Something for the herd immunity crowd.

[PatchinExPat]

THEM

""A new Chinese study published in Nature Medicine suggests that people who develop antibodies after becoming infected with the coronavirus may not keep them for more than two months — a growing concern as several states in the U.S. see alarming spikes in COVID-19 cases.

 

When you get an antibody test, we don't really know enough to be able to assure you that you're safe. And I think the more we're learning about antibodies, the more we're beginning to say we're not so sure that you're safe,” Dr. Daniel Griffin, an infectious disease specialist at Columbia University Medical Center

In the study, researchers from Chongqing Medical University in China looked at 37 people who became infected with the coronavirus and showed symptoms and 37 people who became infected and showed no symptoms. Out of the participants involved, antibody levels fell to undetectable levels in 40 percent of asymptomatic people and 13 percent of symptomatic people just eight weeks after they recovered from COVID-19.

 

“Many of us were quite disturbed when we saw this study out of China, which actually demonstrated that in a number of individuals, particularly these individuals with more mild disease, that we're worried are the silent spreaders, that these individuals were losing their antibodies shield after just a month or two,” Griffin said.

 

 

Like many doctors, Griffin hoped that COVID-19 would leave those infected with a protective shield for a year or two since past studies on similar viruses like SARS and MERS found that antibodies last for at least a year.

 

“This is why we keep seeing the common cold coronaviruses cause infections on a yearly basis, often in the same individuals and we've even seen them do this in the same individual just a few months apart,” Griffin explained. “So this is quite worrisome that here we're seeing evidence that maybe a person can get COVID-19 more than once, maybe more than once in a short period of time.”

 

The findings in the new Chinese study also calls into question the idea of “immunity passports,” which some countries may issue to recovered COVID-19 patients to allow them to go back to work and travel because they're supposedly immune to the virus. But Griffin doesn’t think we’re ready for this type of approach quite yet.""

 

ME

So herd immunity appears to be so short lived it is worthless.

Kinda like the hands on a clock, if 6AM gets you, 6PM can get you also.

The only way to be safe is to confine all on the inside who have and

eliminate any outsiders from penetrating the group.

Or, just say the hell with it, if you die , you die and throw the doors open.

Because it looks like 6PM will come around for sure.

 

..

[scubascuba3]

Maybe the asymptomatic people will be asymptomatic again so panic over.

 

I've only heard of 2 cases of people catching it again out of 10,000,000 and they were caused by dodgy testing so I won't be worrying about it

[twocatsmac]

That will please a lot of Boris haters.

[473geo]

Look at the European death rates they have dramatically reduced, where is the spike as countries open up?

Few are saying the virus will be eradicated, but likely a repeat dose is less threatening so the draconian 'lock down' measures become redundant as knowledge and treatments improve

 

Come on this is nothing new, are the elderly not receiving an annual vaccine for protection against flu??

[GroveHillWanderer]

Fascinating article on the link below about antibody tests and CoVid-19 immunity.

 

It also cites evidence that antibodies may not last too long and that people who were asymptomatic lose their antibodies even more quickly than those that had symptoms.

 

However it found that many of these people still had a heightened T cell response  that might be enough to stave off a future infection. As it says:

 

Quote

 

T cells may be sufficient to control infection in the absence of antibodies ...

 

T cell responses have been detected in most Covid-19 patients, and first-in-human vaccine trials have reported potent T cell activation. It is possible that T cells’ memory of Sars-CoV-2 may last longer than antibodies, as is the case in other coronaviruses.

 

Antibody tests and CoVid-19 immunity

 

What's interesting about this article (I think) is that the conclusions you can draw from it are somewhat "in the eye of the beholder."

 

You could look at it and say naturally acquired immunity is less likely because antibodies don't always persist very long - or you could read it and say immunity is more likely because of the T cell response.

 

In the end though, I reckon the main thing to take away from this article is, as the writer says, that:

 

Quote

immunity in Covid-19 [is] a puzzle that we have yet to solve.

 

[Sambotte]

Very likely human body does not forget an immune response, unless some other problem (like cancer cells the body fight until it can't, or like auto-immune problem).

 

Looks pretty much like scare/fear news. Bad.

 

Another example of human body capacities : yellow fever vaccine, until only a few years, was considered valid for 10 years. Now they admit it's for life !

 

Science and medecine are largely in the unknown. Should not talk like they guess right with so few actual knowledge, especially when it's always in the "fear" direction.

 

The whole life process is to adapt, to change, to evolve. Very unlikely human body "forget" something like a destructive virus.

 

For the "crowd" like the OP says, but actually the crowd who as no immunity to basic media news fear, better worries :

- This virus can mutate worse, it's a kind of a lottery. 

- There will be other micro-organism pandemies, it's how life works.

 

And in the end, death is part of life ! Better admit it and have a real life.

 

As Alexandre Dumas was writing many times : "against all doctors efforts, the patient survived"...

[faraday]

After all the protests in the UK for the BLM, where hundreds of people congregated, I wonder why there hasn't been a huge increase in cases....

 

Mind you, when a vaccine is developed, the Pharmaceutical companies will have a massive payday.

[GroveHillWanderer]

38 minutes ago, faraday said:

Mind you, when a vaccine is developed, the Pharmaceutical companies will have a massive payday.

Not necessarily. Several of the main (and most advanced) vaccine development groups, such as the Oxford University Vaccine team, have said that if and when their vaccines prove effective, they will be distributed on a non-profit basis.

 

Also, any vaccine development effort that has received funding from the Global Vaccine Alliance, GAVI (and many of them have) has had to pledge that they will make their vaccines available on a non-profit basis as well.

Edited June 27, 2020 by GroveHillWanderer

[DrTuner]

Not very good news, however it's still unknown if the adaptive immune system creates any memory in the T-cells. We'll know in the coming months. I would guess this will be a seasonal pest.

[mommysboy]

Immunity is a complex issue as others have pointed out.  I wouldn't draw any conclusions from this study whatsoever, though I note that the commentators have done so, and this is possibly the most telling feature.