Bread...flour to water ratio?

[Kenny202]

Been making bread here for about 5 years and improved to a mix I use regularly. Basically 900 grams flour, salt, sugar, yeast and 3 cups (600ml) of warm water. The results are very good...on the dense side which I like, but I often wish I could get it a bit lighter.... but still it is good bread. Can be used for sandwiches etc. The mix always seems super stiff to me but if I add even a small amount of extra water the dough rises ok to a point but doesn't seem to support itself and is still useable but spreads rather than rises. I bake my bread on a tray rather than use loaf tins. My measuring cup is 200 ml, or 200 grams. I knead it in a mixer, let it rise....then punch down, divide to make 2 loaves, shape then do a further proving / second rise in a tepid oven until it has doubled (often tripled). Then I let her rip in a hot oven for 25 minutes.

 

The normal mix I make is fine with three cups of water and rises every time. No problems with any of that. I just feel my mix is slightly too dry but as I said above any increase in liquid the bread can't seem to support itself to rise high enough without flattening out. Maybe its because it is baked on a tray without the support of a bread tin? Maybe my 2 x loaves from this mix are too big?

 

Just wondering what ratio water to flour others use? What sort of consistency is your mix?

[stouricks]

35 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

My measuring cup is 200 ml, or 200 grams. 

Is that for the flour or the water? 200ml or flour is a different WEIGHT to 200ml of water.

I think bakers use a percentage of flour to water by weight not volume.

Edited August 1, 2020 by stouricks

[BritManToo]

I use 255gm of water, 20gm oil, 1/2 spoon sugar, 1/2 spoon salt, 4gm yeast.

Then make the weight up to 750gm with flour (approx 460gm).

 

Works every time in my machine.

[vogie]

1 kilo flour to 640gs of water, everything weighed for accuracy. It makes me about 3 3/4 pound and 2 1/2 pound loaves. Hand kneed.

[stouricks]

Both Britman & Vogie are quoting WEIGHTS for the ratio flour/water. Correct.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, stouricks said:

Both Britman & Vogie are quoting WEIGHTS for the ratio flour/water. Correct.

Correct. A cup of flour compacted will weigh more than a cup of loose flour.

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, stouricks said:

Is that for the flour or the water? 200ml or flour is a different WEIGHT to 200ml of water.

I think bakers use a percentage of flour to water by weight not volume.

Already mentioned 900 grams flour. 200ml of water, and according to my online converter

200ml of water = 200 grams in weight

 

I thought I would clarify that as I think an American cup is 250 ml / 8 oz

 

 

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

1 kilo flour to 640gs of water, everything weighed for accuracy. It makes me about 3 3/4 pound and 2 1/2 pound loaves. Hand kneed.

Thats about spot on the same as me. 2 big loaves. I knead mine in a mixer / dough hook though

[Kenny202]

Looks like my flour / water ratio about the same as you guys. Mind you I have noticed only 50mm of of water either way makes a huge difference. So how would you guys describe consistency? Mine isn't dry or flaky at all, but quiet firm. Doesn't leave any residue in the mixer bowl.

 

Britman, if you are using a machine probably a lot more forgiving to a wetter mixer as the loaf is fully supported. When it rises it can only go one way, up :-). I bake mine of a flat tray. The shape of the loaf suits me better than a traditional block loaf. 

[steven100]

12 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Mine isn't dry or flaky at all, but quiet firm

I get that alot especially in 7-11 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by steven100

[rumak]

Posted 2 minutes ago

  1 minute ago, Kenny202 said:

Mine isn't dry or flaky at all, but quiet firm

I get that alot   (sateeven nung roi)

 

 

you mean someone  firmly  tells you to be  quiet,  right ?     i can understand that

Edited August 1, 2020 by rumak

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Looks like my flour / water ratio about the same as you guys. Mind you I have noticed only 50mm of of water either way makes a huge difference. So how would you guys describe consistency? Mine isn't dry or flaky at all, but quiet firm. Doesn't leave any residue in the mixer bowl.

 

Britman, if you are using a machine probably a lot more forgiving to a wetter mixer as the loaf is fully supported. When it rises it can only go one way, up :-). I bake mine of a flat tray. The shape of the loaf suits me better than a traditional block loaf. 

If weighed pretty much consistant all the time, here are the bread straight out of the oven, the 2 small (1/2 pound) at the front and the 3 large (3/4 pound)  at the rear.

 

 

[Harry Fingerling]

Five parts flour, three parts water, yeast & salt. That’s all you need for normal bread making. Bread flour or all purpose flour it works every time.

[Kenny202]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

If weighed pretty much consistant all the time, here are the bread straight out of the oven, the 2 small (1/2 pound) at the front and the 3 large (3/4 pound)  at the rear.

 

 

Looks really good. You're using loaf tins right?

 

[Kenny202]

Just now, Harry Fingerling said:

Five parts flour, three parts water, yeast & salt. That’s all you need for normal bread making. Bread flour or all purpose flour it works every time.

Oh mate. I made bread with all purpose flour for 2 years was ok but really the texture of cake. I don't doubt your mix but I am sure you will see a huge improvement with bread flour. Loaf looks awesome

 

[Kenny202]

What about cooking time fellers. I put my 2 x loaves in full whack (250 deg c) for 23 minutes.

 

What about bread improvers etc? Anyone try anything like that? Like I said my bread a nice texture but dense which is pretty much how I like it. Would be great to lighten it up sometimes, even for a change.

[Kenny202]

8 minutes ago, Harry Fingerling said:

Five parts flour, three parts water, yeast & salt. That’s all you need for normal bread making. Bread flour or all purpose flour it works every time.

Using your calculation I am pretty close...my mix is

 

930 grams flour, 600 ml (600 grams) water = total 1530 grams

 

1530 divided by eight = 192 grams

 

Flour  5 x 192 grams = 960 grams flour

water 3 x 192 grams = 576 ml water

 

Pretty close to my mix....a little more flour and a little less water which would make my dough even stiffer. Mind you be a little extra dry ingredients with yeast salt and sugar. Does that make sense?

 

[Kenny202]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

If weighed pretty much consistant all the time, here are the bread straight out of the oven, the 2 small (1/2 pound) at the front and the 3 large (3/4 pound)  at the rear.

May I ask you what you use for your loaf tins, dimensions? Look almost oval. I have tried them before but ones I have brought here have very high sides and not keen on the results. Looks like your ones are not so deep which would be great and still give enough support

[vogie]

36 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Looks really good. You're using loaf tins right?

 

Yes using loaf tins, It works out at 380gms of dough for each large loaf and 280gms for the the 2 small.

[Kenny202]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes using loaf tins, It works out at 380gms of dough for each large loaf and 280gms for the the 2 small.

Would be really interested in the dimensions of your loaf tins and maybe even a pic if you could be so kind. I have had 2 goes at getting loaf tins and one too big and other too small

[LogicThai]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

I bake mine of a flat tray. The shape of the loaf suits me better than a traditional block loaf. 

You might want to try baking your loaf in a Dutch Oven. Mine has an oval shape, that produces a great loaf.

And with the Dutch Oven, because of the steam not dissipating in the oven, you get a very nice crust, similar to what bakers get with the injection of steam in their professional ovens.

 

[vogie]

33 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

May I ask you what you use for your loaf tins, dimensions? Look almost oval. I have tried them before but ones I have brought here have very high sides and not keen on the results. Looks like your ones are not so deep which would be great and still give enough support

Only the 2 small tins are oval, the 3 bigger ones are rectangular. I believe these are the ones I bought from Lazada, if the dimentions are any different I will correct tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure these are the ones.

 

[chickenslegs]

48 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

What about cooking time fellers. I put my 2 x loaves in full whack (250 deg c) for 23 minutes.

 

What about bread improvers etc? Anyone try anything like that? Like I said my bread a nice texture but dense which is pretty much how I like it. Would be great to lighten it up sometimes, even for a change.

A couple of people have mentioned adding oil to the mix. I use lard or olive oil - about 20-25g for the amount of flour in your OP.

I think that would make a lighter loaf.

Sometimes I use half milk/half water, which also produces a lighter texture.

[chickenslegs]

I have several sizes of loaf pan like the one Vogie posted above. Cheap, but good.

 

The one I use most is the springform pan ... Same height and width but longer.

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/simhoa-loaf-pan-non-stick-bakeware-i715156978-s1369550190.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.1.2aca78d1ShptEO&search=1

Edited August 1, 2020 by chickenslegs
spelink

[stouricks]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

Already mentioned 900 grams flour. 200ml of water, and according to my online converter

200ml of water = 200 grams in weight

 

I thought I would clarify that as I think an American cup is 250 ml / 8 oz

 

 

1 CUP of water is 235 ml = 235 gm according to Mr Google. But when I have my cuppa tea in a morning it is much more than that. Best stick to WEIGHT.

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, stouricks said:

1 CUP of water is 235 ml = 235 gm according to Mr Google. But when I have my cuppa tea in a morning it is much more than that. Best stick to WEIGHT.

There are at least 2 different recognised cup measurements. Not sure if it is imperial / metric or USA / rest of the world. My measuring cup is 200 ml. I checked and weighed it at 200 grams. I have heard people mentioning the difference between cup sizes on here before. I believe the other size is 8 oz which would be 236 ml

Edited August 1, 2020 by Kenny202

[stouricks]

8 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

I have heard people mentioning the difference between cup sizes on here before.

This is about bread, not titties!   PML

[stouricks]

8 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

There are at least 2 different recognised cup measurements. Not sure if it is imperial / metric or USA / rest of the world. My measuring cup is 200 ml. I checked and weighed it at 200 grams. I have heard people mentioning the difference between cup sizes on here before. I believe the other size is 8 oz which would be 236 ml

200 ml of water will always weigh 200 gm. But 200ml of flour can vary greatly.