Here Is Proof The Bangkok Condo Market Is Still Booming

[quiksilva]

Not sure what you mean by "the river" half way between the Chaophraya and Thonglor puts you somewhere around Wireless..

On the whole I have found that the Japanese prefer the area in and around Emporium

[pkrv]

quiksilva - Opps my mistake (I am actually quite dyslexic) Thong Lo station is the area I had in mind is this where Emporium is?

[Livinginexile]

quiksilva - Opps my mistake (I am actually quite dyslexic) Thong Lo station is the area I had in mind is this where Emporium is?

Emporium is at Phrom Phong BTS, just one stop from Thong Lo.

[craigt3365]

OK you guys - now don't come too quick (here or wherever - not here for sure, OK?)..stamina, stamina!

Let's wait to see how many of these projects have actually been fully-paid-up and completed and not the 'fully sold out!' Bull Sh+t that we see over and over, ok?? "OH...Yes I'll Buy! Sold Out, Sold Out - here's my 20,000 baht deposit, krap Pee!"

ya, ya....we'll see.

I went to that Issara opening last weekend at Paragon. It was packed. To buy a condo in their developments, you have to put 10% down. So, a 4.5M Baht condo requires 450,000 baht down upon signing. Not chump change. One of their developments, in Cha-am, has you also paying about 100,000 baht a month for 17 months, then the final payment upon completion (17 months from now, and about 35%).

I am not sure of what the payment plans were for the Ladprao project, but assume they are similar. I don't see these buyers backing out with that type of committment.

[Livinginexile]

OK you guys - now don't come too quick (here or wherever - not here for sure, OK?)..stamina, stamina!

Let's wait to see how many of these projects have actually been fully-paid-up and completed and not the 'fully sold out!' Bull Sh+t that we see over and over, ok?? "OH...Yes I'll Buy! Sold Out, Sold Out - here's my 20,000 baht deposit, krap Pee!"

ya, ya....we'll see.

I went to that Issara opening last weekend at Paragon. It was packed. To buy a condo in their developments, you have to put 10% down. So, a 4.5M Baht condo requires 450,000 baht down upon signing. Not chump change. One of their developments, in Cha-am, has you also paying about 100,000 baht a month for 17 months, then the final payment upon completion (17 months from now, and about 35%).

I am not sure of what the payment plans were for the Ladprao project, but assume they are similar. I don't see these buyers backing out with that type of committment.

Correct;

My employer has just secured a studio apartment for me in Dubai...he waited 10 mths to get it, thats how drastic the rental accomodation situation is there.

Same in Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai...etc etc.

We are seeing a big flowon effect here in Bangkok at the high end.

These boom and bust cycles usually occur every 10-15 years. Last bust was in 97. We are primed for the next one right now.

I believe the smart money is positioning itself at the moment.

4.5M Baht will seem very very cheap soon.

[merlion]

What happened to bingoblunder? He missing in action?

[backflip]

"My employer has just secured a studio apartment for me in Dubai...he waited 10 mths to get it, thats how drastic the rental accomodation situation is there. Same in Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai..."

Absolute baloney. I live in Shanghai, and it takes all of 30 minutes to find an apartment there. Whether you want to spend $500US/month or $10,000US/month for housing, there is a huge inventory.

[bingobongo]

reality can be painful when financial decisions are made based on emotions rather than rational though. isn't it ironic that most people will look for bargains on staples such as food and balk at overpaying for fruit or vegtables and look for a sale, but when it comes to one of the biggest purchases someone makes (in this case housing) they will always overpay, i guess that is becasue when you buy food there are no emotions involved.....oh well, dumb money will always be dumb money

forget housing, buy gold, gold is recognized world over as a store of wealth.........unlike condos in bangkok

todays news..........

Your money >> Monday July 16, 2007

INVESTING PROPERTY AND OFFSHORE HOLDINGS

Supply glut feared on local condo front

The Thai property scene is getting ''scary'' and may be headed for a supply glut with scores of new developments over the next two years putting too many condominiums on the market, says Trevor Keidan, director of Infinity Financial Solutions.

While the company provides financial planning services for expatriates and does not deal with local investing, Mr Keidan has been carefully watching the Thai real estate market with a view to purchasing a property, which he recently did after having a 1997-style setback.

Prior to the recent purchase of a four-bedroom house close to Suvarnabhumi Airport, Mr Keidan had booked a townhouse with a well-known developer. It was meant to be completed last December and even today it is not ready. When he terminated the contract and demanded a refund of the more than one million baht he had paid, this company did not want to do so.

Eventually he got his money back after going to court. ''They gave it back in three post-dated cheques, they couldn't even afford to refund my one million baht.''

What concerns Mr Keidan is the lack of honesty, which hurts the market as a whole while also putting buyers at serious risk.

Buyers seem to have forgotten the lessons of 1997 when thousands of people lost their down-payments as developers and builders went bankrupt, with settlement generally being minuscule or non-existent because banks had prior claim to any remaining assets.

''It's very relevant, it's very prevalent and people have forgotten because now it's the good times, when things are booming.''

Mr Keidan is also sceptical about the real investment potential at a time when a glut is looming.

''The majority of buyers are hoping for rental returns but how many people are going to rent? This is a problem. People are spending 8-10 million baht on a one- or two-bedroom apartment, yet rental prices haven't gone up dramatically.

''At least, they have gone up but you can rent a nice two-bedroom apartment for 35,000 to 40,000 baht. Once you take into account that it cost you 8-10 million baht and then you look at the cost of running it ... maintenance and everything else, you're not left with a great return _ 3-4%, I think, is what people are getting.

''I don't see short-term massive capital gains, and that is my personal view.''

The other big issue in the Thai real estate market is that Thais do not like to buy used property, so resale values are not high. ''The problem is that you can't continue building, there is going to come a point, so I do think the used market has a lot of room to grow.''

Switching to the global markets where Infinity handles investments for many expat clients, Mr Keidan is very bullish on India and Russia for the coming decade. ''China is another one but it has a lot of transparency issues that concern me personally _ but people have done very well from China.''

In the region, Vietnam shows huge potential. ''The growth is incredible but I do believe there is a big bubble looming over there [in] the stock exchange.''

Mr Keidan added that the region's sleeping giant of the next decade could be Cambodia. ''There is a lot of development going on there and there is a lot happening, there is gold mining, there is oil. So Cambodia may have gold and oil but it is very undeveloped, it hasn't even got a stock exchange yet.''

However, he added that these are quite high-risk markets with the risk in Russia being what direction the country will take after the next election.

''But our advice in terms of where people should invest is very dependent on several factors: the clients' needs, their investment time horizons, attitude to risk and their ability to handle risk.

''One of the best ways to minimise risk is to invest through a regular savings plan _ rather than investing $50,000 at once you invest $1,000 a month. And what that does is it benefits from unit-cost averaging. In other words, when prices fall in volatile markets you buy cheaper and when they go up those cheaper units go up more, so you average down your net unit cost.''The investments Infinity offers are generally tax-efficient, in secure jurisdiction such as the Isle of Man, and the Channel Islands _ Guernsey and Jersey.

Infinity also believes in commodities including gold. Mr Keidan pointed out that the 20-year high for the precious metal is $733 compared to the current level of $665. If one were to inflation-adjust the 20-year high of $733 it would be around $1,000, which substantially widens the gap.

Food commodities are interesting given demand in increasingly affluent India and China, as are natural resources and energy. There are now funds that invest in companies looking alternative sources of energy and water. ''Water is a big player, there is only a limited amount of clean water in this world.''

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Yourmoney/16Jul2007_money48.php

[pkrv]

Bingo - have you ever considered that if you put money into property it does not go to the type of financial services company you have quoted from - they couldn't possibly have an agenda by any chance?

Edited July 16, 2007 by pkrv

[quiksilva]

A financial services sales man is being quoted as an authority on the Thai real estate market. What is this world coming to? I suppose dumb commentary will always be dumb commentary too.

The references to 1997 clearly illustrate this guys value. Cookies to anyone who can show me the similarity between the property market then and now and qualify their statements with hard numbers.

The guy mentions too many condos coming on stream but doesn't qualify his statements with independent statistics or fresh analysis of existing supply side numbers or quantify demand in any meaningful way. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets his facts on Thai Visa.

Again, I am not saying that the market is all a great big bed of roses, its not. There are problems. Here I'll throw you a bone bingo Eg. A strong Baht is not healthy for the condo market. Discuss.

Edited July 17, 2007 by quiksilva

[pkrv]

A strong Baht is not healthy for the condo market. Discuss.

60.89 GBPTHB as of this moment - This will directly hurt me, and is an important consideration when buying off the plan (payment in several years time) - you cannot predict this - make plans for the worst then add some!

This has got to be hitting the Thai economy on all fronts 64 or 65 has been a long term average.

[pkrv]

I actually have access to the live global FX trading environment and have in the past compared it to a UK company World First - the comparison was close and as a matter of course I have recently used the World First rates as indicative.

However at this moment the GBPTHB= instrument is 67.6300/25 this is the market rate and world First (who I have in the past relied on) is now 61.745.

Time to revisit an old thread on the best exchange rates I think!

[pkrv]

I should have guessed that there would be a Thai Visa expert who could assit/explain on the exchange rate difference:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=127371

Due to BOT rules it looks like you are effectivly forced to convert in Thailand or suffer heavy penalties. Not a problem but a bit more messy.

[bingobongo]

so if Thais are stealing from Thais, how are the farangs Donald Trump wannabes treated........go to LOS for females, food, fun.........and fraud?

CONSUMER PROTECTION SURVEY FINDING

90% of businesses exploiting customers

Ayutthaya _ Nine out of 10 businesses take advantage of consumers, with housing estates , gold shops and used-car dealerships topping the complaints list, a survey by the Office of the Consumer Protection Board has found. OCPB deputy secretary-general Niroth Charoenprakob said that in most cases the quality of products was exaggerated in advertisements.

Many complaints were directed at housing estate projects. Developers failed to keep promises made in advertisements or agreements, especially regarding the use of construction materials and building quality. Mr Niroth was speaking at an OCPB mobile meeting on consumer rights in Ayutthaya yesterday.

Many buyers could not transfer ownership of the houses because the developers had mortgaged the land or were not the real owners.

Other buyers made the down payment and then could not get a loan from a creditor because the developer was in financial trouble.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/19Jul2007_news14.php

[Prakanong]

Saw and Advert for a Condo in Suk Soi 50 in the Straits Times yesterday at 95k SGD (2 million THB).

Not high end I know but its interesting how they are going for the Singapore market now. In fact you could not get a loan from UOB down here for this.

Well I used to live up that street and they are having an exhibition in the Marriot Orchard on Sat and Sunday. My pal and I are probably going to pop along as we are not doing anything and the bar there has one of the cheapest pints of Stella working out at 8 SGD a pint 1 for 1 ;-)

I wonder how they will answer foreign ownership and other questions

[jumnien]

I really don't think many farangs are affected by housing estates, gold shops and used car dealers now are we? We can't even buy into the housing estates, remember? We are well protected by Thai law from any problems regarding houses. This threads about condos...

[PattayaAddict]

For some reason to me that picture in the property doesnt looks right ,why advise the whole world that you basically sold evrything that you had ? AS a MD of a company as a marketing strategy the first thing you would do is never advise that all has been sold ,if theres no sign theres interest to contact the builder ?even for another property in the builders portfolio ?

I dunno , could be the way they do things down in Bkk

Edited July 19, 2007 by PattayaAddict

[quiksilva]

Saw and Advert for a Condo in Suk Soi 50 in the Straits Times yesterday at 95k SGD (2 million THB).

Not high end I know but its interesting how they are going for the Singapore market now. In fact you could not get a loan from UOB down here for this.

Well I used to live up that street and they are having an exhibition in the Marriot Orchard on Sat and Sunday. My pal and I are probably going to pop along as we are not doing anything and the bar there has one of the cheapest pints of Stella working out at 8 SGD a pint 1 for 1 ;-)

I wonder how they will answer foreign ownership and other questions

Foreign ownership position is clear. If its a condo within the 49% of foreign ownership quota you can enjoy full ownership of the freehold interest.

[pkrv]

For some reason to me that picture in the property doesnt looks right ,why advise the whole world that you basically sold evrything that you had ? AS a MD of a company as a marketing strategy the first thing you would do is never advise that all has been sold ,if theres no sign theres interest to contact the builder ?even for another property in the builders portfolio ?

I dunno , could be the way they do things down in Bkk

Perhaps the answer is that the property market is not a milking machine - in order to make money they have to move on and actually do something.

[Prakanong]

Saw and Advert for a Condo in Suk Soi 50 in the Straits Times yesterday at 95k SGD (2 million THB).

Not high end I know but its interesting how they are going for the Singapore market now. In fact you could not get a loan from UOB down here for this.

Well I used to live up that street and they are having an exhibition in the Marriot Orchard on Sat and Sunday. My pal and I are probably going to pop along as we are not doing anything and the bar there has one of the cheapest pints of Stella working out at 8 SGD a pint 1 for 1 ;-)

I wonder how they will answer foreign ownership and other questions

Foreign ownership position is clear. If its a condo within the 49% of foreign ownership quota you can enjoy full ownership of the freehold interest.

I know that and my pal who is looking to buy in Bangkok knows it too but I wondr what these "exhibitors" say?

[pkrv]

Saw and Advert for a Condo in Suk Soi 50 in the Straits Times yesterday at 95k SGD (2 million THB).

Not high end I know but its interesting how they are going for the Singapore market now. In fact you could not get a loan from UOB down here for this.

Well I used to live up that street and they are having an exhibition in the Marriot Orchard on Sat and Sunday. My pal and I are probably going to pop along as we are not doing anything and the bar there has one of the cheapest pints of Stella working out at 8 SGD a pint 1 for 1 ;-)

I wonder how they will answer foreign ownership and other questions

Foreign ownership position is clear. If its a condo within the 49% of foreign ownership quota you can enjoy full ownership of the freehold interest.

I know that and my pal who is looking to buy in Bangkok knows it too but I wondr what these "exhibitors" say?

"If they lie don't buy" - "If you understand pass it on" - interesting isn't it?

[Prakanong]

Saw and Advert for a Condo in Suk Soi 50 in the Straits Times yesterday at 95k SGD (2 million THB).

Not high end I know but its interesting how they are going for the Singapore market now. In fact you could not get a loan from UOB down here for this.

Well I used to live up that street and they are having an exhibition in the Marriot Orchard on Sat and Sunday. My pal and I are probably going to pop along as we are not doing anything and the bar there has one of the cheapest pints of Stella working out at 8 SGD a pint 1 for 1 ;-)

I wonder how they will answer foreign ownership and other questions

Foreign ownership position is clear. If its a condo within the 49% of foreign ownership quota you can enjoy full ownership of the freehold interest.

I know that and my pal who is looking to buy in Bangkok knows it too but I wondr what these "exhibitors" say?

"If they lie don't buy" - "If you understand pass it on" - interesting isn't it?

Exactly my dear chap.

This company is advertising a lot in the Singapore papers and having exhibitions every couple of weeks which I can imagine are not cheap given the location

My pal is looking for something more than 2 million though so if we go it will be just to check it out and I will probably be in the area anyway - I have to take some colleagues who are flying in to some bar's on Sunday afternoon and Bar None or whatever it is in the Marriot is a good place for a Stella

[bingobongo]

why invest with a junta, bombings, and economy going in the tank when you do not have too......

PROPERTY FOR EXPAT RETIREES IN THAILAND FACE GROWING REGIONAL COMPETETION

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/showfeatur...reID=0000000517

[Livinginexile]

"My employer has just secured a studio apartment for me in Dubai...he waited 10 mths to get it, thats how drastic the rental accomodation situation is there. Same in Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai..."

Absolute baloney. I live in Shanghai, and it takes all of 30 minutes to find an apartment there. Whether you want to spend $500US/month or $10,000US/month for housing, there is a huge inventory.

Absolute baloney?

Read these extracts for yourself, then tell me if it's still baloney.

http://www.zawya.com/Story.cfm/sidZAWYA20070523064419

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/11/27/10085616.html

23 May 2007

"Dubai has emerged as the 14th most expensive city for rent accommodation in a global survey which is dominated by Asian cities.

Hong Kong is the world's most expensive city to rent accommodation and Asia accounts for five of the world's top ten most costly cities, according to a survey conducted by ECA International, the world's leading knowledge and solutions provider for international HR professionals."

Still baloney?

[Livinginexile]

"My employer has just secured a studio apartment for me in Dubai...he waited 10 mths to get it, thats how drastic the rental accomodation situation is there. Same in Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai..."

Absolute baloney. I live in Shanghai, and it takes all of 30 minutes to find an apartment there. Whether you want to spend $500US/month or $10,000US/month for housing, there is a huge inventory.

"Five of the top 10 most expensive locations in the world are in Asia, with Seoul (5th), Mumbai (7th) and Shanghai (8th) joining Hong Kong and Tokyo . New York, Moscow, London, Caracas and Paris make up the 10 most expensive cities globally to rent a three bedroom apartment.

High rental prices in Tokyo, New York, Seoul, Moscow, London and Paris largely reflect high living costs in these locations, while Mumbai, Shanghai and Beijing suffer from a shortage of modern, well equipped properties that meet expatriate standards, pushing prices up for those properties that do."

Comments backflip?

[bingobongo]

no need to rush......and there are other more stable places to buy......

Developers may offer discounts to foreigners as sales slow down

Vietnam offers 50-year leases and Malaysia offers five-year visas. In the face of such competition, she said, the government should be concerned as property is a major generator of income for the country

http://thailand-property-guide.com/?p=news...&NewsID=477

[Livinginexile]

no need to rush......and there are other more stable places to buy......

Developers may offer discounts to foreigners as sales slow down

Vietnam offers 50-year leases and Malaysia offers five-year visas. In the face of such competition, she said, the government should be concerned as property is a major generator of income for the country

http://thailand-property-guide.com/?p=news...&NewsID=477

Are you saying that Vietnam is a more stable place to invest than Thailand? A communist country were foreign freehold is illegal?

How can you say that?

[chownah]

no need to rush......and there are other more stable places to buy......

Developers may offer discounts to foreigners as sales slow down

Vietnam offers 50-year leases and Malaysia offers five-year visas. In the face of such competition, she said, the government should be concerned as property is a major generator of income for the country

http://thailand-property-guide.com/?p=news...&NewsID=477

Are you saying that Vietnam is a more stable place to invest than Thailand? A communist country were foreign freehold is illegal?

How can you say that?

Well lets see. Which country has had more coups in the last 30 years? Which country has had the steadiest and most consistent changes in fiscal and administrative policies in the last 30 years. Which country has had the most volatile economy in the last 30 years?

You decide which is more stable.

[pkrv]

no need to rush......and there are other more stable places to buy......

Developers may offer discounts to foreigners as sales slow down

Vietnam offers 50-year leases and Malaysia offers five-year visas. In the face of such competition, she said, the government should be concerned as property is a major generator of income for the country

http://thailand-property-guide.com/?p=news...&NewsID=477

Are you saying that Vietnam is a more stable place to invest than Thailand? A communist country were foreign freehold is illegal?

How can you say that?

Well lets see. Which country has had more coups in the last 30 years? Which country has had the steadiest and most consistent changes in fiscal and administrative policies in the last 30 years. Which country has had the most volatile economy in the last 30 years?

You decide which is more stable.

Law and stability is a tricky thing to measure - In the UK there are dropouts on the street, under Natzi controled Germany there were no dropouts and crime was 0, trains ran on time. It is only when you come to consider what crime is, that you redefine your views. (sorry off on one -PKRV )

Edited August 2, 2007 by pkrv

[obsession]

no need to rush......and there are other more stable places to buy......

Developers may offer discounts to foreigners as sales slow down

Vietnam offers 50-year leases and Malaysia offers five-year visas. In the face of such competition, she said, the government should be concerned as property is a major generator of income for the country

http://thailand-property-guide.com/?p=news...&NewsID=477

Are you saying that Vietnam is a more stable place to invest than Thailand? A communist country were foreign freehold is illegal?

How can you say that?

Well lets see. Which country has had more coups in the last 30 years? Which country has had the steadiest and most consistent changes in fiscal and administrative policies in the last 30 years. Which country has had the most volatile economy in the last 30 years?

You decide which is more stable.

Law and stability is a tricky thing to measure - In the UK there are dropouts on the street, under Natzi controled Germany there were no dropouts and crime was 0, trains ran on time. It is only when you come to consider what crime is, that you redefine your views. (sorry off on one -PKRV )

Classic. Its not hard to measure stability at all. Are you actually saying that los is as stable as Germany or the uk? So are you saying that you think Thailand has been stable recently,

And there are dropouts on the streets in los too. What has that got to do with investment stability?