US death toll at it lowest since early March, yet getting no coverage

[steelepulse]

According to the US CDC, covid deaths are at their lowest since March.  However, you would never know it by the constant barrage of " new cases" by the fear and scare mongers.  Why aren't they giving the news that the cases are the lowest seen in 4 months?  Are the news media just preying on fear and scare tactics?  

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

Edited July 27, 2020 by steelepulse

[bkk6060]

Concentrating on only "deaths" seems pretty short sided.

Good they are down, but cases way way up as are hospitalizations.

With this, many people who recover are having lingering, long term physical problems/issues after they are Covid negative.  It is very serious not the flu so down playing it seems dumb.

 

[scammed]

they know they knee jerked and are now at work rationalizing they destroyed economy

[steelepulse]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Concentrating on only "deaths" seems pretty short sided.

Good they are down, but cases way way up as are hospitalizations.

With this, many people who recover are having lingering, long term physical problems/issues after they are Covid negative.  It is very serious not the flu so down playing it seems dumb.

 

So why was the media concentrating on only "deaths" early on.  The media loved highlighting the death counts, yet never talked about actual ifr, nor the recovery rate.  They also didn't include such facts that the deaths from covid had a higher average age of death then pre covid times.

 

Seems short sighted of  the media not to cover any of this!

 

 

[scammed]

its a very unique virus in that the number of deaths below retirement is below 10%,

which is statistically insignificant,

from a herd perspective, this is all good news

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/

[chessman]

It’s also not true. Deaths in the USA have began to rise again.

[cmarshall]

It would be clearer if the graph included a trendline, but the US death rate is definitely increasing.

 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/coronavirus-deaths-united-states-each-day-2020-n1177936

[Yinn]

On 7/27/2020 at 10:25 AM, steelepulse said:

According to the US CDC, covid deaths are at their lowest since March.

BS

 

More every week for 4 weeks already.

 

the bleach not work.

 

[tonray]

[thaibeachlovers]

No news that helps a certain person will be published by the media that, IMO, hates him.

[utalkin2me]

On 7/27/2020 at 10:46 AM, steelepulse said:

So why was the media concentrating on only "deaths" early on.  The media loved highlighting the death counts, yet never talked about actual ifr, nor the recovery rate.  They also didn't include such facts that the deaths from covid had a higher average age of death then pre covid times.

 

Seems short sighted of  the media not to cover any of this!

 

 

It is obvious to anyone who wants to actually pay attention what is going on. Why they are doing it is another question.

 

Sweden's death numbers have basically dropped to non existent. They were covering Sweden a lot when they were at the peak. Now, when their policy has proven to have worked, it is crickets. 

 

Deaths are really the only reliable statistic too. Too many other things like ramping up testing influence other stats. It is not "short sighted" to focus on deaths. It is THE number everyone should be paying attention to. 

[utalkin2me]

On 7/30/2020 at 6:33 AM, Yinn said:

BS

 

More every week for 4 weeks already.

 

the bleach not work.

 

And what we are seeing there looks like a relatively mild second wave. But turn on the news and they are reporting armegeddon. 

[Bkk Brian]

What was the heading of this topic.............US death toll at lowest since March? Not anymore, record breaking death numbers in many states never seen before, the death stats are now beginning to catch up after the lag of new record positive cases:

 

 

[cmarshall]

8 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

It is obvious to anyone who wants to actually pay attention what is going on. Why they are doing it is another question.

 

Sweden's death numbers have basically dropped to non existent. They were covering Sweden a lot when they were at the peak. Now, when their policy has proven to have worked, it is crickets. 

 

Deaths are really the only reliable statistic too. Too many other things like ramping up testing influence other stats. It is not "short sighted" to focus on deaths. It is THE number everyone should be paying attention to. 

Sweden's having the 6th worst death rate per capita looks like success to you?

 

[Dcheech]

On 7/27/2020 at 10:25 AM, steelepulse said:

According to the US CDC, covid deaths are at their lowest since March.

 

Last week, the four days of 1000 plus deaths a day, was a new US record. Perhaps you need to make up a new post.

[utalkin2me]

21 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Sweden's having the 6th worst death rate per capita looks like success to you?

 

In the long run (which is all that matters). Yes. 

 

Every country will end up having similar "area under the curve" when it comes to deaths. Sweden's hospitals were never overrun. 

 

Sweden is past this. With their current numbers they will obviously be moving down your list, fast. If you don't think it is a success you have blinders on. What do you call 0-1 deaths a day? Failure it sounds like. Blinders. You are not alone. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by utalkin2me

[DrDave]

On 7/26/2020 at 11:45 PM, scammed said:

they know they knee jerked and are now at work rationalizing they destroyed economy

I believe there's some truth in that, along with several other agenda-driven reasons.

 

A couple of things to consider:

There's never been a full disclosure of what constitutes a death classified as a Covid death. I suspect that a significant percentage of what's reported as Covid deaths are not deaths were Covid is the actual, verifiable COD. I further suspect that any patient who has tested positive for Covid and subsequently dies for almost any reason is considered a Covid death.

 

Secondly, if one pays attention, the media focus has been on the terms "flatten the curve" and "slow the spread", and not "eliminate the curve" and "stop the spread".  "Flattening" and "Slowing" only prolong the situation. Those people who are mathematically inclined might recall from their calculus classes what the area under the curve represents. A steeper but shortened curve has the same area as a flatter but elongated curve, with the only real difference being the time element. The area under the curves represents total infections over time, with the flatter curve running for a much longer period of time compared to the steeper curve.

[geriatrickid]

On 7/26/2020 at 11:45 PM, scammed said:

they know they knee jerked and are now at work rationalizing they destroyed economy

Doesn't play to his political manipulation. No matter how many times  the point is made about long term physical damage and the costs of infection, he isn't listening. He is sticking to the talking points prepared by the Russian  psychological warfare and social disruption specialists.

[cmarshall]

48 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

In the long run (which is all that matters). Yes. 

 

Every country will end up having similar "area under the curve" when it comes to deaths. Sweden's hospitals were never overrun. 

 

Sweden is past this. With their current numbers they will obviously be moving down your list, fast. If you don't think it is a success you have blinders on. What do you call 0-1 deaths a day? Failure it sounds like. Blinders. You are not alone. 

Are you capable of understanding that even if the daily death rate in Sweden now drops to zero and stays there the deaths per million will not change at all?

 

If you think that S. Korea's deaths per million, for example, will rise from the current 5.8 to anything near Sweden's 562, then you are dealing in faith-based science.  

[cmarshall]

33 minutes ago, DrDave said:

I believe there's some truth in that, along with several other agenda-driven reasons.

 

A couple of things to consider:

There's never been a full disclosure of what constitutes a death classified as a Covid death. I suspect that a significant percentage of what's reported as Covid deaths are not deaths were Covid is the actual, verifiable COD. I further suspect that any patient who has tested positive for Covid and subsequently dies for almost any reason is considered a Covid death.

 

Secondly, if one pays attention, the media focus has been on the terms "flatten the curve" and "slow the spread", and not "eliminate the curve" and "stop the spread".  "Flattening" and "Slowing" only prolong the situation. Those people who are mathematically inclined might recall from their calculus classes what the area under the curve represents. A steeper but shortened curve has the same area as a flatter but elongated curve, with the only real difference being the time element. The area under the curves represents total infections over time, with the flatter curve running for a much longer period of time compared to the steeper curve.

The easy way to correct for errors in attributing deaths to Covid or failing to do so, is to ignore the designation altogether and only consider excess deaths against a five-year monthly average.  In every case that I have seen of analysis of excess deaths it exceeded Covid designated deaths.  Ergo, ipso facto, Covid is undercounted as a cause of death, not overcounted.

 

It is only if you restrict your attention to Western countries that the emphasis is on flattening the curve.  The simple reason for that is the Western countries' abject failure to contain the virus when they had the chance in the first place.  By contrast, the emphasis in S. Korea, Taiwan, China, Vietnam, New Zealand, Australia, and Thailand has been on containing and then exterminating the virus at which they all succeeded.  This is the reason that all of these countries report fewer than 10 deaths per million due to Covid compared to the Western countries which are in the hundreds.  As long as they continue to maintain the best practices of testing, isolating, and tracing contacts their death counts will never reach Western levels.

[mtls2005]

Not sure that chart in the OP is accurate?

 

1,465 people died in the U.S. on Wed. 

 

The last day on that chart shows ~ 650 deaths.

 

So it's definitely increasing.

 

The "news", maybe not your source, definitely highlights new cases, deaths, etc. every day. Maybe look elsewhere for your news?

 

 

 

 

[mtls2005]

1 hour ago, DrDave said:

I further suspect that any patient who has tested positive for Covid and subsequently dies for almost any reason is considered a Covid death.

 

Thanks sharing your "suspicions".

 

I suspect that I am handsome, and under-weight.

 

Seriously, if you're going to question the numbers then move along, and wait for figures which meet your highly selective criteria.

 

In the meantime we have professional healthcare workers and public health officials documenting deaths OFFICIALLY. To accuse them of fraud seems to make you "suspect".

 

And we have Excess Death figures which account for non-Covid CoDs. Some of those excess deaths could have been treated had not health care facilities been overun with Covid.

 

 

The ability for some here to find a silver lining in the deaths of fellow citizens is simply mind-blowing. I knew there were some sketchy folks out there, but I didn't realize how many there are, and how callous they are. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scammed]

52 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Are you capable of understanding that even if the daily death rate in Sweden now drops to zero and stays there the deaths per million will not change at all?

 

If you think that S. Korea's deaths per million, for example, will rise from the current 5.8 to anything near Sweden's 562, then you are dealing in faith-based science.  

why wouldnt it rise though ?

as it stands, the most reasonable assumption is that most are going to be exposed,

and out of those, 0.0x% of retirees will die a few years earlier then otherwise,

and that x will contain a myriad of preconditions, like how long their ancestors has been exposed, obesity, T-cells, and various other preconditions

Edited July 31, 2020 by scammed

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, utalkin2me said:

In the long run (which is all that matters). Yes. 

 

Every country will end up having similar "area under the curve" when it comes to deaths. Sweden's hospitals were never overrun. 

 

Sweden is past this. With their current numbers they will obviously be moving down your list, fast. If you don't think it is a success you have blinders on. What do you call 0-1 deaths a day? Failure it sounds like. Blinders. You are not alone. 

You're right of course, Sweden has had 0 deaths for a few days in July and nobody reported it. The per capita comparisons to countries with much larger populations are meaningless because the population sizes distort the data. It's like saying Cayman Islands has a huge GDP per capita compared to South Korea, more than twice of South Korea, so therefore the Cayman Islands economy is much bigger. It isn't of course, it's just the different population sizes distort the statistics. 

 

In reality Sweden had 0.05% of its population die, mostly the very old as another poster helpfully illustrated earlier. Sweden is doing perfectly fine. Not as good as Germany, but still not bad.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Logosone

[Eindhoven]

A shame the OP didn't take notice of the note posted under his screenshot. This thread would be a fail were it not for the people who pointed out it's obvious failings.

 

[cmarshall]

11 minutes ago, scammed said:

why wouldnt it rise though ?

as it stands, the most reasonable assumption is that most are going to be exposed,

and out of those, 0.0x% of retirees will die a few years earlier then otherwise,

and that x will contain a myriad of preconditions, like how long their ancestors has been exposed, obesity, T-cells, and various other preconditions

As long as there are new Covid deaths, the deaths per million will rise although if there are few deaths then the rise is likely to be imperceptible.  If the pandemic ever ends, then new Covid death rates in every country will go to zero and wherever the Covid cumulative deaths per million count stands for each country it will stand for all time. 

 

It is not reasonable at all to assume that most are going to be exposed.  Where would you get such an idea?  Do you think that S. Korea with a population of 51 million would have less than 300 deaths if most of the population became infected?  The death count is not kept low in the ICU, but by testing, isolating positives, and tracing their contacts.  This is called "containment" of the virus and it is what is responsible for the extermination of the SARS virus from 2003, for example.  You don't read much about containment in the Western press, since after all the Western governments failed even to try to contain Sars-Cov2, the cat got out of the bag and the only remaining option was mitigation. 

 

As I have already pointed out if you focus on excess deaths against, say, a 5-year average month per month, then we can assume that all of those excess deaths are due to Covid either directly or indirectly.  That count also corrects for people who may have died from Covid, but would likely have died anyway during that period from other causes.  You can forget all about preconditions befuddling your mind.

 

Ancestral exposure?  What part of novel coronavirus don't you understand?  Prior to this outbreak no human being was ever exposed to Sars-Cov2, nor is there any evidence that exposure to any other coronavirus would have produced any immunity to Sars-Cov2.

[pookondee]

43 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

The easy way to correct for errors in attributing deaths to Covid or failing to do so, is to ignore the designation altogether and only consider excess deaths against a five-year monthly average.  In every case that I have seen of analysis of excess deaths it exceeded Covid designated deaths.  Ergo, ipso facto, Covid is undercounted as a cause of death, not overcounted.

 

It is only if you restrict your attention to Western countries that the emphasis is on flattening the curve.  The simple reason for that is the Western countries' abject failure to contain the virus when they had the chance in the first place.  By contrast, the emphasis in S. Korea, Taiwan, China, Vietnam, New Zealand, Australia, and Thailand has been on containing and then exterminating the virus at which they all succeeded.  This is the reason that all of these countries report fewer than 10 deaths per million due to Covid compared to the Western countries which are in the hundreds.  As long as they continue to maintain the best practices of testing, isolating, and tracing contacts their death counts will never reach Western levels.

My questioning would be that places like Australia actually have a legitimate claim to their statistics,

since they actually TEST and act accordingly and directly when needed..

 

The fact that Australia, even with all its archaic lockdowns and precautions are still having somewhat a second wave, makes you wonder how Thailand with its population and Chinese tourists, have never had a problem??

 

I read only a short time ago, Hawaii was supposedly completely Covid free, but it doesn't seem that way now.

So, Even Hawaii cant avoid it, so how the หell is Thailand doing so miraculously?

 

There are 4 factors IMO:

 

1. The most obvious being, Thailands policy of UNDER-testing. That means maybe many cases hiding in the closet.

 

2. Thais have been carrying something like this for a while in their system (which has mutated in time in other places).

But Thailand may have a different strain and they are more immune.

 

3. The Thailand face factor.

Thais wouldnt want to admit they are "diseased" so the majority of mild cases will just stay at home an isolate and stay under the radar. that would be high 90% of cases NEVER identified.

 

4. That being, they wear facemasks, and are unlikely to venture out, or break rules at the critical infection times...

 unlike all the numbskulls in the west, going out protesting, rioting and refusing to wear masks.

[scammed]

5 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

As long as there are new Covid deaths, the deaths per million will rise although if there are few deaths then the rise is likely to be imperceptible.  If the pandemic ever ends, then new Covid death rates in every country will go to zero and wherever the Covid cumulative deaths per million count stands for each country it will stand for all time. 

 

It is not reasonable at all to assume that most are going to be exposed.  Where would you get such an idea?  Do you think that S. Korea with a population of 51 million would have less than 300 deaths if most of the population became infected?  The death count is not kept low in the ICU, but by testing, isolating positives, and tracing their contacts.  This is called "containment" of the virus and it is what is responsible for the extermination of the SARS virus from 2003, for example.  You don't read much about containment in the Western press, since after all the Western governments failed even to try to contain Sars-Cov2, the cat got out of the bag and the only remaining option was mitigation. 

 

As I have already pointed out if you focus on excess deaths against, say, a 5-year average month per month, then we can assume that all of those excess deaths are due to Covid either directly or indirectly.  That count also corrects for people who may have died from Covid, but would likely have died anyway during that period from other causes.  You can forget all about preconditions befuddling your mind.

 

Ancestral exposure?  What part of novel coronavirus don't you understand?  Prior to this outbreak no human being was ever exposed to Sars-Cov2, nor is there any evidence that exposure to any other coronavirus would have produced any immunity to Sars-Cov2.

i believe in inheritable general immunity,

europeans, having long been accustomed to chinese export of virus commodity

through silk road had much higher odds then native americans to withstand a virus.

even after 300 years of exposure, i still think black americans generally 

have a poorer immunity vs chinese commodity

Edited July 31, 2020 by scammed

[utalkin2me]

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

Are you capable of understanding that even if the daily death rate in Sweden now drops to zero and stays there the deaths per million will not change at all?

 

If you think that S. Korea's deaths per million, for example, will rise from the current 5.8 to anything near Sweden's 562, then you are dealing in faith-based science.  

I did not mean to infer every country would be exactly the same. There are obviously factors that would make that impossible like density for example, or climate. 

 

What I am saying though is, each nation's death per capita is going to be very close to exactly what it would have been if they locked down or not. In the long run. 

 

You can't run or hide from this, all that will do is make it worse. What you can do is take reasonable measures and protect the vulnerable. Sweden has PROVEN this. We are NOT in the dark any longer. We actually know the answers, but somehow refuse to accept them still. 

 

Sweden didn't lock down, and look where they are now. If people can't understand all the implications of this, it is impossible to know what to say. There is nothing to say, you are in lala land. 

 

The other problem is, everyone said Sweden should be in utter ruin by now. What happened? They are doing fine.

 

The real fact of the matter is if Sweden just so happened to protect their elderly better near the beginning, and implemented all the same policies otherwise, they would be making a laughing stock of the earth earth by now. As it stands, they let things get out of hand in elderly homes, and with their policies that did throw off their numbers. But the main essence of their policies are most obviously correct. Are you capable of understanding any of that? 

Edited July 31, 2020 by utalkin2me

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

In the long run (which is all that matters). Yes. 

 

Every country will end up having similar "area under the curve" when it comes to deaths. Sweden's hospitals were never overrun. 

 

Sweden is past this. With their current numbers they will obviously be moving down your list, fast. If you don't think it is a success you have blinders on. What do you call 0-1 deaths a day? Failure it sounds like. Blinders. You are not alone. 

Yes the long run is all that matters:

 

Sweden will probably see many more deaths due to covid, this is not over yet. From Sweden's Public Health Agency on the 22nd July. The best case scenario will be an additional 1,108 deaths, next scenario would be an additional 3,250 deaths and its third scenario is an additional 4,460 deaths still to come.

 

https://www.thelocal.se/20200721/how-many-more-people-could-die-from-coronavirus-in-sweden