July, Qatar have been flying to the UK throughout this pandemic. No excuse at all. The OP cant be that interested in the advice, he has not logged in since he created the topic. Maybe he is just looking for sympathy, something he has no chance of getting on here.

[jimn]

On 6/25/2020 at 5:47 AM, englishoak said:

 

There has been plenty of good advice given to the OP yet when presented with the possibility ILR could or might be revoked he gets all defensive. Looks to me like the OP has no intention of wife returning to settle in the UK,to renew the ILR with zero intention of using it as intended is effectively immigration fraud, a visitors visa or spouse sponsored visa would be more appropriate. This is why visa regulations get ever tighter  and consequentially more costly for genuine cases wishing to make a family life in the UK. Luckily border control is getting better at rooting out people gaming the system, especially while theres low foot fall traffic.. 

 

Looks to me like you are getting confused. The OP has not been back on line since his original post, lol.