22 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Personally i think ALL countries have done a terrible job , destroying 20-30% of ALL the worlds economies for the 0.00008% of the world's population that have died, which included the old, cancer sufferers and those run over by buses but later tested positive.  Basically 3000-4000 people have lost their jobs or income for every 1 death (death rate being 1 in 12,000 !). Personally I think that the numbers just don't add up any more. Open up, wear a mask, get on with it.

Why wear a mask now? There is no COVID in thailand? It's like going around wearing a condom,

"just in case" and with it hanging out to show everyone you got one on and are using it to stop "their fear" of any disease you may have? Other than that all the rest I agree with, well said!

I went for option 3 (which doesn't exactly fit my views) although in retrospect option 2 may have been more appropriate.

 

When the threat originally hove into view, then the initial reaction: lockdown, suspend travel and close/suspend many, many businesses was probably the right thing to do. That should allow for detailed planning, analysis of all available data and the production and implementation of a strategy to contain the virus (you simply can't eliminate it - that's natures' job) in order to allow the resumption of normal life, and especially commercial activity, as rapidly as possible. 
 

Instead the initial (justifiable) draconian restrictions were kept in place for far too long, to the point where many became very obviously unnecessary, and huge damage was done to peoples' lives. I see three reasons for this: first the natural authoritarianism of the regime, which means that it sees nothing wrong, and is quite comfortable with imposing and maintaining these measures, almost as a means to themselves (hence maybe the enthusiasm for "the New Normal"); second the natural stasis which results from the wish to raise committees and avoid decisions which once made would make those committees superfluous; third the determination of those in power, to all have their turn at demonstrating their importance and power - just look at the queue of officials to "get on the telly and lay down the law"!

 

In addition (and I don't think this was a result of a conspiracy) I suspect a number of those with "deep pockets" saw and seized an economic opportunity, destroying competition, picking up property, business and assets at "fire sale prices", and moving in on economic activities which they previously had played no part in. With deep pockets goes great influence - particularly with this government - and that may have played a part in prolonging the restrictions.

 

The damage to the nations (or more pertinently the "little peoples") economy and finances was compounded by the inchoate and hopelessly inadequate relief provision, which reached only a small proportion of those in need.

 

So in summary, yes at first a good reaction, which rapidly became diverted and /or hijacked to serve other purposes. In my opinion, I'm sure that many will disagree.

18 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

One more who knows none of the facts, has read and watched only mainstream news and is happy to see the country in the toilet with more of his rights removed. Have you read anything about the virus or the so called vaccine? The virus is a Coronavirus of which there are many strains and it is continually changing. COVID 19 is just one strain. It has already mutated into many more. The so called vaccine is not a cure for all strains. The vaccine proposed is very different from previous vaccines (of which there is no conclusive evidence of their efficacy) the new vaccine will enter and change your DNA. I don't know about how much you trust lying Big Pharma and governments but I certainly do not trust them with my DNA. Look what happened to the Thalidomide children of the sixties? Mothers were promised a pain free birth and the result we know. You go and trust the vaccine if you want but do not inflict it mandatorily on everyone. Protect yourself if you think that is what you are doing. I have been diagnosed with Emphysema, Chronic Bronchitis, Asthma from which I would get repedative bouts of chest infections until the anti-biotics no longer worked. I would rather be in a room with 1000 COVID cases than take the vaccine. I have no symptoms of the above and have amazed Doctors here in Thailand who were in disbelief with my recovery. All due to my own research, diagnosis and treatment. If anyone suffering is interested in how I did it they can PM me. I am not a doctor and you must make your own assessment and take advice as you see fit.  

You're not a doctor!

Never!

8 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

About 360,0000 are born everyday, 150,000 people die every day, the virus is not killing 210,000 ever day, but about 4-7,000 only. QED, the virus death rate of 0.00008% of world population will continue to get smaller even if virus kills a lot more every day

 

 

 

You obviously havent thought this trough. The reason the death rate is not that high is because of the precautions. In Italy it went totally wrong and the deathrate went up because hospitals were overflowing. 

 

The whole strategy has been to slow down the spread because hospitals could not cope otherwise. You now see mobile morgues in the US as they cant cope with the death. 

 

Just imagine what would have happened without any measures.

It’s rare that I find my self complimenting this government but I honestly think they’ve handled this situation brilliantly, along with the population who seem to have really come together and overwhelmingly followed the rules, which in itself is a rare thing..

Contrast that with the US, UK and a few others where some would rather stick needles in their eyes than do a simple thing like wear a mask. Europe had some pretty tough lockdowns yet still suffered badly but was also late in advocating mask wearing. Johnson preferred to go on holiday than tackle the situation and his government showed that the rules didn’t apply to them only to the population. He’s lied and lied, presided over the worst situation in Europe yet still claims success. Trump advocates ineffective drugs and bleach, and of course he’s too masculine to wear a mask.
so all in all did Thailand do well, absolutely.

16 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

One more who knows none of the facts, has read and watched only mainstream news and is happy to see the country in the toilet with more of his rights removed. Have you read anything about the virus or the so called vaccine? The virus is a Coronavirus of which there are many strains and it is continually changing. COVID 19 is just one strain. It has already mutated into many more. The so called vaccine is not a cure for all strains. The vaccine proposed is very different from previous vaccines (of which there is no conclusive evidence of their efficacy) the new vaccine will enter and change your DNA.

Yes I have read this....also one must be careful when entering a supermarket... DON'T let them take your Temperature on your forehead--- because it just erases your memory....I went for a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread yesterday and came home with a case of beer and a bottle of wine.

 

Also they are getting private information from you brain

44 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Personally i think ALL countries have done a terrible job , destroying 20-30% of ALL the worlds economies for the 0.00008% of the world's population that have died, which included the old, cancer sufferers and those run over by buses but later tested positive.  Basically 3000-4000 people have lost their jobs or income for every 1 death (death rate being 1 in 12,000 !). Personally I think that the numbers just don't add up any more. Open up, wear a mask, get on with it.

Another one who is willing to sacrifice lives for the sake of the economy. I take it neither yourself or anyone you know falls into the 'at risk' category as I'm sure you would have a different opinion if it was you, your wife, your mother, your father we were sacrificing for 'the worlds economies'. 

3 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Yes I have read this....also one must be careful when entering a supermarket... DON'T let them take your Temperature on your forehead--- because it just erases your memory....I went for a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread yesterday and came home with a case of beer and a bottle of wine.

 

Also they are getting private information from you brain

Amazing you should mention that.  It happened to me too, just 2 days ago. 

3 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Yes I have read this....also one must be careful when entering a supermarket... DON'T let them take your Temperature on your forehead--- because it just erases your memory....I went for a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread yesterday and came home with a case of beer and a bottle of wine.

 

Also they are getting private information from you brain

But that is why he and others like Sumarianson wear the tinfoil hats. So when their temperature is scanned their memory is not erased. 

Edited August 2, 20206 yr by robblok

1 minute ago, johnnybangkok said:

Another one who is willing to sacrifice lives for the sake of the economy. I take it neither yourself or anyone you know falls into the 'at risk' category as I'm sure you would have a different opinion if it was you, your wife, your mother, your father we were sacrificing for 'the worlds economies'. 

He is stuck in the UK can't get to his wife frustrated by it. So that is tainting his views a bit. 

yes, I agree....

why couldnt i check both that it isnt nearly as dangerous as believed AND

that it caused damage to economy ?

 

there is enough data to show cases increase with enforced mask that the mask hypothesis has to be discarded

17 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

Why wear a mask now? There is no COVID in thailand?

Nor was there in Vietnam for a longer period, and yet now there are new cases, the last figure I heard was over 30. It’s clear that it’s resurgent. Wearing a mask still makes sense. 

The Government has handled it well but at some stage will have to loosen the reins. The tourism industry is in shatters and millions of Thai people are out of work and millions more will soon follow them. Unlike most European countries that have reasonable unemployment benefits those in Thailand are minimal.  People are losing their jobs and homes.

34 minutes ago, Sumarianson said:

The vaccine proposed is very different from previous vaccines (of which there is no conclusive evidence of their efficacy) the new vaccine will enter and change your DNA

What changes to peoples DNA will the vaccine do ?

15 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Yes I have read this....also one must be careful when entering a supermarket... DON'T let them take your Temperature on your forehead--- because it just erases your memory....I went for a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread yesterday and came home with a case of beer and a bottle of wine.

 

Also they are getting private information from you brain

Now look what you’ve done..... you just started the latest conspiracy theory. This’ll be all over Twitter FB and YouTube before the day's out.

15 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Amazing you should mention that.  It happened to me too, just 2 days ago. 

 

.......you got 5 boyfreinds as well ????

55 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Personally i think ALL countries have done a terrible job , destroying 20-30% of ALL the worlds economies for the 0.00008% of the world's population that have died, which included the old, cancer sufferers and those run over by buses but later tested positive.  Basically 3000-4000 people have lost their jobs or income for every 1 death (death rate being 1 in 12,000 !). Personally I think that the numbers just don't add up any more. Open up, wear a mask, get on with it.

How did you get 0.00008% based on 688k deaths on a 7.8b world population? 1/12000 however is 0.008%, which is the right answer to how much of the world pop died (based on worldometer stats)

 

The numbers don't add up now, because drastic measures have flattened the curve. Since you said you think all countries did a bad job i'm assuming you know exactly all measures each and every country took. So i'm very curious to what you think what would be the right way to deal with the situation. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

.......you got 5 boyfreinds as well ????

um, no. Just one very jealous and possessive  wife. 

1 hour ago, Sumarianson said:

Really????? 1 life? To destroy a country and devastate its people, cause misery and death toll from poverty, depression. Businesses and jobs lost? For one life????? It is your type of mentality that causes problems of the magnitude we have had and still have. You love being controlled as you would not know how to tie your laces otherwise. 

Your comments are just plain ignorant. Go read about the devastation,misery,death toll poverty and economic loss in a lot of other countries compared to Thailand.Some of those countries are now having a second wave of infections far worse than their first wave.But stick you head back in the sand.

19 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Yes I have read this....also one must be careful when entering a supermarket... DON'T let them take your Temperature on your forehead--- because it just erases your memory....I went for a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread yesterday and came home with a case of beer and a bottle of wine.

 

Also they are getting private information from you brain

 

16 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Amazing you should mention that.  It happened to me too, just 2 days ago. 

I'm sure that something like that happened to me, but I can't remember!

 

I need a cider, but the kitchen is full of cases of UHT milk!

When this novel coronavirus started to make the headlines so little was known of its veracity there was widespread concern, rightly so. SARS and MERS outbreaks had frighteningly high fatality rates and fortunately relatively low transmission rates - those viruses passed before much research could be carried out on a cure or vaccine. 

This new virus, another coronavirus was spreading rapidly, with the recent MERS and SARS experience, modelling identified frightening numbers with transmission rates similar to Influenza. The risk of overwhelming demand on the healthcare serves a very real potential. Legislating social isolation and international lockdown was a sensible option but ultimately a decision taken too late. 

 

As weeks passed to months more became known of the virus, its transmission rates were extremely high, its fatality rates not as alarming as MERS or SARS, the modelling regarding fatalities was incorrect. That said, the lockdowns prevented any major peaks, health services were not overwhelmed (in the UK the the ICU beds were at a maximum of 30% in use at the peak of the virus and the Nightingale hospitals were not utilised, although an excellent backup - the preparedness was there which is a good thing). 

 

Thus: Massive peak averted - lockdown was effective, the goals achieved. 

 

 

Why then is Thailand continuing to lock down when the objectives of lockdown; ’smoothing’ the curve, limiting the peak, healthcare services not overwhelmed have all been successfully achieved?

 

Why has the aim changed from protection for the health services from being overwhelmed to attempting to eradicate the virus from Thailand's shores?

 

Choosing the Economy over possible deaths is a terrible decision to have to make - but aren’t those decisions being made daily when little is done towards making the roads safer, kids drown at such alarmingly high rates ? etc...

 

 

The ongoing lockdown now seems to be an example of where the cure is more damaging than the disease. 

 

I don’t think people (I) would expect Thailand to fully open up as it had before. Yet it can take measures to safely open up and allow the economy, particularly the tourism sector to breathe.

 

Options could include: 

- Pre-Flight Covid-19 PCR test negative result (to be allowed to board)

- Covid-19 PCR test on arrival

- Track and trace of arriving tourists (who have to leave ‘real details’ and show bookings)

- Continued ‘mitigation methods in place’ (mask wearing, hand washing, alcohol gels etc)

- Continued education cleaning, sanitisation etc

 

Nothing is water tight. Pre-flight Covid-19 PCR tests would eradicate the majority of positive cases. But, cases would get through and there would be outbreaks as nothing is water tight, this is where track and trace comes in. 

 

All that is needed is the infection rate is kept low and the Economy and tourism sector can tread water instead of tanking. 

 

The existing situation is a devastating hit to the Economy, unemployment as high as 25% (according to Thailand Chamber of Commerce) and the consequent knock on impact of that - poorer health, suicides, increase in crime, increase in indiscriminate violence, increase in confrontational crime, robbery)

 

 

The decisions currently being made are of a singular facet of making Thailand water tight against Covid-19 while the bigger picture is being overlooked. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 20206 yr by richard_smith237

2 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

 

I'm sure that something like that happened to me, but I can't remember!

 

I need a cider, but the kitchen is full of cases of UHT milk!

how awful for you. Off topic now, Talking of cider, found a shop near me selling a really dry cider, which I like, that is so dry, it takes the roof off your mouth. Can't remember the brand, but surprised to see it here.   Expensive though, 110 Baht per can. Okay, back to the topic.  Sorry mods.  

It's not like we can be sure of a vaccine within a time frame where the whole world doesn't go bust. I think the Thai authorities are going to prove to be victims of their own success. In the absence of a vaccine there is ‘no risk-free’ next step, and I think the authorities will be reluctant to go from zero cases, to having cases, if they and the rest of the world open up in the absence of a vaccine.

Got to take my hat off to Thais in general who somehow dodged the bullet.

To those of you suggesting that tourism can start again I say "<deleted>" not just yet.

Impossible to control with wealthy folks like the middle east demanding entry (if he can come, why can't I ) syndrome. The middle East looks riddled with the virus

Even the UK,Australia, US, Indonesia, Malaysia, India for example we just have no safe way for them to come here without quarantine yet without risking a 2nd wave.

Incidently I am hurting financially very badly, but need to ride the storm for a while yet

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

When this novel coronavirus started to make the headlines so little was know of its veracity there was widespread concern, rightly so. SARS and MERS outbreaks had frighteningly high fatality rates and fortunately relatively low transmission rates - the viruses passed before much research could be carried out on a cure or vaccine. 

This new virus, another coronavirus was spreading rapidly, with the recent MERS and SARS experience modelling identified frightening numbers with transmission rates similar to Influenza. The risk of overwhelming demand on the healthcare serves a very real potential. Legislating social isolation and international lockdown was a sensible option but ultimately a decision taken too late. 

 

As weeks passed to months more became known of the virus, its transmission rates were extremely high, its fatality rates not as alarming as MERS or SARS, the modelling regarding fatalities was incorrect. That said, the lockdowns prevented any major peaks, health services were not overwhelmed (in the UK the the ICU beds were at a maximum of 30% in use at the peak of the virus and the Nightingale hospitals were not utilised, although an excellent backup - the preparedness was there which is a good thing). 

 

Thus: Massive peak averted - lockdown was effective the goals achieved. 

 

Why then is Thailand continuing to lock down when the objectives of lockdown were ’smoothing’ the curve, limiting the peak so that healthcare services were not overwhelmed. 

 

Why has the aim changed from protection the health services from being overwhelmed to attempting to eradicate the virus from its shores?

 

Choosing the Economy over possible deaths is a terrible decision to have to make - but aren’t those decisions being made daily when little is done towards making the roads safer and kids drown at such alarmingly high rates ? etc...

 

 

This is definitely an example where the cure is more damaging than the disease. 

 

I don’t think people (I) would expect Thailand to fully open up as it had before. Yet it can take measures to safely open up the economy, particularly the tourism sector. 

 

Options could include: 

- Pre-Flight Covid-19 PCR test (to be allowed to board)

- Covid-19 PCR test on arrival

- Track and trace of arriving tourists (who have to leave ‘real details’ and show bookings)

- Continued ‘mitigation methods in place’ (mask wearing, hand washing, alcohol gels etc)

- Continued education cleaning, sanitisation etc

 

Nothing is water tight. Pre-flight Covid-19 PCR tests would eradicate the majority of positive cases. But, cases would get through and there would be outbreaks as nothing is water tight, this is where track and trace comes in. 

 

All that is needed is the infection rate is kept low and the Economy and tourism sector can tread water instead of tanking. 

 

The existing situation is a devastating hit to the Economy, unemployment as high as 25% (according to Thailand Chamber of Commerce) and the consequent knock on impact of that - poorer health, suicides, increase in crime, increase in indiscriminate violence, increase in confrontational crime, robbery)

 

 

The decisions currently being made are of a singular facet of making Thailand water tight against Covid-19 while the bigger picture is being overlooked. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

+1

Think the government has dug themselves into a deep hole and now don't know how to get out of it. Even with a vaccine this is probably going to kill people every year, sad but true.

Great demonstration of people control but it won't last. To be fair stopping tourists was the correct response but closing all those small businesses was unnecessary for the flu which has killed, in total, less than a single day on the roads.

13 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Why then is Thailand continuing to lock down when the objectives of lockdown; ’smoothing’ the curve, limiting the peak, healthcare services not overwhelmed have all been successfully achieved?

 

Why has the aim changed from protection for the health services from being overwhelmed to attempting to eradicate the virus from Thailand's shores?

Thailand  isnt under lock down though, everything's open and back to normal (apart from heat testing at shopping malls (not sure what the situation is with with sporting events though)) 

1 hour ago, Sumarianson said:

One more who knows none of the facts, has read and watched only mainstream news

 

1 hour ago, Sumarianson said:

The vaccine proposed is very different from previous vaccines (of which there is no conclusive evidence of their efficacy) the new vaccine will enter and change your DNA.

One more who watched too many conspiracy theories.

It will change our DNA. Wow! That's where I stopped reading.

Why do so many people think that mainstream media reports incorrect and some nutters who spread conspiracy theories are right?

 

Maybe next thing we read is that the Amis brought the virus from the moon. But then they were never up there so that can't be true. Or maybe one of those flat-earthers got the virus from the edge of the flat earth. Maybe! I am sure the mainstream media would not tell us such horrific details.

 

this government regime is a complete failure, the result of all the nonsense they have done will come out in a couple of months.