UK steps up plans to tackle migrant Channel crossings with new commander

[melvinmelvin]

7 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

1) As a commercial enterprise, the dingy "captain" must have a valid captains license and adequate insurance for his customers. Having neither a captains license nor insurance is very illegal. 

2)Max seating capacity. Most of these blow up dingies have a max 4 person seating. Cramming a dozen strapping lads onto it is clearly way over loaded. Again, for most people this would be totally illegal and would be arrested by the harbor master as soon as they left the dock.

3)Required navigation and communication devices. Are these dingys fitted with VHF radios, GPS transmitters as required on all other commercial vessels

 4)intent to bypass official immigration channels - I'm pretty sure people smuggling is still illegal.

5) Required navigation lights. Red-port/green starboard. plus general running lights. Captaining an un-seaworthy vessel through the world's busiest shipping land without lights is both insane and dangerous.

6)non compliance with covid social distancing measures and failure to wear face masks.

 

 Well it's a start Chomper. Totally illegal. The question is why are laws being selectively enforced, and is it possible that selective law enforcement/official double standards might be inflammatory and divisive and lead to negative sentiment towards migrants and the government?

 

you are quite far off with your list of legal/illegal issues

 

which laws are you referring to? the topdeadsenter laws?

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

17 hours ago, kingdong said:

the uk has no legal or moral duty to economic migrants,

...and no legal or practical lever to send them anywhere. Unless you can find an agreement with another country to accept them. 

[transam]

11 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

...and no legal or practical lever to send them anywhere. Unless you can find an agreement with another country to accept them. 

Your place, or even Chompers......?

 

Well you are sticking up for these folk, why not put your money, and back garden where your mouth is...?

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Your place, or even Chompers......?

 

Well you are sticking up for these folk, why not put your money, and back garden where your mouth is...?

 

 

They're just referring to current law- no need to make it personal.

[TopDeadSenter]

39 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

you are quite far off with your list of legal/illegal issues

 

which laws are you referring to? the topdeadsenter laws?

UK govt legal requirements for small commercial vessels(the French will have very similar rules) up to 24m carrying up to 12 passengers can be found here, my brief summary above was not even scratching the surface.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/830430/yellow.pdf

[transam]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

They're just referring to current law- no need to make it personal.

????.......Those who want all these money spongers into the UK should put their money where their mouth is, fund it, take care of them, but naaaaaaaaaah, if that were to happen they would disappear, never to be heard of again, just keyboard players................????

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

????..<SNIP>, just keyboard players................????

 

And you?

[welovesundaysatspace]

32 minutes ago, transam said:

Your place, or even Chompers......?

 

Well you are sticking up for these folk, why not put your money, and back garden where your mouth is...?

The UK will do that. To put in the other poster’s words: I don’t have any legal or moral obligations. Even less so as I’m not even living in Europe. I was just stating the facts. Even though some people might not like them. 
 

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by welovesundaysatspace

[transam]

31 minutes ago, simple1 said:

And you?

Me, I'm just an old yob who thinks of his country first, not like others who want to give it away.

The UK had poverty along side the rich, over time the playing field evened out a bit, without killing off the monarchy like others,  now the economic migrants want to milk what we fought for, instead of dealing with their own countries problems... 

 

[simple1]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Me, I'm just an old yob who thinks of his country first, not like others who want to give it away.

The UK had poverty along side the rich, over time the playing field evened out a bit, without killing off the monarchy like others,  now the economic migrants want to milk what we fought for, instead of dealing with their own countries problems... 

 

 

You will find many genuine refugees fled their home countries to escape from serving in the dictatorship's military. As you know those rising up against dictatorships were/are brutally repressed, Syria being the prime example. Not sure of current stats, but previously the majority of asylum seekers were assessed as genuine refugees, not economic refugees. Germany had a lot of economic refugees from Wester Balkan countries, but little to zero comments about that on this forum. Unfortunately, EU / UK struggle to achieve government to government agreements to deport rejected asylum seekers as well as not allocating sufficient funds / resources to manage the situation. I do recall the EU (?) agreement with Libya which turned into a disaster with returnees and those entering the country via borders being held and sexually abused, tortured, raped and so on.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, simple1 said:

You will find many genuine refugees fled their home countries to escape from serving in the dictatorship's military. As you know those rising up against dictatorships were/are brutally repressed, Syria being the prime example. Not sure of current stats, but previously the majority of asylum seekers were assessed as genuine refugees, not economic refugees. Germany had a lot of economic refugees from Wester Balkan countries, but little to zero comments about that on this forum. Unfortunately, EU / UK struggle to achieve government to government agreements to deport rejected asylum seekers as well as not allocating sufficient funds / resources to manage the situation. I do recall the EU (?) agreement with Libya which turned into a disaster with returnees and those entering the country via borders being held and sexually abused, tortured, raped and so on.

Similar stuff happened at the hands of EU countries, not that long ago...

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

UK govt legal requirements for small commercial vessels(the French will have very similar rules) up to 24m carrying up to 12 passengers can be found here, my brief summary above was not even scratching the surface.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/830430/yellow.pdf

UK legislation does not apply to beaches (or anywhere else) in France

 

Commercial vessel? says you, who else?

 

your comments about navgiation lights gps radio are way off

 

[simple1]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

Similar stuff happened at the hands of EU countries, not that long ago...

true

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Any particular reason the OP article makes absolutely no mention of what nationality folks are making these channel crossings headed for the UK?

 

[Dumbastheycome]

2 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

    Why do so many ignorant people blame the US, UK, or even Russia over Oil, Those countries that have serious problems, have been invaded to end the violence that's been going on, they have not been colonised, but left to manage their own affairs after the the violence has ended. Then its the new rulers and warlords that start all over again, because they are incapable of running those countries without corruption.

      Its true the worlds oil supply is important, but the so called invaders have not gone in to steal or take it.

????

[Opl]

50 minutes ago, simple1 said:

You will find many genuine refugees fled their home countries to escape from serving in the dictatorship's military. As you know those rising up against dictatorships were/are brutally repressed, Syria being the prime example. Not sure of current stats, but previously the majority of asylum seekers were assessed as genuine refugees, not economic refugees. Germany had a lot of economic refugees from Wester Balkan countries, but little to zero comments about that on this forum. Unfortunately, EU / UK struggle to achieve government to government agreements to deport rejected asylum seekers as well as not allocating sufficient funds / resources to manage the situation. I do recall the EU (?) agreement with Libya which turned into a disaster with returnees and those entering the country via borders being held and sexually abused, tortured, raped and so on.

and of course it's why thousands of illegal economic migrants head to Lybia in their attempts to smuggle into Europe, and of course Nigerian prostitutes are to be considered as genuine asylum seekers, as well as the men they travel with, etc, etc..     

[lee b]

just dont give them ANYTHING, except a ride back to France that is. What would be the point of going to the UK if they dont get any cash, house food or any other thing the poor BRITISH tax payer has to pay for?

[7by7]

22 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Or turn the boats around, and give them a good hard push back out into international waters!

 

But, seriously, I agree. Any illegal immigrants should be placed in a not too comfortable detention center whilst their fate is decided: genuine asylum or deportation for illegal economic migrants. No four star accommodation with free wifi, clothes, food etc etc etc. 

 

Four star accommodation with free wifi? No. If they are lucky and have family with them, they may get a small flat or house; often shared with others. Otherwise it's at best a bed and breakfast or a hostel. If really unlucky it's an Immigration Detention Centre. Though to be honest, those are usually reserved for asylum seekers whose applications have been refused or for those awaiting deportation for some other reason.

 

Of course they get money for food, clothes etc.! What would you prefer? That they have to resort to begging and stealing to feed and clothe themselves?

 

See Asylum support; What you'll get

[7by7]

22 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Maybe the UK should take a leaf out of Australia's book? They dealt with too many illegals coming by boat.

Australia's sending refugees to Nauru and Manus Island has been, and still is, subject to much controversy; not least because it breaks international law and UNHCR agreements which Australia had previously signed up and agreed to.

 

23 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

Isle of Wight could house some nice detention centers.

What do you suggest we do with the people already living on the Island? Don't you think they may object to such centres? They already have a high security category B prison as a neighbour?

[7by7]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Similar stuff happened at the hands of EU countries, not that long ago...

 Indeed, and we in the UK welcomed the refugees fleeing that oppression, persecution and murder.

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Opl said:

and of course it's why thousands of illegal economic migrants head to Lybia in their attempts to smuggle into Europe, and of course Nigerian prostitutes are to be considered as genuine asylum seekers, as well as the men they travel with, etc, etc..     

 

Are you denying the fact asylum seekers are sexually abused, tortured and so on in Libya? Most women are trafficked by organised crime, it's been reported numerous times e.g.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/how-the-nigerian-mafia-exploits-african-women-in-europe/a-51696034

[CorpusChristie]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Are you denying the fact asylum seekers are sexually abused, tortured and so on in Libya? Most women are trafficked by organised crime, it's been reported numerous times e.g.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/how-the-nigerian-mafia-exploits-african-women-in-europe/a-51696034

You posted a link about Nigerian females' who are smuggled into Germany , not sure what thats got to do with Asylum seekers coming to the UK from France

[7by7]

One very important fact being forgotten by many posters is that most refugees don't come to Europe at all and those who do make no attempt to come to the UK.

 

The truth about… refugees

Quote

Europe’s refugee crisis is getting worse, and if you listen to government ministers and many other political commentators, constitutes a dire threat.

In reality, the countries most affected by this increase in refugees are thousands of miles away; and the impact on Europe constitutes only a fraction of a refugee crisis arising from conflicts that have grown and spread across the Near and Middle East, and sub-Saharan Africa

That comes from Amnesty International, so it's contents will be dismissed out of hand by some here. But as that article concludes

Quote

Of course we’re all free to believe the opposite to these truths if we’re so inclined. But doing so won’t help us face up to the current global refugee crisis and it won’t make it go away either.

 

[7by7]

More mythbusting.

 

From Asylum in the UK:

Does the UK have more asylum-seekers than most countries?

No, it does not. In the year ending March 2020, the UK received 35,099 asylum applications from main applicants only. This was 11% more than the previous year. Over the same period, asylum applications to other EU countries have also seen a slight increase. 

In the fourth quarter of 2019, the highest number of first-time asylum applicants was registered in Spain (with 35,400 first-time applicants, or 21 % of all first-time applicants in the EU Member States), followed by France (32,800 or 19 %), Germany (31,600 or 18 %) and Greece (28,000 or 16 %). These four Members States account for 74% of all first-time applicants in the EU-27. These figures include all asylum applicants, not just main applicants (i.e. including children and other dependents). 

World-wide  around  84% of all refugees live in developing regions , not in wealthy industrialised countries. 

(Source:  Home Office,  EuroStat) 

How many refugees are there in the UK?

According to UNHCR statistics, at the end of 2018 there were 126,720 refugees, 45,244 pending asylum cases and 125 stateless persons in the UK. 

The vast majority of refugees – 4 out of 5 – stay in their region of displacement, and consequently are hosted by developing countries. Turkey now hosts the highest number of refugees with 3.7 million, followed by Pakistan with 1.4 million. 

(Source:  Home Office,  UNHCR 2018  Global Trends  Report) 

[simple1]

22 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

You posted a link about Nigerian females' who are smuggled into Germany , not sure what thats got to do with Asylum seekers coming to the UK from France

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ask the member who mentioned them to whom I replied, I assume he's referencing trafficked females into EU / UK, thereby to link to the OP. if you wish to report as off Topic so be it. There's so much cruelty surrounding the asylum seeker journey. I find belittlingly commentary very distasteful. Remember Europol saying 10,000 asylum seeker children had 'disappeared' in the EU, one can realistically believe they were trafficked by organised crime into street crime and sexual exploitation. How many care with their sneering spiteful generalised comments regards asylum seekers?

Edited August 11, 2020 by simple1

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Any particular reason the OP article makes absolutely no mention of what nationality folks are making these channel crossings headed for the UK?

 

He also doesn’t mention their favorite color, whether they’re are vegan or not, as well as shoe sizes. Coincidence or is the author deliberately keeping these things a secret? 

[Opl]

40 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Are you denying the fact asylum seekers are sexually abused, tortured and so on in Libya? Most women are trafficked by organised crime, it's been reported numerous times e.g.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/how-the-nigerian-mafia-exploits-african-women-in-europe/a-51696034

Are you denying that " smugglers bring 90% of the refugees and migrants to the EU, with roughly 20% of the cases involving trafficking in persons. The European Police Office, Europol, estimates that the general increase in migrant volumes will also increase the number of cases involving exploitation and trafficking (Europol: Migrant Smuggling in the EU, 2016). "

https://www.syrjinta.fi/documents/14490/0/nigerialasselvitys+englanti/7d03d19d-bf75-4ff4-952a-e0bd4fbe2dd4

Are you denying that fake asylum seekers de facto sponsor smugglers lucrative traffickings, the victims being the countries of destination

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

He also doesn’t mention their favorite color, whether they’re are vegan or not, as well as shoe sizes. Coincidence or is the author deliberately keeping these things a secret? 

 

Quite a stupid comment. You don't think it's relevant to the article whether the boat people coming from France are actually French, or citizens from some other countries that have managed to get into France? And if so, what countries?

 

[elliss]

21 hours ago, david555 said:

i did not meant it so drastic , but interference in other country's is sometimes made for opportunistic purposes (oil is one of them, or geo military  interest from eg. World powers )  like for now Syria is in destruction all under the flag of human rights ,  which created a big refugee problem , same for Afghanistan …. Russians gave up , moved out …. Americans moved in for their chance ...and can also not win ….. looks like training camp for big war(s)

 

All those created the refugee mess …..+ the economic ones , our own Western gov. have created by their interference. 

 

 David .

 Do you refer to the UK. Government , as under Tory Capitalist rule , or Champagne socialists.? 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by elliss

[david555]

Just now, elliss said:

 

 David .

 Do you refer to the UK. Government , as under Tory Capitalist rule , or Champagne socialists . 

 

 

Nobody in particular …. all politicians party's  some more than others …. even not specific to U.K. but in general World leaders politics