Thai Language ED Visa WITHOUT leaving the country?

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If the local immigration office is difficult, they will usually process everything through a different immigration office, possibly in the wilds of Isaan. A rough figure for what you can expect to pay for the visa plus extension is somewhere between 23,000 and 30,000 baht

Good post BritTim.

Personally never used an agent. Your point regarding that the process is often done elsewhere is correct. Many reports of folk living in Thailand and becoming slightly unstuck with such things as 90 day reports etc if they live say Bangkok and extension obtained by agent was say Pattaya..

The guy you advised can get around this as only needs temporary fix as just needs temporary bridge until flights etc available.

Gives him one year plus. It's perhaps 25k but gives peace of mind.

@vermin on arrival

[audaciousnomad]

54 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If using an agent, they would typically need about three weeks and would deliver a 15 month permission to stay (they, in addition to other advantages can get the one year extension of your permission to stay without waiting until the last 30 days of the initial 90-day permission to stay). The costs depend on the immigration office where the visa and extension are processed (which can even be different when an agent is involved). Usually, the agent wants to minimise the bribes that are necessary to pay to immigration. If the local immigration office is difficult, they will usually process everything through a different immigration office, possibly in the wilds of Isaan. A rough figure for what you can expect to pay for the visa plus extension is somewhere between 23,000 and 30,000 baht.

On the original topic of ED visa...
If I manage to secure one, is it non extendable once it has reached the one-year maximum?

[BritTim]

35 minutes ago, audaciousnomad said:

On the original topic of ED visa...
If I manage to secure one, is it non extendable once it has reached the one-year maximum?

Assuming it is at a non formal school, it is not extendable past the one-year maximum. The rules are too unambiguous for them to be circumvented.

[jackdd]

34 minutes ago, audaciousnomad said:

On the original topic of ED visa...
If I manage to secure one, is it non extendable once it has reached the one-year maximum?

Under the official rules it's non-extendable for studying at a non-formal school once you have been in Thailand for more than a year. But if you would enroll at a formal school (university), it should be possible to further extend it, because this one year limit exists only for non-formal schools.

Actually i think it should also be possible to it extend for any other non-immigrant purpose (volunteer, retirement, working, Thai spouse, Thai children....), because afaik there is no official rule which would not allow it. The problem here is that Immigration usually doesn't want to do this, i don't know what their reason for this it.

[audaciousnomad]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Assuming it is at a non formal school, it is not extendable past the one-year maximum. The rules are too unambiguous for them to be circumvented.

 

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Under the official rules it's non-extendable for studying at a non-formal school once you have been in Thailand for more than a year.

Thanks, and is it pretty much set in stone that no matter the non-formal school I go to, if I enroll now I will only be able to study with them until one year from my entry stamp? So...example...if I arrived in Feb 2020, they will not be able to get me a visa that allows me to stay until Sept. 2021, only Feb 2021?

Edited August 11, 2020 by audaciousnomad

[jackdd]

34 minutes ago, audaciousnomad said:

Thanks, and is it pretty much set in stone that no matter the non-formal school I go to, if I enroll now I will only be able to study with them until one year from my entry stamp? So...example...if I arrived in Feb 2020, they will not be able to get me a visa that allows me to stay until Sept. 2021, only Feb 2021?

I have heard schools saying that the one year will be counted from the day the non-ED visa is issued by immigration (this will of course vary depending on the province). It will take a few more months before the first people apply for extensions which would take them over the "maximum one year since entry limit" and we have some first hands reports. Currently we can just speculate about it, nobody knows how reliable the information is. It could even be that some immigration offices now tell the schools that it's possible, but in a few months they change their mind.

Ask the school if it will be possible to extend it for more than one year total stay in Thailand, but even if they tell you now that it's possible, maybe in a few months when it's time to do it, suddenly it's not possible anymore.

[audaciousnomad]

18 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I have heard schools saying that the one year will be counted from the day the non-ED visa is issued by immigration (this will of course vary depending on the province). It will take a few more months before the first people apply for extensions which would take them over the "maximum one year since entry limit" and we have some first hands reports. Currently we can just speculate about it, nobody knows how reliable the information is. It could even be that some immigration offices now tell the schools that it's possible, but in a few months they change their mind.

Ask the school if it will be possible to extend it for more than one year total stay in Thailand, but even if they tell you now that it's possible, maybe in a few months when it's time to do it, suddenly it's not possible anymore.

I see. In that case, a quarterly installment payment plan would provide some insurance, if they would be willing to entertain that. Otherwise paying in full for a one-year program upfront could become a costly mistake.

Edited August 11, 2020 by audaciousnomad

[BritTim]

42 minutes ago, audaciousnomad said:

I see. In that case, a quarterly installment payment plan would provide some insurance, if they would be willing to entertain that. Otherwise paying in full for a one-year program upfront could become a costly mistake.

It is possible that some schools are able to present themselves as "formal" schools through a relationship with a university. I believe that has been done in Chiang Mai. In that case, on first application (if you are already on a non immigrant entry) or after the first 90 days, you will receive a full one year extension (no extensions every 90 days). It can be difficult to nail down exactly what they are doing, but important to be clear on this.

[audaciousnomad]

15 minutes ago, BritTim said:

It is possible that some schools are able to present themselves as "formal" schools through a relationship with a university. I believe that has been done in Chiang Mai. In that case, on first application (if you are already on a non immigrant entry) or after the first 90 days, you will receive a full one year extension (no extensions every 90 days). It can be difficult to nail down exactly what they are doing, but important to be clear on this.

What if on a visa exempt entry?
Also...if you are able to share...which school?

[BritTim]

45 minutes ago, audaciousnomad said:

What if on a visa exempt entry?
Also...if you are able to share...which school?

If you are on a tourist entry (including visa exempt) this must first be converted into a 90-day Non Immigrant entry which is done by issuing a Non Ed visa in-country, immediately used to give you the new permission to stay. The one-year permission to stay can be tacked onto the end of the 90 days. Since both the initial visa application, and the on-year extension are required, there will naturally be extra cost.

 

Some schools expect real students. A Chiang Mai based agent can likely point at options where studying is optional.

Edited August 11, 2020 by BritTim

[vermin on arrival]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

If using an agent, they would typically need about three weeks and would deliver a 15 month permission to stay (they, in addition to other advantages can get the one year extension of your permission to stay without waiting until the last 30 days of the initial 90-day permission to stay). The costs depend on the immigration office where the visa and extension are processed (which can even be different when an agent is involved). Usually, the agent wants to minimise the bribes that are necessary to pay to immigration. If the local immigration office is difficult, they will usually process everything through a different immigration office, possibly in the wilds of Isaan. A rough figure for what you can expect to pay for the visa plus extension is somewhere between 23,000 and 30,000 baht.

Thanks, so would need to start by the end of August at the latest if I go that route. Where would one look to find a reputable agent in BKK or who would help someone currently staying in BKK?

Edited August 11, 2020 by vermin on arrival

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, jackdd said:

I have heard schools saying that the one year will be counted from the day the non-ED visa is issued by immigration (this will of course vary depending on the province).

Immigrations standard procedure is that when the visa application is approved and stamped in the passport a new 90 day entry stamp is done that voids out the original entry stamp.

[ANDREW999]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

It is possible that some schools are able to present themselves as "formal" schools through a relationship with a university. I believe that has been done in Chiang Mai. In that case, on first application (if you are already on a non immigrant entry) or after the first 90 days, you will receive a full one year extension (no extensions every 90 days). It can be difficult to nail down exactly what they are doing, but important to be clear on this.

I guess that's why Pro Language school from Pattaya can offer me a 3 months ed visa, while CM branch assured me they can process a 12 months ed visa

[Logosone]

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

Assuming it is at a non formal school, it is not extendable past the one-year maximum. The rules are too unambiguous for them to be circumvented.

I have been told by a school that the ED Visa is extendable into a second year, this is a non-formal, ie non-University school but accredited with the Ministry of Education, here in Chiang Mai.

 

Of course they may have meant you have to leave Thailand to achieve it, or they just say that as a matter of course to sign people up.

 

 

[Logosone]

12 hours ago, jackdd said:

Under the official rules it's non-extendable for studying at a non-formal school once you have been in Thailand for more than a year. But if you would enroll at a formal school (university), it should be possible to further extend it, because this one year limit exists only for non-formal schools.

Actually i think it should also be possible to it extend for any other non-immigrant purpose (volunteer, retirement, working, Thai spouse, Thai children....), because afaik there is no official rule which would not allow it. The problem here is that Immigration usually doesn't want to do this, i don't know what their reason for this it.

Excellent post. I actually know someone who extended his ED Visa into a volunteer visa.

[Caldera]

On 8/10/2020 at 10:36 PM, edwardandtubs said:

That's a far more sensible way of doing it. Pity the Pattaya branch didn't get the memo.

Apparently they've received the memo in the meantime. When I contacted them a few days later, they only wanted a photo of the entry stamp, plus a confirmation from me that I'm not / wasn't on overstay. I agree that it's unreasonable to expect photos of each and every passport page.

 

Their deadline (August 17th) is fast approaching though and I'm still exploring other options, so after having received their confirmation that it could be done, I have yet to decide if I'll go ahead with it.

[kekalot]

On 8/8/2020 at 10:46 PM, jackdd said:

Actually the police order regarding extensions says that it's one year from entering Thailand (for studying at non-formal schools that is, studying at a formal school doesn't have this limit). So if you entered Thailand in March 2020 and get an ED visa now, you could only stay until March 2021 at most (total stay in Thailand one year) and then you would have to leave.

But it looks like most immigration offices interpret it so that the year starts when you actually got the ED visa (which is imho not in compliance with the police order, and could potentially used by them to extort money, we have to see if this happens)

 

this, I had ED visa before and the first time the guy at immigration told me that they can do it for I believe 11k baht, which is a bunch of BS because the only receipt you will get is for the 2000 baht it SHOULD cost

anyways, for me to go to Laos 1-2 days to apply for it was a pain so i just paid the 11k and then got the visa but at the last extension they told me "nope, you can only stay maximum of 1 year in Thailand" which included the 2-3 months I was already on a tourist visa

 

so instead of being forced to exit to get the visa I was forced to exit to renew it, very last minute little trip to Malaysia for like 30 minutes.

[AusDieMaus]

I am in the process of getting a Non-ED visa from PRO language school in Pattaya. The price is 25k Baht for 3 months and 36k Baht for 6 months. This includes all fees for the visa and language class fees. Classes can be taken online, so you are able to do this from anywhere in Thailand. 90 days report will be 5k Baht, but you have to be in Pattaya for that.

[audaciousnomad]

3 hours ago, kekalot said:

 

this, I had ED visa before and the first time the guy at immigration told me that they can do it for I believe 11k baht, which is a bunch of BS because the only receipt you will get is for the 2000 baht it SHOULD cost

anyways, for me to go to Laos 1-2 days to apply for it was a pain so i just paid the 11k and then got the visa but at the last extension they told me "nope, you can only stay maximum of 1 year in Thailand" which included the 2-3 months I was already on a tourist visa

 

so instead of being forced to exit to get the visa I was forced to exit to renew it, very last minute little trip to Malaysia for like 30 minutes.

Yes...but at this time, it is not possible to do that "little" 30 minute trip. ????

[BritTim]

On 8/10/2020 at 1:12 AM, audaciousnomad said:

No classes? Wouldn't they verify your attendance somehow?

Well, if there are no classes, your record is, by definition, perfect with no missed attendance.

 

Seriously, immigration is paid to look the other way. There is a (very small) chance that there could be a crackdown from on high.

[audaciousnomad]

4 hours ago, AusDieMaus said:

I am in the process of getting a Non-ED visa from PRO language school in Pattaya. The price is 25k Baht for 3 months and 36k Baht for 6 months. This includes all fees for the visa and language class fees. Classes can be taken online, so you are able to do this from anywhere in Thailand. 90 days report will be 5k Baht, but you have to be in Pattaya for that.

Note that they are not entertaining the normally one-year ED visas. It's because that is impossible since no one has an entry date of August 2020.  So the longest you can stay is Mar 2021, then you must exit.

[CorpusChristie]

11 minutes ago, audaciousnomad said:

Note that they are not entertaining the normally one-year ED visas. It's because that is impossible since no one has an entry date of August 2020.  So the longest you can stay is Mar 2021, then you must exit.

Also, I dont think that its possible to get another Ed- visa whilst in Thailand, is it ?

[audaciousnomad]

8 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Also, I dont think that its possible to get another Ed- visa whilst in Thailand, is it ?

What I understand is that's not possible. One would need to seek a conversion to another type...for example, volunteer visa.  I just don't know if that conversion would require an exit, or another "in-country conversion fee".  Perhaps other more knowledgeable members can chime in.

Edited August 13, 2020 by audaciousnomad