Thai e-vehicle industry set for rapid growth

[Youlike]

Are there electric cars with airconditioning already?

 

In Bangkok you can easy get into a 2 hour traffic jam, can the car with aircon survive that in full sun or will the battery run empty, driver stepping out and there's an abandoned car on the road.

Edited August 4, 2020 by Youlike

[sezze]

1 hour ago, Youlike said:

Are there electric cars with airconditioning already?

 

In Bangkok you can easy get into a 2 hour traffic jam, can the car with aircon survive that in full sun or will the battery run empty, driver stepping out and there's an abandoned car on the road.

The cars have AC , but using it will run down the battery .

 

[sezze]

3 hours ago, ChristianBlessing said:

Interestingly in the US all EV manufacturers warranty their batteries for 8 years or 100,000 miles/160,000 KM, with some offering 10 year warranties. Buying a used EV at 2-4 years old may in fact be a great investment as the buyer has avoided the initial depreciation of the vehicle.

 

Your point about the grid is well-taken. Many rural parts of Thailand may struggle with both supply and reliability as demand grows.

There is a thing about batteries , especially Li-ion ones is that there is a max lifetime , not relevant to the usage . Battery technology has improved already a lot , and is still improving quite rapid , which is why they can give the 8-10y warranty . Hot temperature might not hurt Li-ion as much as lead acid , but if they are hurt by heat , the result can be disaster and not only for the battery .

"Most lithium-ion (Li-ion) cells must not be charged above 45°C or discharged above 60°C. These limits can be pushed a bit higher, but at the expense of cycle life. In the worst case, if cell temperatures get too high, venting may occur, resulting in battery failure or even a cell fire"

 

[bodga]

17 hours ago, canopy said:

The power company has proven capable of fulfilling increased demands from the village level

So why is  my electric  going off regularly in Thailand whereas in the UK Its probably once a decade? here its once a  week if Im lucky

[Albert Zweistein]

22 hours ago, Yinn said:

 

Thailand has been a stronghold for automobile manufacturing for decades. It nicknamed itself "the Detroit of Asia," and the moniker stuck, with good reason. It's currently the 12th most industrious auto manufacturer in the world, and the largest in Southeast Asia. 

 

Japanese makers like Toyota and Mitsubishi have had operations in Thailand since the 1960s. GM, Ford, Mercedes and BMW all followed. 

Link

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/10/news/world/thailand-auto-industry/index.html

They had to follow because of high taxes on imported cars.

[rvaviator]

I think you will see a price reduction in EV once the Chinese start assembly in Thailand ..... Several good all EV are available in China. 

[AgentSmith]

People talk about cars here mostly but I think Thailand should focus on electrifying its scooters/mopeds and tuktuks first. The availability of electric scooters is minimal. Most are custom-made rebranded Chinese models with questionable batteries. Lazada mostly has models with heavy and clunky lead-acid batteries. I don't get this. Taiwan has the Gogoro scooter system among others. Europe is quickly replacing its scooter park with electric models. Cities such as Shanghai have been mostly electric for a number of years now.

 

Niu finally has electric scooters available in Thailand. But they're not available from local dealers. Not yet anyway. And they're expensive albeit interesting nonetheless. Charge at home, 3kW power, max torque from 0 to 80 (kph). These things are monsters for driving in the city. Suitable for overweight falang. ???? But where are the e-scooters made by Honda, Yamaha and the likes?? Thailand's EV market seems to start very slow, if moving at all. And the rest of the world sees one EV model after the other being put on the roads..

 

One general piece of advice I picked up from reading about EVs: always buy one that has liquid cooled batteries! The battery is the most precious part of any EV and having it liquid cooled makes it last much much longer than air cooled versions. Charging batteries heats them up and keeping them cool during the process greatly ups their lifespan. Older generations Nissan Leaf for example have air cooled batteries and those degraded quite rapidly whereas their counterparts with liquid cooled batteries see very little degradation. First gen Tesla S cars still have batteries with around 90% of their original capacity. Cheap(er) EV cars with liquid cooled batteries are also becoming available. A cheap and (very) small and fun to drive EV (judging from reviews) is the electric Smart. It has 8 air bags all around, extra stiff roll cage to keep you just as safe as in a big truck in a collision, liquid cooled batteries, and fast acceleration. Available in 2 and 4 seater. Probably not in Thailand though..

Edited August 5, 2020 by AgentSmith

[ChristianBlessing]

On 8/4/2020 at 11:30 AM, sezze said:

There is a thing about batteries , especially Li-ion ones is that there is a max lifetime , not relevant to the usage . Battery technology has improved already a lot , and is still improving quite rapid , which is why they can give the 8-10y warranty . Hot temperature might not hurt Li-ion as much as lead acid , but if they are hurt by heat , the result can be disaster and not only for the battery .

"Most lithium-ion (Li-ion) cells must not be charged above 45°C or discharged above 60°C. These limits can be pushed a bit higher, but at the expense of cycle life. In the worst case, if cell temperatures get too high, venting may occur, resulting in battery failure or even a cell fire"

 

While you're correct about Li-ion batteries, most modern electric vehicles are employing Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries which have a much longer lifespan at 10 years or longer. Not considering charge cycles LiFePo4 batteries are regarded as having a much longer life cycle. Tesla's goal of a "million mile" battery expresses the optimism surrounding this chemistry. With charge cycles as high as 3000 it's no wonder manufacturers can offer such long warranties. To be sure LiFePo4 is also susceptible to heat damage, but there is no temperature limit for discharge. They cannot, however, be charged below 0c, something that can be mitigated.

Edited August 6, 2020 by ChristianBlessing
clarity

[ExpatOilWorker]

20 minutes ago, ChristianBlessing said:

While you're correct about Li-ion batteries, most modern electric vehicles are employing Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries which have a much longer lifespan at 10 years or longer. Not considering charge cycles LiFePo4 batteries are regarded as having a much longer life cycle. Tesla's goal of a "million mile" battery expresses the optimism surrounding this chemistry. With charge cycles as high as 3000 it's no wonder manufacturers can offer such long warranties. To be sure LiFePo4 is also susceptible to heat damage, but there is no temperature limit for discharge. They cannot, however, be charged below 0c, something that can be mitigated.

Is there a reason why these Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are not used in consumer electronics?

Laptops, phones and other rechargeable gadget often have less than half the original battery capacity after 3-5 years of usage. 

[canopy]

26 minutes ago, ChristianBlessing said:

Tesla's goal of a "million mile" battery

It's no longer a goal, it's done. A two million km battery that lasts 16 years and costs 10% more:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52966178

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

9 minutes ago, canopy said:

It's no longer a goal, it's done. A two million km battery that lasts 16 years and costs 10% more:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52966178

 

Let's take this Chinese news with a couple of tons of salt, shall we?

 

Catl's claim was "significant but difficult to verify".

[rabas]

27 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Is there a reason why these Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are not used in consumer electronics?

Laptops, phones and other rechargeable gadget often have less than half the original battery capacity after 3-5 years of usage. 

Weight and capacity. (higher energy density)

 

Also note Li-ion offers reduced phone lifetimes to manufactures, more sales.

Edited August 6, 2020 by rabas

[canopy]

34 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Let's take this Chinese news with a couple of tons of salt, shall we?

CATL isn't some newbie company trying to get some free press for vaporware. CATL is the biggest battery manufacturer in the world and the supplier for Tesla, BMW, Daimler, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen and Volvo. I don't see how lying about this would serve them in any way. But definitely, let's wait and see what the auto makers have to say about this new battery. That will be the proof in the pudding.