23 hours ago, chilli42 said:

I would add to this that the most dedicated conservationists who actively support and fund conservation are hunters.

good one.  let's conserve them by killing them.  Something tells me that there is some weird logic in that justification. Its like the prats in Scotland who convince themselves that they are saving Stags by killing them,  They are killing them because they enjoy doing so and because the stags screw up their other killing, that of other game. I just wish they would be honest.  At least you are being partly honest in your views. 

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

that isn't at all logical.  if humans weren't around then animals would have more space.  It's the over population of humans that causes the problem, not the other animals. No other animal is as destructive to the Earth as the human.   You must be one of these arrogant religious lot who think that this mythical God of yours created the world just for you and your like.  Sorry to disappoint you, but science and the natural world don't work like that.  

It's totally logical. Look up carrying capacity so you'll understand. Of course it's overpopulation of humans that causes most problems. I said that. Humans are encroaching on and developing land that is meant for wildlife. Certain humans don't care what they destroy, as long as they get paid. This is why hunting is the only logical means of keeping the deer (pests to many) under control. If you lived near deer you would see what kind of destruction they do if their habitat is lessened. I'm neither arrogant or a religious zealot. Just a believer in God. Someone you'll meet someday. And sorry to burst your bubble, but you haven't the slightest idea about animals and what needs to be done to both protect them, and protect them from themselves. If humans weren't around? Well, we are around, and the highest form of life on the planet. We come first, and to some that means killing everything in your way. To others like myself, that means conservation for both us and the animals. Species are lost almost everyday on earth, and yes, it's human fault. There are those that want to save our planet, but money usually buys that off, at least until the rich that are destroying the planet are exterminated. You have to read up on animal science and what they do and need from this planet before you take a side and spout ignorance. Some animals are here for us to eat. Some are for us to domesticate, and some are for us to enjoy and leave alone to their own devices. The world is overpopulated and that means, until the population growth is stopped or reversed, that we have to learn to live together with animals. I said this before, "There are more deer now than ever before in history". Hunting and hunters don't decimate them. Land developers hurt more species than hunters ever could. Hunters pay for licenses, money that goes towards habitat restoration and game wardens to regulate harvests. Don't assume. Read and research. Then make your judgements.

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

good one.  let's conserve them by killing them.  Something tells me that there is some weird logic in that justification. Its like the prats in Scotland who convince themselves that they are saving Stags by killing them,  They are killing them because they enjoy doing so and because the stags screw up their other killing, that of other game. I just wish they would be honest.  At least you are being partly honest in your views. 

Again, READ before you reply. Read about what happened on the Kaibab Plateau. It was in my post. I'm not being partly honest. I'm just right. Tell me how the Stags of Scotland screw up others hunting. People kill deer for two reasons, Food and the trophy, neither of which is wrong. The trophy animal has been alive to sire other deer, reaching his peak, and then he goes on a wall to be admired, and his body to be eaten. If deer are not hunted, they overpopulate, starve, spread disease, and die a slow ,painful death. This is a better choice?

26 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

It's totally logical. Look up carrying capacity so you'll understand. Of course it's overpopulation of humans that causes most problems. I said that. Humans are encroaching on and developing land that is meant for wildlife. Certain humans don't care what they destroy, as long as they get paid. This is why hunting is the only logical means of keeping the deer (pests to many) under control. If you lived near deer you would see what kind of destruction they do if their habitat is lessened. I'm neither arrogant or a religious zealot. Just a believer in God. Someone you'll meet someday. And sorry to burst your bubble, but you haven't the slightest idea about animals and what needs to be done to both protect them, and protect them from themselves. If humans weren't around? Well, we are around, and the highest form of life on the planet. We come first, and to some that means killing everything in your way. To others like myself, that means conservation for both us and the animals. Species are lost almost everyday on earth, and yes, it's human fault. There are those that want to save our planet, but money usually buys that off, at least until the rich that are destroying the planet are exterminated. You have to read up on animal science and what they do and need from this planet before you take a side and spout ignorance. Some animals are here for us to eat. Some are for us to domesticate, and some are for us to enjoy and leave alone to their own devices. The world is overpopulated and that means, until the population growth is stopped or reversed, that we have to learn to live together with animals. I said this before, "There are more deer now than ever before in history". Hunting and hunters don't decimate them. Land developers hurt more species than hunters ever could. Hunters pay for licenses, money that goes towards habitat restoration and game wardens to regulate harvests. Don't assume. Read and research. Then make your judgements.

Listen to yourself.  'They encroach on us humans',  so kill them, Didn't Hitler have the same view about some other humans? .  "We came first", no we didn't.  We have been around for less than 4 million years, other animals for many hundreds of years.  We were last, not first.  Meet a God? I can't meet someone who doesn't exist mate and neither will you.   Exterminate the rich?  Ah, now I see why you need your gun. So my mighty hunter, do I need to guess how in your view, we should "stop or reverse population growth".  I can bet what your idea will be. Another trophy on the wall of your dug out?   Oh my friend, I have made my judgement of your and your kind many decades ago.   I met a few of them in the Military, mercifully few.  They were always the people you couldn't trust and stayed away from, until they were found out and thank fully discharged. 

Just now, Pilotman said:

Listen to yourself.  'They encroach on us humans',  so kill them, Didn't Hitler have the same view about some other humans? .  "We came first", no we didn't.  We have been around for less than 4 million years, other animals for many hundreds of years.  We were last, not first.  Meet a God? I can't meet someone who doesn't exist mate and neither will you.   Exterminate the rich?  Ah, now I see why you need your gun. So my mighty hunter, do I need to guess how in your view, we should "stop or reverse population growth".  I can bet what your idea will be. Another trophy on the wall of your dug out?   Oh my friend, I have made my judgement of your and your kind many decades ago.   I met a few of them in the Military, mercifully few.  They were always the people you couldn't trust and stayed away from, until they were found out and thank fully discharged. 

I didn't say we came first. As the highest form of intelligence on the planet, we COME first. God's design. Oh well, you don't believe in God so you don't get that. Stopping population growth only comes from education. Education of the young who are having babies with boys who aren't going to stick around anyway. Having babies then giving them away because you don't want the responsibility. Using birth control so irresponsible children don't have these babies with irresponsible children. Of course, this doesn't work like it should, but it's all we have, at least for now. People like sex, and most that have it aren't responsible with the gift. Again you are assuming. You don't know nor understand "my kind". My kind contributes to animal welfare. How much does "your kind" contribute? You know, the ignorant ones that think hunting should be banned, and still don't understand why hunting is necessary. Like you, I've made a judgement about your kind. You haven't the slightest clue about what you are talking about, you haven't done any research into why hunting is necessary and why people hunt. You complain yet eat meat, without knowing where that meat comes from. You're a vegetarian and your heart bleeds for the poor animals that people eat. Yes, a deer is just like a cow. You give nothing towards habitat restoration like we hunters do, and you have the gall to judge us? The people you've met, the few, who might have been unstable, have nothing to do with me or anyone else in this world. You know very few people, no matter how old you are and where you've been. You don't know anyone's thoughts unless you can read minds. You making judgements on a few people then putting everyone who hunts or shoots a gun in that category is both ignorant and arrogant. As far as believing in God, you'll need to drop that. I can't prove he exists and neither can you prove he doesn't. As far as what I said about exterminating those that are raping the earth, it was a figure of speech, but with a little truth in it. If you had a choice to save the world for the billions or let a few destroy it like they are, what would you do?

9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I didn't say we came first. As the highest form of intelligence on the planet, we COME first. God's design. Oh well, you don't believe in God so you don't get that. Stopping population growth only comes from education. Education of the young who are having babies with boys who aren't going to stick around anyway. Having babies then giving them away because you don't want the responsibility. Using birth control so irresponsible children don't have these babies with irresponsible children. Of course, this doesn't work like it should, but it's all we have, at least for now. People like sex, and most that have it aren't responsible with the gift. Again you are assuming. You don't know nor understand "my kind". My kind contributes to animal welfare. How much does "your kind" contribute? You know, the ignorant ones that think hunting should be banned, and still don't understand why hunting is necessary. Like you, I've made a judgement about your kind. You haven't the slightest clue about what you are talking about, you haven't done any research into why hunting is necessary and why people hunt. You complain yet eat meat, without knowing where that meat comes from. You're a vegetarian and your heart bleeds for the poor animals that people eat. Yes, a deer is just like a cow. You give nothing towards habitat restoration like we hunters do, and you have the gall to judge us? The people you've met, the few, who might have been unstable, have nothing to do with me or anyone else in this world. You know very few people, no matter how old you are and where you've been. You don't know anyone's thoughts unless you can read minds. You making judgements on a few people then putting everyone who hunts or shoots a gun in that category is both ignorant and arrogant. As far as believing in God, you'll need to drop that. I can't prove he exists and neither can you prove he doesn't. As far as what I said about exterminating those that are raping the earth, it was a figure of speech, but with a little truth in it. If you had a choice to save the world for the billions or let a few destroy it like they are, what would you do?

Well, we are around, and the highest form of life on the planet. We come first, 

 

Your quote matey. 'Come', 'came' amounts to the same thing in your argument.  I'm done with this post. I will add one more thing.  You do seem to have a 'thing' about deer.  Is this a fetish that up until now, I have been unaware of? They do seem to occupy an inordinate amount of your time and thinking. They are definitely quite cute. Okay if that is so, We are not ones to judge. 

11 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Well, we are around, and the highest form of life on the planet. We come first, 

 

Your quote matey. 'Come', 'came' amounts to the same thing in your argument.  I'm done with this post. I will add one more thing.  You do seem to have a 'thing' about deer.  Is this a fetish that up until now, I have been unaware of? They do seem to occupy an inordinate amount of your time and thinking. They are definitely quite cute. Okay if that is so, We are not ones to judge. 

No, come and came are totally different words, with two meanings. Yes, I have a "thing" about deer. I like to see a trophy on my wall to remind me of a hunt (something anti hunters will never understand) and i like venison burgers, chops, roasts and steaks. Labeling it a fetish shows your kind of thinking. Do you know me? Have we ever met? Again, you assume things without any prior knowledge but a few typed words in a forum. I'm almost 64, and you assume deer take up an inordinate amount of my time? Have you been in my life for 64 years? No? So how would you know how much time or thinking a deer takes up in my life? I know drinking too much makes one jump to conclusions and act from emotions, but that couldn't be you right? I don't know, because I don't know you. I've just seen replies from an anti hunter that, like all the others, doesn't understand. Along with something else you may not understand. I am and always have been, an animal lover. having dogs and cats, and now 2 ducks and three chickens and taken care of them. I even have to get on my wife's case at times because she and her family, although pet owners, are sometimes cruel to them and treat them as less than they are. I love animals, and i hunt, and that might really confuse you.

Who does this guy think he is?  Dick Cheney? ????

Good riddance.

 

Same to all who find pleasure/fun/sport in killing their fellow animals.

Hmm, if only I could get my noisy neighbors out there. I already suspect them to be animals, so we're half-way there.