Are ATMs not ripping people off anymore like long time ago?

[Pib]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I think the banks refer to those as "cross border" transactions.

I've usually seen the "cross border fee" reference for European/Oz cards; and "foreign transaction fee" for US cards.  Thai bank cards often refer to it as "currency risk or currency conversion fee."   All mean the same thing....accomplish the transaction in a foreign country and we hit you with a fee.  All bankster weasel talk. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

21 minutes ago, Stadtler said:

The exchange rate at Bangkok Bank is just shy of 31 Baht for One Dollar.  Where is the 5.9 percent? 31 Baht minus 29 gives a difference of roughly 2 Baht.

 

Back to math class for you...  

 

[Stadtler]

8 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Which is about 6%.  If it were 100 and 98 it would be 2%

So when they rip you off, they tell you the truth. Still, the surprise fee comes from your bank, not the ATM transaction.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

I've usually seen the "cross border fee" reference for European/Oz cards; and "foreign transaction fee" for US cards.  

 

No, I've got some of that same kind of terminology showing up in some of my US bank encounters...

 

Specifically, they use the term cross border transaction, for example, if I was in the U.S. with a U.S. bank card but buying an airline ticket from an airline based outside the U.S., even if I'm doing the purchase in dollars.

 

[hello55060]

I had a bad experience in Powerbuy, I had purchased about 50000 THB worth of stuff used a foreign card to pay and the sales cashier girl didn't ask me if I want to pay in THB or my home country money and automatically does the DCC. Ended up costing me like 2000thb extra, as my card has 0% fees when paying in foreign currency.  Anyway I was peed and complained immediate when I saw the receipt and the girl just lied instead of admitting her screw up and said there wasn't an option to pay in THB it just did it automatically. Amazing how when I've bought in 100s of other shops in Thailand they've always asked me what currency I want to pay in and even before when I used powerbuy I was offered the choice.

Needless to say I was seething for the next few hours after for losing 2000 thb due to some idiot employee and their incompetence.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Stadtler said:

So when they rip you off, they tell you the truth. Still, the surprise fee comes from your bank, not the ATM transaction.

 

The example I posted above with the 5.9% exchange rate fee was a POS transaction at a Thai supermarket, not an ATM transaction.  That 5.9% fee wasn't being charged by my card issuing bank. It was going to be charged, had I accepted it, by the Thai bank here (Kasikorn) handling the card transaction for the Thai merchant.

[stouricks]

2 hours ago, Sojuncoke said:

 

Ok either way I always saw that using ATM was a lot more expensive a few years back but now its actually cheaper than using transferwise. So then why would anyone use transferwise? 

In my case, and many others, we use Transferwise to transfer GBP/USD etc into THB for our Visa Extension which MUST show as a foreign exchange in your Thai bank. T'wise does that if you click the correct button.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, hello55060 said:

I had a bad experience in Powerbuy, I had purchased about 50000 THB worth of stuff used a foreign card to pay and the sales cashier girl didn't ask me if I want to pay in THB or my home country money and automatically does the DCC. Ended up costing me like 2000thb extra, as my card has 0% fees when paying in foreign currency.  Anyway I was peed and complained immediate when I saw the receipt and the girl just lied instead of admitting her screw up and said there wasn't an option to pay in THB it just did it automatically. Amazing how when I've bought in 100s of other shops in Thailand they've always asked me what currency I want to pay in and even before when I used powerbuy I was offered the choice.

Needless to say I was seething for the next few hours after for losing 2000 thb due to some idiot employee and their incompetence.

 

1. Some stores do that automatically, presumably in order to enhance their revenues.

 

2. Some Thai cashiering staff, mainly used to dealing with TH customers, don't actually know how to correctly input the transaction on the card terminal, even when you tell them you want it rung in THB....

 

3. If you get a DCC transaction like that, you ALWAYS have the option to tell the cashier to void the transaction right then and there, and either get a different cashier or talk to a manager in order to get someone to re-ring it correctly and avoid DCC.

 

 

 

 

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The counter advance has the advance of allowing larger single transaction withdrawal amounts, but requires the person to present their passport, and sometimes banks/bank staff that will refuse to do them

I used this way for a long time.

Bank staff usually don't like it, it is time consuming. They have to use the credit Card device, some can't handle it properly and of course they claim there is something wrong with your C.C..

Then for one or another reason they can not put the funds directly to my bank account. Instead I received the money in cash, and had to sign for it. Than have to fill in a form that I transfer the funds to my bank account, than my bankbook is updated.

All this can't apparently not been done by the same employee, so different staff are involved plus a manager who has to sign in in the computer.

And now for about 2 years I use Transferwise from the comfort of my home.

I make the transfer around 8 a.m., the funds are on my bank-account around 2 p.m..

For some it goes even quicker.

[Eindhoven]

22 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

In general, the best deal a person's going to get in Thailand with electronic transactions is going to be using a no foreign currency fee debit card either with a no-fee bank counter advance or via an Thai ATM where the Thai 220b is either waived or reimbursed by the card-issuing bank.

 

But either of the above approaches require the card holder to be well informed and careful... Careful that their home country bank isn't charging an explicit or hidden foreign currency conversion fee. And on the Thai end, that the Thai bank handling the counter withdrawal isn't charging a reduced exchange rate on foreign cards as some do, like SCB....

 

The counter advance has the advance of allowing larger single transaction withdrawal amounts, but requires the person to present their passport, and sometimes banks/bank staff that will refuse to do them. The ATMs have the advantage of being easy and convenient, but limited to a max of 30,000 baht per withdrawal.  But again, IF there are no FCFs being charged anywhere along the processes.

 

 

 

Not quite, since most debit cards will be rejected for cash advances or an admin charge would be applied(SCB). In general you need a no-fee credit card.

Of course if it is a no-fee card, you won't have to check for hidden forex fees. Not sure quite what you were thinking when you wrote that.

Don't think SCB do anything with the rate, but they do apply a 180 baht Admin Charge, so one should avoid them at the best of times.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

I used this way for a long time.

Bank staff usually don't like it, it is time consuming. They have to use the credit Card device, some can't handle it properly and of course they claim there is something wrong with your C.C..

Then for one or another reason they can not put the funds directly to my bank account. Instead I received the money in cash, and had to sign for it. Than have to fill in a form that I transfer the funds to my bank account, than my bankbook is updated.

All this can't apparently not been done by the same employee, so different staff are involved plus a manager who has to sign in in the computer.

And now for about 2 years I use Transferwise from the comfort of my home.

I make the transfer around 8 a.m., the funds are on my bank-account around 2 p.m..

For some it goes even quicker.

 

Transferwise, in general, is going to be more expensive, and the costs vary by country, because they're charging a funding fee and then a commission on the amount sent....

 

But as you pointed out, sometimes trying to do a counter withdrawal here can be a real headache of clueless, uncooperative staff, card machines they claim they can't get to work properly, etc etc....  I've had a lot of headaches with that thru the years, which is why I prefer to stick to no-fee ATM transactions... But then again, I don't need more than 30K per shot.

 

[Eindhoven]

Just now, luckyluke said:

I used this way for a long time.

Bank staff usually don't like it, it is time consuming. They have to use the credit Card device, some can't handle it properly and of course they claim there is something wrong with your C.C..

Then for one or another reason they can not put the funds directly to my bank account. Instead I received the money in cash, and had to sign for it. Than have to fill in a form that I transfer the funds to my bank account, than my bankbook is updated.

All this can't apparently not been done by the same employee, so different staff are involved plus a manager who has to sign in in the computer.

And now for about 2 years I use Transferwise from the comfort of my home.

I make the transfer around 8 a.m., the funds are on my bank-account around 2 p.m..

For some it goes even quicker.

 

I think that you are generalising. I have no problem with bank staff. Some banks will do it and some won't. But the ones that do make no issue of it at all. Sometimes they even come around the counter for a friendly chat.

Never something wrong with my card, unless there is.

Nothing wrong with receiving the cash and then handing it back to them. Seems thatyou are a bit difficult and you want everything streamlined just for you. ???? 

 

TransferWise has it's place. If it's more convenient for you, that's great. But no need to disparage bank staff along the way. I have a generally good experience every time.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Not quite, since most debit cards will be rejected for cash advances or an admin charge would be applied(SCB). In general you need a no-fee credit card.

Of course if it is a no-fee card, you won't have to check for hidden forex fees. Not sure quite what you were thinking when you wrote that.

Don't think SCB do anything with the rate, but they do apply a 180 baht Admin Charge, so one should avoid them at the best of times.

 

SCB specifically has a lower exchange rate for foreign card counter withdrawals, AFAIK...

 

Some banks claim THEY don't charge any FCF, when in fact, they're actually passing along/charging the 1% FCF that the MC and VISA networks nominally charge. That's what I meant by "hidden" fees... You actually need to test the real exchange rate you're getting, not just what the bank staff tells you.

 

[Eindhoven]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Transferwise, in general, is going to be more expensive, and the costs vary by country, because they're charging a funding fee and then a commission on the amount sent....

 

But as you pointed out, sometimes trying to do a counter withdrawal here can be a real headache of clueless, uncooperative staff, card machines they claim they can't get to work properly, etc etc....  I've had a lot of headaches with that thru the years, which is why I prefer to stick to no-fee ATM transactions... But then again, I don't need more than 30K per shot.

 

 

Perhaps different for me, as I use the same bank every time. Perhaps not the same if you have to find a new bank whilst travelling.

[Eindhoven]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

SCB specifically has a lower exchange rate for foreign card counter withdrawals, AFAIK...

 

Some banks claim THEY don't charge any FCF, when in fact, they're actually passing along/charging the 1% FCF that the MC and VISA networks nominally charge. That's what I meant by "hidden" fees... You actually need to test the real exchange rate you're getting, not just what the bank staff tells you.

 

 

Erm...no. The banks that charge 1%, state that they charge 1%. The ones that do not, do not.

That is with my extensive experience of U.K banks. Perhaps different in your country.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Perhaps different for me, as I use the same bank every time. Perhaps not the same if you have to find a new bank whilst travelling.

 

Assuming you're talking about counter withdrawals. IME, it's a cr*p shoot here... not anything consistent from company to company or even branch to branch.  Anytime you walk in a branch, you're taking your chances, unless/until you can find one that consistently knows what they're doing.

 

[Eindhoven]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

SCB specifically has a lower exchange rate for foreign card counter withdrawals, AFAIK...

 

Some banks claim THEY don't charge any FCF, when in fact, they're actually passing along/charging the 1% FCF that the MC and VISA networks nominally charge. That's what I meant by "hidden" fees... You actually need to test the real exchange rate you're getting, not just what the bank staff tells you.

 

 

Bank staff don't tell me anything. I check the T&C and hold them to it. No hidden charges. Everything is as stated in the T&C.

Let me know of any bank that you know that does not conform. I will check their T&C.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Erm...no. The banks that charge 1%, state that they charge 1%. The ones that do not, do not.

That is with my extensive experience of U.K banks. Perhaps different in your country.

 

 

I can't speak to the UK banks. But the U.S. banks can be quite cagey about that... As I said above, many will say THEY don't charge any FCF, when in fact they're passing along the VISA/MC network fee, which other true no-fee banks waive.

 

With the U.S. banks, such things are not usually listed in terms and conditions, but rather, in a separate bank fee schedule. And because it's not the BANK that's charging the FCF, some don't list any FCF on their fee schedule, even when they're passing along the 1% fee.

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Eindhoven]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Assuming you're talking about counter withdrawals. IME, it's a cr*p shoot here... not anything consistent from company to company or even branch to branch.  Anytime you walk in a branch, you're taking your chances, unless/until you can find one that consistently knows what they're doing.

 

 

That's what I do. Always same branch. No need to seek out others if this one works and is efficient.

[Pib]

7 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Not quite, since most debit cards will be rejected for cash advances or an admin charge would be applied(SCB). In general you need a no-fee credit card.

Of course if it is a no-fee card, you won't have to check for hidden forex fees. Not sure quite what you were thinking when you wrote that.

Don't think SCB do anything with the rate, but they do apply a 180 baht Admin Charge, so one should avoid them at the best of times.

 

 

I haven't had any recent issues or fees when using my US debit cards at Bangkok Bank or Krungsri Bank to do counter withdrawal (a.k.a., cash advance although it not really a cash advance for a debit card but is for a credit card).  But a couple years ago the Bangkok Bank I typically used didn't want to do counter withdrawals for a debit card; but gladly did it for credit cards.  But since then they have changed their attitude....maybe just a branch management thing.

 

And definitely watch out if using SCB for counter withdrawals/cash advances as they provide a lower rate for credit cards...attempt the DCC thing....take a look at the bottom of the Foreign Exchange Rate webpage.

https://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-banking/foreign-exchange-rates.html

 

[Eindhoven]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The U.S. banks can't be quite cagey about that... As I said above, many will say THEY don't charge any FCF, when in fact they're passing along the VISA/MC network fee, which other true no-fee banks waive.

 

 

I don't have any experience with US products. But I do have a UK credit card that explicitly states that they pass on the 1% VISA charge for transactions outside Europe. Needless to state that I do not use that particular card outside of Europe.

So everything is made clear in the UK.

[Eindhoven]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

I haven't had any recent issues or fees when using my US debit cards at Bangkok Bank or Krungsri Bank to do counter withdrawal (a.k.a., cash advance although it not really a cash advance for a debit card but is for a credit card).  But a couple years ago the Bangkok Bank I typically used didn't want to do counter withdrawals for a debit card; but gladly did it for credit cards.  But since then they have changed their attitude....maybe just a branch management thing.

 

And definitely watch out if using SCB for counter withdrawals/cash advances as they provide a lower rate for credit cards...attempt the DCC thing....take a look at the bottom of the Foreign Exchange Rate webpage.

https://www.scb.co.th/en/personal-banking/foreign-exchange-rates.html

 

 

Certainly looks that way. The worst bank in Thailand. I know you do your research. 

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

I have a generally good experience every time.

Good for you.

Not my experience, apparently neither for another poster.

So we can conclude that, as for Immigration offices and officers, each of us has different experiences.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Don't think SCB do anything with the rate, but they do apply a 180 baht Admin Charge, so one should avoid them at the best of times.

 

 

@Pib might know better, but I believe there may also be some other Thai bank companies that have taken to charging some kinds of extra fees for counter withdrawal transactions.  But SCB was first and worst about it, AFAIK.

 

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

@Pib might know better, but I believe there may also be some other Thai bank companies that have taken to charging some kinds of extra fees for counter withdrawal transactions.  But SCB was first and worst about it, AFAIK.

 

Yea, some others do.  For example Krungsri will apply a Bt200 fee for a counter withdrawal using a Visa card; but no fee for a Mastercard/UnionPay/etc.

 

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/getmedia/0be3967e-98d1-40a8-ac41-07204f3576c0/electronics-banking-service-fees-19052020-en.aspx

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yea, some others do.  For example Krungsri will apply a Bt200 fee for a counter withdrawal using a Visa card; but no fee for a Mastercard/UnionPay/etc.

 

https://www.krungsri.com/bank/getmedia/0be3967e-98d1-40a8-ac41-07204f3576c0/electronics-banking-service-fees-19052020-en.aspx

 

Thanks Pib... that's exactly what I was vaguely recalling above from our past conversations... a Krungsri fee on one type of card, but not on the other... oddly....

 

And of course, someone walking into a Krungsri branch wanting to do a counter withdrawal probably is not going to have any idea that that's their policy... and may or may not be told about the fee when they go to do the transaction.

 

As I said above, you really gotta be careful in dealing with this banking stuff here, both on your home country end of things, and on the Thai end of things... Because there's various ways things can go wrong in terms of fee exposure.

Edited July 3, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

39 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Not quite, since most debit cards will be rejected for cash advances or an admin charge would be applied(SCB). In general you need a no-fee credit card.

Of course if it is a no-fee card, you won't have to check for hidden forex fees. Not sure quite what you were thinking when you wrote that.

Don't think SCB do anything with the rate, but they do apply a 180 baht Admin Charge, so one should avoid them at the best of times.

 

 

 

Yeap...the best me and google translate can figure out from the SCB fee schedule only in Thai they don't do cash advances/counter withdrawals for debit cards; but will for a credit card at a Bt180 fee.

https://www.scb.co.th/content/dam/scb/personal-banking/rates-fees/others/card-and-electronics-fees/card-and-electronics-fees.pdf

[Eindhoven]

48 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Good for you.

Not my experience, apparently neither for another poster.

So we can conclude that, as for Immigration offices and officers, each of us has different experiences.  

 

As I told you, twice, it is because I go to the same bank and counter each time. Nothing about which to complain. 

[luckyluke]

Just now, Eindhoven said:

 

As I told you, twice, it is because I go to the same bank and counter each time. Nothing about which to complain. 

I did the same, but there was regularly new staff, even manager.

But we both happy.

You, because no problems at your bank branch.

I, because I use Transferwise now.

[DogNo1]

The Central stores in Bangkok now use new SCB credit card charging terminals.  They give the clerk the option of charging you in Thai Baht or in US Dollars at the SCB exchange rate. I have a US credit card with no foreign exchange fee so I always want to be charged in Thai Baht.  I was recently charged in USD and didn't catch it until I got home.  Now I always tell the checker that I want to pay in THB.   I suppose foreigners whose banks charge foreign exchange fees may save money by paying in dollars but the exchange fee charged by SCB is over two baht per dollar.  Is this new system a benefit for some people or just a ripoff for the unwary?