Pattaya: TAT claim "lively" tourism during long weekend saw 90% of hotel rooms booked

[BigStar]

12 minutes ago, Leaver said:

What has Pattaya grown into?  

 

A world class tourist destination?  I don't think so.

 

A family holiday destination?  I don't think so.  

 

A cheap package holiday destination for tourists from developing countries?  Possibly.  

 

Whatever Pattaya has grown into, it isn't generating the revenue that it once did.  (pre virus)  

Pattaya always has been a little bit of everything. It's an entire package. ????

 

1995, height of old monger economy:

 

 

Here's what it's grown into. Pattaya in the new economy as mongers left:

 

 

Oh, five times larger or so, big malls, real estate, expensive hotels & restos, etc. Pre-empt silly nonsense: no, they weren't empty.

 

No Thais want to go back to the 1995 economy. Only ignorant old farts on TVF, reared in nanny states, think that would really be helpful.???? Ironically, they wring their hands whenever Pattaya makes a step in that direction.

 

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Here's what it's grown into. Pattaya in the new economy as mongers left:

When do you say the mongers officially left?

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

When do you say the mongers officially left?

Note I used the word "as." The decline of the mongers took place over a period of years concurrently with rise of what we might term "new tourism."

 

Now remember you don't like history lessons. You've very much concerned with what places food on the tables of Thais in the here and now, while trying to claim that what's unquestionably helping to do exactly that--domestic tourism--isn't doing it.????

 

But since you asked, the stage was set by 1997. By then farang tourism had already been in decline. Tourists were now being insulted, assaulted, drugged, robbed and extorted. Rude obnoxious thugs had taken over the streets, police powerless. Pollution, trash, crappy beach, no parking, dangerous drivers were now the norm.

 

So the exodus to the paradise of Cambodia had started! Without the Golden Egg Layers, Thais were becoming impoverished, scrounging for scraps in the rubble.

 

There are two types of articles appearing in the Pattaya Mail with regularity: those where business and political leaders decry the decline in tourism and propose ways to improve the situation; and a steadily increasing number of reports of tourists being insulted, assaulted, drugged, robbed and extorted. All the good intentions and empty proposals by community leaders are not going to change the behavior of the people at street level, and it is they who are driving away the life blood of the city.

. . . during the high season trash, brush, and entire fields are set afire on a daily basis by every idiot with a pack of matches in their pocket. . . . the narrow, seven meter wide ribbon of sand is dirty, fronted by polluted water, and monopolized by chair vendors who gallantly leave the outlets of the street drains for those who do not wish to rent a chair. . . . jeep and motorcycle renters are . . . taking all available parking along Beach Road. No . . . Beach Road . . . parking on both sides of the narrow artery . . . louts on motorcycles . . . speeding down what little space is left.

 

It doesn’t matter if the streets are cleared of garbage, no one is going to walk down them if doing so leaves them open to being insulted and assaulted. Having a beach promenade doesn’t matter if strolling along it means taking the risk of being knocked down and robbed. No one is going to participate in the vibrant night-life if there is a good chance that they will wake up three days later in the hospital with all their possessions gone, or in some cases, not wake up at all. No one is going to seek an exotic experience if it means they might be set up by girls with both a legal age and under age ID, and then extorted for immense sums by the police.

Pattaya is being inundated with rude obnoxious thugs who do not care about the city or its visitors. They do not listen to the community leaders, and the police do not have the budget or manpower to control them. They are driving away the tourists and the income and jobs that they bring. Inevitably, this rabble will win as they reduce everyone to their level of poverty.

Meanwhile, tourism to Cambodia is increasing by 50% every six months...

     --Lawrence Neal, "Down On Pattaya, Pattaya Mail, Vol. V No.5, Friday 31 January 1997 - 6 February 1997

 

And in a previous post you've said that "nothing has changed." So then 1997 will do just fine for you.

 

But then the exodus was slowed by the currency devaluation. Brit yobs competed with the local thugs for a time and more Big Spenders arrived:

 

 

but as Brit Peso fell, then suddenly in 2003 the unthinkable happened: the Big Bang.

 

Yep. After many years Thailand dared raise visa fees and shoot itself in the foot! OMG. THIS WAS IT. 

 

Oh, the teeth gnashing, the hair pulling, the knickers twisting; the ranting, the wailing, the screaming, the anguish, the shock, the accusations of INSANITY, and of course the dire prophecies! No one would be left to shop in the malls, no one would buy condos, bar girls would disappear, and Thais would all have to return to work in rice paddies. Back to the Stone Age!

 

Oh, it was gonna be a thousand million times worse than later prophecies of the total destruction of Pattaya tourism by the widening of Beach Road. This catastrophic event created the granddaddy of all doom threads: Ruling out the foreigner (2003), a 17-page  "killing the goose" bash fest.

 

Death posts began appearing in TVF thereafter, soon growing into full-blown yearly confirmations of the DEATH. For example,

 

2007: Pattaya's Dead

2008: Is Pattaya Dead Right Now?

2009: Pattaya Is Dead Dead Dead
2010: Why Is Everything Closing Down?
2011: Even More Dead Than Last Year?
2012: What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?
2013: Widening Of Beach Rd Started At North End
2014: Is Pattaya really on the bones of it <deleted> at the minute?
2015: The beach walkway? Low season is really low Pattaya is dead

 

And so forth, getting worse and worse to the present FINAL DEATH by virus. RIP.

 

In the meantime, in view of the DEATH, Thai businesses shrewdly recognized new opportunities in Pattaya to serve other markets, notably domestic, Russian and Chinese. However, more upscale types of real estate and businesses would have as well some appeal to non-monger farang tourists, residents, and investors. Northshore, for example, was opened as early as 2006.

 

Tukcom in 2004 was a start but the biggie of course was CentralFestival in 2009.

 

TVF doomsters, typically failing to see the handwriting on the wall, immediately predicted its bankruptcy. Indeed one our most distinguished ace TVF Economists sneered at the fools trying to open any business here charging Bangkok prices. That merely meant charging more than B100 for anything to the remaining mongers, which TAT: TVF recognizes as the only tourists and source of all wealth.???? Later ace TVF Economists, no less brilliant, came up with money laundering to explain how malls can stay possibly stay open without the vast spending of power of the mongers living in fleabag hotels on Soi Buakhao.

 

But by then new economy had got well under way, leading, over the next decade, to the vastly expanded, far wealthier Pattaya of today. What expanded? See the pic above again so I don't have to post it again for you.

 

[Leaver]

25 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Note I used the word "as." The decline of the mongers took place over a period of years concurrently with rise of what we might term "new tourism."

So, what will become of properties that use to cater for mongers?  Will they be rented by expats from the new demographic to cater for the "new tourism?"  Eg. more Indian restaurants selling Indian food for more expensive than the same food in India.  

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Leaver

[Meat Pie 47]

4 hours ago, BigStar said:

Pattaya always has been a little bit of everything. It's an entire package. ????

 

1995, height of old monger economy:

 

 

Here's what it's grown into. Pattaya in the new economy as mongers left:

 

 

Oh, five times larger or so, big malls, real estate, expensive hotels & restos, etc. Pre-empt silly nonsense: no, they weren't empty.

 

No Thais want to go back to the 1995 economy. Only ignorant old farts on TVF, reared in nanny states, think that would really be helpful.???? Ironically, they wring their hands whenever Pattaya makes a step in that direction.

 

you should change your name Lone Star

[BigStar]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

So, what will become of properties that use to cater for mongers?  Will they be rented by expats from the new demographic to cater for the "new tourism?"  Eg. more Indian restaurants selling Indian food more for more expensive than the same food in India.  

Me, I just wait & see and readily adapt. There were once beer bars where Central and the Hilton are now. Who would have known? That construction, BTW, was denounced as a "war on the beer bars." I love this forum.

 

I'm embarrassed, you see, by a lack of impressive qualifications and innate prescience to serve as a TVF Economist, never having spent much reading time in the Bodleian. I must leave all them sweeping, authoritative, and usually pompous (if one knows, then one knows, after all) prophecies to them and be entertained accordingly.

[86217861189]

Pattaya walking street at around 2300 on sunday (yesterday) 

 

It is literally empty. Same with Jomtien and Pattaya. Was really dissapointed. 

 

I thought initially that there were some tourists, but it turned out to be smaller groups of freelancer girls. 

 

My girlfriend tried to find some lobsters to eat, but all proper restaurants are gone or only have dead lobsters (I know nothing about seafood, so excuse if something is off).

 

McDonalds and Burger Kings close early and open late, many 7 11 closed permanently. Almost all closes at around midnight. 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by 86217861189

[johng]

There where quite a lot of Tourist at Jomtien beach over the weekend

Pattaya was quiet for a Sunday  I think most people went to Jomtien or further south ?

 

At the newly opened just before the WuFlu crisis struck  Central festival food court  they might have realised the prices where silly  (200 baht for a plate of pad Thai)

[johng]

52 minutes ago, 86217861189 said:

My girlfriend tried to find some lobsters to eat, but all proper restaurants are gone or only have dead lobsters

Not my recommendation but if you had gone to the far south end of Jomtien Beach  there are 2 seafood restaurants that do a "roaring trade" at the weekends.

[johng]

17 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

 

 

[Leaver]

On 8/2/2020 at 11:33 PM, BigStar said:

Me, I just wait & see and readily adapt.

Could you adapt to something like what Sihanoukville has become?  How you been to Sihanoukville in the last 2 years?

[Leaver]

On 8/2/2020 at 10:57 PM, BigStar said:

Note I used the word "as." The decline of the mongers took place over a period of years concurrently with rise of what we might term "new tourism."

 

Now remember you don't like history lessons. You've very much concerned with what places food on the tables of Thais in the here and now, while trying to claim that what's unquestionably helping to do exactly that--domestic tourism--isn't doing it.????

 

But since you asked, the stage was set by 1997. By then farang tourism had already been in decline. Tourists were now being insulted, assaulted, drugged, robbed and extorted. Rude obnoxious thugs had taken over the streets, police powerless. Pollution, trash, crappy beach, no parking, dangerous drivers were now the norm.

 

So the exodus to the paradise of Cambodia had started! Without the Golden Egg Layers, Thais were becoming impoverished, scrounging for scraps in the rubble.

 

There are two types of articles appearing in the Pattaya Mail with regularity: those where business and political leaders decry the decline in tourism and propose ways to improve the situation; and a steadily increasing number of reports of tourists being insulted, assaulted, drugged, robbed and extorted. All the good intentions and empty proposals by community leaders are not going to change the behavior of the people at street level, and it is they who are driving away the life blood of the city.

. . . during the high season trash, brush, and entire fields are set afire on a daily basis by every idiot with a pack of matches in their pocket. . . . the narrow, seven meter wide ribbon of sand is dirty, fronted by polluted water, and monopolized by chair vendors who gallantly leave the outlets of the street drains for those who do not wish to rent a chair. . . . jeep and motorcycle renters are . . . taking all available parking along Beach Road. No . . . Beach Road . . . parking on both sides of the narrow artery . . . louts on motorcycles . . . speeding down what little space is left.

 

It doesn’t matter if the streets are cleared of garbage, no one is going to walk down them if doing so leaves them open to being insulted and assaulted. Having a beach promenade doesn’t matter if strolling along it means taking the risk of being knocked down and robbed. No one is going to participate in the vibrant night-life if there is a good chance that they will wake up three days later in the hospital with all their possessions gone, or in some cases, not wake up at all. No one is going to seek an exotic experience if it means they might be set up by girls with both a legal age and under age ID, and then extorted for immense sums by the police.

Pattaya is being inundated with rude obnoxious thugs who do not care about the city or its visitors. They do not listen to the community leaders, and the police do not have the budget or manpower to control them. They are driving away the tourists and the income and jobs that they bring. Inevitably, this rabble will win as they reduce everyone to their level of poverty.

Meanwhile, tourism to Cambodia is increasing by 50% every six months...

     --Lawrence Neal, "Down On Pattaya, Pattaya Mail, Vol. V No.5, Friday 31 January 1997 - 6 February 1997

 

And in a previous post you've said that "nothing has changed." So then 1997 will do just fine for you.

 

But then the exodus was slowed by the currency devaluation. Brit yobs competed with the local thugs for a time and more Big Spenders arrived:

 

 

but as Brit Peso fell, then suddenly in 2003 the unthinkable happened: the Big Bang.

 

Yep. After many years Thailand dared raise visa fees and shoot itself in the foot! OMG. THIS WAS IT. 

 

Oh, the teeth gnashing, the hair pulling, the knickers twisting; the ranting, the wailing, the screaming, the anguish, the shock, the accusations of INSANITY, and of course the dire prophecies! No one would be left to shop in the malls, no one would buy condos, bar girls would disappear, and Thais would all have to return to work in rice paddies. Back to the Stone Age!

 

Oh, it was gonna be a thousand million times worse than later prophecies of the total destruction of Pattaya tourism by the widening of Beach Road. This catastrophic event created the granddaddy of all doom threads: Ruling out the foreigner (2003), a 17-page  "killing the goose" bash fest.

 

Death posts began appearing in TVF thereafter, soon growing into full-blown yearly confirmations of the DEATH. For example,

 

2007: Pattaya's Dead

2008: Is Pattaya Dead Right Now?

2009: Pattaya Is Dead Dead Dead
2010: Why Is Everything Closing Down?
2011: Even More Dead Than Last Year?
2012: What'S Next For A Beach Tourist Destination Like Pattaya?
2013: Widening Of Beach Rd Started At North End
2014: Is Pattaya really on the bones of it <deleted> at the minute?
2015: The beach walkway? Low season is really low Pattaya is dead

 

And so forth, getting worse and worse to the present FINAL DEATH by virus. RIP.

 

In the meantime, in view of the DEATH, Thai businesses shrewdly recognized new opportunities in Pattaya to serve other markets, notably domestic, Russian and Chinese. However, more upscale types of real estate and businesses would have as well some appeal to non-monger farang tourists, residents, and investors. Northshore, for example, was opened as early as 2006.

 

Tukcom in 2004 was a start but the biggie of course was CentralFestival in 2009.

 

TVF doomsters, typically failing to see the handwriting on the wall, immediately predicted its bankruptcy. Indeed one our most distinguished ace TVF Economists sneered at the fools trying to open any business here charging Bangkok prices. That merely meant charging more than B100 for anything to the remaining mongers, which TAT: TVF recognizes as the only tourists and source of all wealth.???? Later ace TVF Economists, no less brilliant, came up with money laundering to explain how malls can stay possibly stay open without the vast spending of power of the mongers living in fleabag hotels on Soi Buakhao.

 

But by then new economy had got well under way, leading, over the next decade, to the vastly expanded, far wealthier Pattaya of today. What expanded? See the pic above again so I don't have to post it again for you.

 

There's no money in cheap package holiday zero baht tourists from China and India, no matter how many coach buses you see full of them. 

 

That expanded city that you keep referring to will have many buildings sitting vacant. Only select hotels and businesses, Chinese owned, will be full. 

 

This past high season was the lowest high season for westerns I have ever seen here.  That is the writing on the wall.

 

Pattaya does not have the beach or the facilities to attract wealthy Chinese and Indians and Russians, let lone, families.  Not to mention, Pattaya's reputation as the red light capital of the world will be around for years to come.

[BigStar]

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

There's no money in cheap package holiday zero baht tourists from China and India, no matter how many coach buses you see full of them. 

Not as much of course, so that's why they were banned years ago. Hence you don't see any coach buses full of them, just imagine that you do to stay in denial and maintain the narrative. The peanut gallery still believes this, of course.

 

Getting a lot of FITs here now, too.

 

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

That expanded city that you keep referring to will have many buildings sitting vacant. Only select hotels and businesses, Chinese owned, will be full. 

Nonsense. Didn't before COVID (except the usual, as Pattaya's always had vacant buildings), and so there's no real reason to think it will after COVID. You can argue better or worse, but that would just be hot air. Might be more empty beer bars in your area, but that trend had already started, vastly overshadowed by all the well-patronized new businesses that you carefully ignore.

 

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

This past high season was the lowest high season for westerns I have ever seen here.  That is the writing on the wall.

It wasn't that great around the fleabag area of Soi Buakhao, but not really that bad, when you consider the bar areas were already overbuilt and some retrenchment was after all long overdue. However, outside your area were quite a few non-monger Western tourists and expats. My building's parking lot was more crowded than I've ever seen it. I suspect a continuing shift away from the bar trade seems likely for a number of reasons.

 

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

Pattaya does not have the beach or the facilities to attract wealthy Chinese and Indians and Russians, let lone, families.

In fact it does, relative to the baked-beans-on-toast mongers. Compared to the latter, lower middle class and middle class Chinese, Indians, and Russians are wealthy, and they're staying at the better hotels and condos. Lots of Chinese and Russians families and definitely some Europeans. You forgot about all the other Asians, but they're players as well. A few years ago CPN cited the Koreans specifically in a shareholder report. And inevitably, you entirely forgot about Thai families.????

 

 

 

[BigStar]

20 hours ago, Leaver said:

Could you adapt to something like what Sihanoukville has become?  How you been to Sihanoukville in the last 2 years?

I hown't (very Brit, no?) and have no such plans, as a friend of mine had recommended against it 10 years ago. Obviously then I wouldn't consider moving there, as I'm quite happy living in Pattaya. Cheers! ???? OK, play the scary music: how long??? Oooooh . . .???? Merely laughable, sorry. It's about like watching one of those really bad old horror flicks like Plan 9 From Outer Space (1959) or, better, Troll 2 (1990). However, the anti-Chinese bigotry always plays well with our peanut gallery, of course.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by BigStar

[Leaver]

19 hours ago, BigStar said:

Not as much of course, so that's why they were banned years ago.

Of course. 

 

Banned the same way prostitution and daily rental of condo's are.

 

19 hours ago, BigStar said:

vastly overshadowed by all the well-patronized new businesses

Last high season was the lowest high season I have ever seen here.  Many business owners confirmed my observations.  

 

19 hours ago, BigStar said:

It wasn't that great around the fleabag area of Soi Buakhao,

It wasn't that great anywhere in Pattaya.

 

19 hours ago, BigStar said:

In fact it does,

In fact, it doesn't.  

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, BigStar said:

a friend of mine had recommended against it 10 years ago. Obviously then I wouldn't consider moving there,

No need to move there, it will be coming to you here.