Any reports on back-dating of your 1-year permission to stay during the Amnesty?

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

No, that's BS. On a recent thread Ubonjoe reported that CW does NOT collude with dishonest agents. Now, how he knows that, I haven't the foggiest idea. But, he certainly has many more sources than the rest of us.

You probably observed agent-aided customers readily getting their business concluded. This is because agents make sure all is in order before wasting an IO's time; and the IO knows this will be the case, and is grateful. Smiles all around.

No, what I saw, were agents w/ clients walking in Between Queue Numbers, posing for a picture, and leaving.  I asked some of these agents for assistance, but they said they only do retirement - same response as those I contacted prior to attempting to apply in-person. 

 

Faked money for applications at CW work the same as anywhere else.  I have seen no reports (people who actually apply there) that this has changed.  The primary difference at CW in the past, was they were reported to have very conisistent standards for in-person / honest applicants.  This changed last year, when they started things like denying final-stamps on Non-O Family-Based unless you left the money in the bank for a month beyond what the rules require, added Non-B type documents to Non-O Thai-Income based applications (I reported this first, since confirmed), refuse to provide a printed-list of the complete requirements to allow "improvisation" by the IO (my experience this past March), etc.
 

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, I'm one of many who use an agent to facilitate matters, meaning only one trip to Imm -- and at CM, no parking problem. And, for only 4000 baht. When you see much higher agent costs posted here, you're looking at the dishonest end of the spectrum. Unfortunately, this forum still has a hard time differentiating between the two brands of agents. Thus, causing considerable confusion.

Jack, why not try an honest agent, since it's not your bonafides that are out of order, but your presentation.

I agree there are 2 types of agents - but neither should be able to skip the queue ahead of those who are following the rules - yet even the ones not faking-money do this.  In your experience with a non-fake-money agent, does the IO go through your documents while you sit there - and do you enter by queue number?

 

My office contacted some "law firms" about my extension after my denial - said the rates were "sky high."  At the time, not knowing the border-closures would go on through July, we agreed I would continue with a Non-O-ME Visa. 

[Peter Denis]

23 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

My experience, was that they added unpublished requirements, one after the other - with each attempt to submit my application, until they succeeded in blocking my application completely. 

 

"Landlord Docs" beyond a lease were new "unpublished requrirements" at the time - not reported needed before, and still not required at Chiang Wattana and many other offices years later.  It has nothing to do with the official requirements, which are - married, living together, and sufficient income. 

 

This new method to block honest applicants, which spread among several offices during/after this period, is generally ONLY applied to those applying based on Thai-Family - the applicants immigration clearly hates the most, as evidenced by both "official" and "unofficial" measures to make these difficult to achieve. 

 

So, yes, that cruel and capricious behavior - continually moving the goalposts by adding "new" requirements, often changing with each attempt to apply - is entirely immigration's "fault," and is not limited to my experience.  MANY have reported this technique being used on them, to wear them down, and force them to use an agent, so immigration can get their payoff.

I certainly agree that there are some rogue offices that are making it difficult to apply for a Family Visa or extension, by imposing petty and often last-minute 'additional' requirements.

Many horror-stories about this on the Forum.  You surely have a point there.

What I don't agree about is that the main reason they do this is to drive you in the arms of an agent to pocket part of the agent fee in the 'brown-envelope'.  There might be some ultra-rogue offices where that is also part of the consideration to make it 'as difficult as possible' to apply for a marriage Visa/extension, but the actual reasons they do this are far simpler.

1 - A Visa or 1-year extension application for reason of marriage, requires far more paperwork to be provided by the applicant and processed by the IO than one for reason of retirement.  Many retirees married to a thai national do not even bother to change their category, exactly for that reason (even with the financials to be proven being far lower for a Visa/extension for reason of marriage).  

And when asking 'advice' from an IO, they will often recommend an application for reason of retirement, as it saves them a whole lot of paper-work to process.  Some even recommend applying at a thai consulate in a neighboring country, just to save them the hassle of having to process the application.

2 - An even more important reason for IO's not being enthusiastic having to process an application for reason of marriage, is that such an application needs to be approved by the IO divisional level.  So once again more work for them (it cannot be done in 'one go'), but also - and more important -  that their work is being 'checked' by the divisional level.  

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

My office contacted some "law firms" about my extension after my denial - said the rates were "sky high."  At the time, not knowing the border-closures would go on through July, we agreed I would continue with a Non-O-ME Visa. 

Maybe they should have obtained new documents as requested by CW instead.

[jackdd]

41 minutes ago, JimGant said:

This is because agents make sure all is in order before wasting an IO's time; and the IO knows this will be the case, and is grateful. Smiles all around.

You don't think this is because some of the money which you pay to the agent finds its way into the pocket of the IO?

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You don't think this is because some of the money which you pay to the agent finds its way into the pocket of the IO?

Agents can't assist with marriage extensions unless the paperwork is in order.

Jim Gant used an agent, but the fee reflects it was a bona fide application.

 

47 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, I'm one of many who use an agent to facilitate matters, meaning only one trip to Imm -- and at CM, no parking problem. And, for only 4000 baht.

The fact that agents were reluctant to assist Jack, again only confirms the fact his documents were not in order. Other than in Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai, agents are far and few in-between and certainly don't cover all the Immigration offices throughout the Country.

Those facts somewhat put a damper on Jack's theory that all IO's are pushing clients towards agents in order to receive brown envelopes.

 

Sometimes it's a simple fact that applications are refused because they don't meet the requirements.

Going to an agent in that situation is a choice the applicant makes.

[JimGant]

15 minutes ago, jackdd said:

You don't think this is because some of the money which you pay to the agent finds its way into the pocket of the IO?

Nope, not for a legitimate agent. The IO isn't doing anything out of the ordinary. My agent can't even facilitate queue jumping, and she certainly doesn't need a brown envelope to grease any skids that don't need greasing. No, my agent makes sure all is in order, including last year, to retake my photo because she felt the one I provided didn't have a blue enough background. This year I have a new wrinkle -- insurance. Agent said she can handle the LMG insurance application, making sure the policy date matches the latest CM guidance on policy begin date in concert with extension renewal date. Anyway, hope, like last year, this will be one stop shopping (well, two, including the agent) and, with limo service to Imm, I'm in and out without hassle. Actually, this year will be quicker and cheaper, as I'm not getting a re-entry permit -- as sometime during the year I need to leave and finally invalidate the OA visa, with all its insurance baggage.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Maybe they should have obtained new documents as requested by CW instead.

I gave my employer the list of what was needed (based on my wife's notes - they would not provide anything in writing).  Everything is legal, but requires paying accounting, someone to go get all the docs (long queues every place), PLUS the agent's fee, as they know "How it works here."   Everyone knows how it works, except newbies like I was, when I first got here.

 

But by the time I would have been applying, again a week or so later, after re-gathering what had already been done for my existing work-permit:

1. No new tax-month paid, because of the covid-defferal, as allowed by the Tax-Dept, which immigration evidently doesn't respect.
2. Impossible to take pictures in an office closed to to covid - but imm said "No pics, no extension," when I asked about this.

 

38 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Those facts somewhat put a damper on Jack's theory that all IO's are pushing clients towards agents in order to receive brown envelopes.

The agents NEVER EVEN LOOKED OR ASKED about my documents.  I told them I was working here legally / work-permit, qualify 100% legally for an extension Based On Marriage, - and they ALL said, "Nope, can't help you - only do 'retirement'."  A couple suggested I call a lawyer - one of whom contacted me via PM, a month later to offer their services.

 

The fact you continue to lie about my experience makes we wonder -  are you on Immigration's payroll as some sort of PR guy?  Do you guys really think you can gas-light us into not knowing what you/they are and do?  If you are their representative, please open an "Ask Me Anything" thread, so we get some answers.

 

They Change The Rules to hurt honest people, and force us to agents - which is where MOST of their income is derived.  The documents they add do not "prove" anything relevant to the application.  If immigration cared about things being "true" they would simply ban all "fixers."

Edited July 1, 2020 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Nope, not for a legitimate agent. The IO isn't doing anything out of the ordinary. My agent can't even facilitate queue jumping, and she certainly doesn't need a brown envelope to grease any skids that don't need greasing. ...

I think my wife might have met your agent in the atrium.  She was out there with us "rabble," with a queue number, carrying several folders full of documents.  I asked my wife to query her, and she said she it would be "very difficult" to file application based on marriage - though was a nice lady / polite.  As she did not seem happy about the prospect, we did not pursue it further.

[BritManToo]

40 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The fact that agents were reluctant to assist Jack, again only confirms the fact his documents were not in order. Other than in Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai, agents are far and few in-between and certainly don't cover all the Immigration offices throughout the Country.

Those facts somewhat put a damper on Jack's theory that all IO's are pushing clients towards agents in order to receive brown envelopes.

In Chiang Mai the agent near me charges 25k for a retirement extension, no questions or documents or banking required. It's 5k for him and 20k for immigration.

Marriage extensions aren't approved locally, so he can't do them.

 

I don't know about any other areas, just Chiang Mai.

Edited July 1, 2020 by BritManToo

[CorpusChristie]

Just now, BritManToo said:

In Chiang Mai the agent near me charges 25k for a retirement extension, no questions or documents or banking required.

It's 5k for him and 20k for immigration.

You really shouldnt put that info in the public domain .

Think about it and the possible consequences 

[BritManToo]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

You really shouldnt put that info in the public domain .

Think about it and the possible consequences 

What consequences?

I haven't named him, don't use him, and don't use Chiang Mai immigration.

If they were to ban all agents, I'd be entirely happy, I'd have the chance of getting a legit extension locally.

The more corruption is exposed, the better it is IMHO.

[transam]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

In Chiang Mai the agent near me charges 25k for a retirement extension, no questions or documents or banking required. It's 5k for him and 20k for immigration.

Marriage extensions aren't approved locally, so he can't do them.

 

I don't know about any other areas, just Chiang Mai.

Who gets the immigration 20k, the Gov or Chang....?

 

[Tanoshi]

38 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The fact you continue to lie about my experience makes we wonder -  are you on Immigration's payroll as some sort of PR guy?  Do you guys really think you can gas-light us into not knowing what you/they are and do?  If you are their representative, please open an "Ask Me Anything" thread, so we get some answers.

I don't doubt your experience Jack.

The only difference being you blame Immigration, when from the information you've posted the fault is with your documents as presented, which weren't acceptable.

 

I know local expats that have been refused for the same reason, but go and do something about it instead of continually bleating on a forum how the system has treated you so unfairly.

When does your Non Imm O ME expire Jack?

Now you know the issues you can correct them and have everything in order to submit a new marriage extension application next time around.

 

Other than your continual conspiracy theory that Immigration are trying to push applicants to use agents in order to line their own pockets, you can post some very good information.

[JackThompson]

19 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I don't doubt your experience Jack.

The only difference being you blame Immigration, when from the information you've posted the fault is with your documents as presented, which weren't acceptable.

The "moving target" documents? 

 

19 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I know local expats that have been refused for the same reason, but go and do something about it instead of continually bleating on a forum how the system has treated you so unfairly.

Like getting what they ask for 4 times, and being denied each time when they ask for something else, as I have done?

 

Or like them telling you that even though their "new requirements" cannot be met due to covid, they don't care - as in the last time?

 

19 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

When does your Non Imm O ME expire Jack?

Now you know the issues you can correct them and have everything in order to submit a new marriage extension application next time around.

No, I cannot.  My employer will need to spend a lot of time and money to get all the "new requirements" - and that, some point months in the future, after I have 3-mo taxes to show, again and an office open in which to take pictures.

 

As a result of immigration moving the goalposts (again), I will likely be working remote from some other country, talking to my Thai-wife on Skype, beginning in August, unless something changes.  This to spite having Absolute Proof I have the required-income, a work-permit allowing that income, and a place we live together, where they are welcome to come and verify this fact.

 

19 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Other than your continual conspiracy theory that Immigration are trying to push applicants to use agents in order to line their own pockets, you can post some very good information.

As contrasted to the "theory," that people who dervive huge sums of money from corruption, won't try to keep that flow of money coming?  What would be expected, with such perverse incentives in place?

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

In your experience with a non-fake-money agent, does the IO go through your documents while you sit there - and do you enter by queue number?

Yes. I'd feel too embarrassed to be ushered to the head of the line.

Edited July 1, 2020 by JimGant

[transam]

11 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Yes. I'd feel too embarrassed to be ushered to the head of the line.

........and given tea and biscuits.........????