Convert to METV to something?

[NorthernRyland]

I'm here on amnesty from a METV and about to book my ticket back home to the US. I have a bad feeling about going back there at this movement though, especially since I need to look for work in the middle of this pandemic with record unemployment.

 

Is there anything I could convert to from my METV, if even to buy me a few more months? Could I even marry my girlfriend if I wanted to and get a Non-O (I think that's what they're called) while in the country? I'm facing a $1000+ USD one way ticket back home (to potentially face months of unemployment and no way to escape back to Thailand if everything fails) so maybe I could spend that on some other kind of visa while still in Thailand?

[ubonjoe]

You don't have a lot of options.

Have you applied for the 30 day extension of the 60 day entry form your visa yet? You could it now get a get some more time.

Getting married might be an option. Even without a non-o visa you could apply a 60 day extension to visit your new wife.

To apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration you would need 400k baht in a Thai bank on the day you apply or proof of 40k baht income. Then during the last 30 days of the 90 days you could apply for a one year extension of stay. At that time the 400k baht would have to be in the bank for 2 months.

[NorthernRyland]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You don't have a lot of options.

Have you applied for the 30 day extension of the 60 day entry form your visa yet? You could it now get a get some more time.

My last entry expired in May I believe and been on amnesty since then. Can you get an extension with an expired stamp like I have?

 

Quote

Getting married might be an option. Even without a non-o visa you could apply a 60 day extension to visit your new wife.

To apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa (category O) entry at immigration you would need 400k baht in a Thai bank on the day you apply or proof of 40k baht income. Then during the last 30 days of the 90 days you could apply for a one year extension of stay. At that time the 400k baht would have to be in the bank for 2 months.

I thought you could only get that visa category outside of Thailand? That's what I thought was the issue with the "End of visa amnesty may spell uncertainty for some expats in Thailand" thread which I just read through. Please clarify what the issue with needing to leave the country is then.

[lovesthespicy]

If you're willing to spend money agents can get you set up with something.  Obv their shady operations so depends on your risk tolerance. 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, genericptr said:

My last entry expired in May I believe and been on amnesty since then. Can you get an extension with an expired stamp like I have?

Yes it is possible to apply for a 30 day extension? Or if you get married a 60 day extension.

 

7 minutes ago, genericptr said:

I thought you could only get that visa category outside of Thailand? That's what I thought was the issue with the "End of visa amnesty may spell uncertainty for some expats in Thailand" thread which I just read through. Please clarify what the issue with needing to leave the country is then.

If you can qualify for certain extensions of stay it is possible to apply for a non immigrant visas at immigration.

You have to read the topic and the immigration notice carefully. The point of it was to let people know what options they have. A person cannot be complacent and wait to see if another extension of the minister notice is done or not.

 

 

[DrJack54]

OP, get married. Set up the financials asap.

Obtain 60 day extension to visit wife.

In that 60 days obtain your non O marriage. (90 day).

I the last 30 days obtain your annual extension. 

If you go back to the states it may well be long time before your able to return.

[NorthernRyland]

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes it is possible to apply for a 30 day extension? Or if you get married a 60 day extension.

 

 I thought the 30 day 1900 baht extension was not available for me now since my last stamp expired on May 5th. That's at least some leverage I could use.

 

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

30 minutes ago, genericptr said:

I thought you could only get that visa category outside of Thailand? That's what I thought was the issue with the "End of visa amnesty may spell uncertainty for some expats in Thailand" thread which I just read through. Please clarify what the issue with needing to leave the country is then.

If you can qualify for certain extensions of stay it is possible to apply for a non immigrant visas at immigration.

You have to read the topic and the immigration notice carefully. The point of it was to let people know what options they have. A person cannot be complacent and wait to see if another extension of the minister notice is done or not.

 

Read over the main post again and I think the term "extensions of stay" is a technical term that gets lost on laypeople like myself. So people who don't qualify for "extensions of stay", that is 400k baht in the bank etc... need to do 90 day border jumps and that's obviously at risk right now. Got it.

 

I didn't actually know you could be married and get 90 days entries. Are those 90 days available in perpetuity to do they expect you to get the proper extension of stay at a certain point? I suspect they're limited in some capacity.

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, genericptr said:

I thought the 30 day 1900 baht extension was not available for me now since my last stamp expired on May 5th.

It has never expired. You got a "automatic extension" under the amnesty. Many people have applied for extension while on the amnesty.

20 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Read over the main post again and I think the term "extensions of stay" is a technical term that gets lost on laypeople like myself.

That is because people call them visas or visa extensions. It is a extension of your permit to stay in the country.

 

22 minutes ago, genericptr said:

I didn't actually know you could be married and get 90 days entries. Are those 90 days available in perpetuity to do they expect you to get the proper extension of stay at a certain point?

You apply for a non immigrant visa that allows one 90 day entry that is stamped in your passport at the same time the visa stamped you passport. To get the one visa entry you have to qualify for a one year extension by showing about all of the paperwork needed to apply for the one year extension of stay.

[NorthernRyland]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It has never expired. You got a "automatic extension" under the amnesty. Many people have applied for extension while on the amnesty.

 

 

Got it. IO's are confused also. Just saw this thread https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1178088-visa-extension/ where he has the same issue.

 

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You apply for a non immigrant visa that allows one 90 day entry that is stamped in your passport at the same time the visa stamped you passport. To get the one visa entry you have to qualify for a one year extension by showing about all of the paperwork needed to apply for the one year extension of stay.

So then why does anyone do the 3 month border runs instead of getting the 1 year extension of say? The qualifications are exactly the same it appears. Reading over the aforementioned thread people make it sound like they don't qualify for something and therefore are doing the borders jumps, which from what you say I think means actually applying for a new visa out of country every 3 months. That sounds crazy so I must be missing something.

 

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, genericptr said:

So then why does anyone do the 3 month border runs instead of getting the 1 year extension of say? The qualifications are exactly the same it appears.

The are not the same. It requires a lot more paperwork and financial proof than applying for a non-o visa at a embassy or consulate to apply for a one year extension.

Most people getting the non-o visa are applying for multiple entry visa that is valid for one year and allow unlimited 90 day entries, They have to leave and re-enter the country every 90 days.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

The are not the same. It requires a lot more paperwork and financial proof than applying for a non-o visa at a embassy or consulate to apply for a one year extension.

Most people getting the non-o visa are applying for multiple entry visa that is valid for one year and allow unlimited 90 day entries, They have to leave and re-enter the country every 90 days.

If I understand correctly:

 

1) You can apply for a non-o multiple entry at an embassy or consulate which reside OUT of the country. I had this visa many years ago when they were still giving them out to tourists (wrongly) at some consulates in the US. It requires less proof. Not sure what that means but I assume it's an easier process at the very least.

 

2) If (and only if) you qualify for the extension of stay (i.e. married, 400k in the bank etc...) then you can get the  non-o IN country and then convert that to an extension of stay, presumably once the process is confirmed or before the 3 month entry expires.

[jackdd]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes it is possible to apply for a 30 day extension? Or if you get married a 60 day extension.

The latest police order ( https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1177935-end-of-visa-amnesty-may-spell-uncertainty-for-some-expats-in-thailand/ ) says that tourists have to leave until 26th September, unless there is reasonable necessity or obstacle of the departure, so it could mean that getting a regular 30 or 60 day extension as a tourist could be denied by immigration, and they might only process extension requests for tourists for medical reasons or with a letter from the embassy.

 

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

The latest police order ( https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1177935-end-of-visa-amnesty-may-spell-uncertainty-for-some-expats-in-thailand/ ) says that tourists have to leave until 26th September, unless there is reasonable necessity or obstacle of the departure, so it could mean that getting a regular 30 or 60 day extension as a tourist could be denied by immigration, and they might only process extension requests for tourists for medical reasons or with a letter from the embassy.

That's exactly the problem.  Some idiot IOs interpret the earlier issued Infographic Announcement as the New Rules that supersede and eradicate regular Immigration procedures.

When you entered Thailand Visa Exempt or an a Tourist Visa and you did not yet use the 30-day extension of stay that VE or TR/TS entry entitled you to, there should be no reason when applying for it to deny it.  And there are several reports of people who did exactly that > successfully applying for their 30-day extension from a VE or TR/TS entry when already being on the Amnesty.  And then using that 30-day permission to stay as 'spring-board' to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa and subsequent extension of stay.

Same goes when you are married to a thai national or have thai dependant children, and you did not yet apply for the 60-day Extension of stay for reason of visiting your thai wife/children.  Many applicants have successfully applied for that 60-day extension they are entitled to, even while being on the Amnesty with an expired permission to stay.  And they can then use that 60-day extension to season the required financials and then apply for the 1-year extension of stay.

As this is Thailand there is no consistency in how IOs treat such application.  With the rogues ones flatly refusing (e.g. Nonthaburi) and the idiot ones applying it from date of expiry of your permission to stay, making the application useless (e.g. SriRacha).  But the majority of IOs will simply follow the Business-as-usual procedures (as they should) and will accept such application and have it start from date of application.  There are even reports of IOs that let such appliction start from 27 September (they are also mis-interpreting the Announcement, but in this case to the advantage of the applicants). 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

The latest police order ( https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1177935-end-of-visa-amnesty-may-spell-uncertainty-for-some-expats-in-thailand/ ) says that tourists have to leave until 26th September, unless there is reasonable necessity or obstacle of the departure, so it could mean that getting a regular 30 or 60 day extension as a tourist could be denied by immigration, and they might only process extension requests for tourists for medical reasons or with a letter from the embassy.

 

I think a lot will depend upon the immigration office doing the application. 

Looking at 2 (1) it could depend on the person reading it since it mentions police order 327/2557 and the the clauses for 2 extension as an option it appears. If a person could qualify under a different clause of the police order then they should do it.

[jackdd]

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Some idiot IOs interpret the earlier issued Infographic Announcement as the New Rules that supersede and eradicate regular Immigration procedures.

The infographics are based on the police order to which i posted the link, issued by the chief of immigration police.

[Peter Denis]

58 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The infographics are based on the police order to which i posted the link, issued by the chief of immigration police.

That doesn't change anything to the validity of my post #13.

As mentioned > Some idiot IOs interpret the earlier issued Infographic Announcement as the New Rules that supersede and eradicate regular Immigration procedures.

[NorthernRyland]

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

That's exactly the problem.  Some idiot IOs interpret the earlier issued Infographic Announcement as the New Rules that supersede and eradicate regular Immigration procedures.

What I notice about this is these IO's are biased in the direction of no extension. I just don't understand why now is the time to be stingy. No one expected this and we're making the best of it. It's kind of like firing a person on Christmas.

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

That doesn't change anything to the validity of my post #13.

As mentioned > Some idiot IOs interpret the earlier issued Infographic Announcement as the New Rules that supersede and eradicate regular Immigration procedures.

This is the time to kick us when we're down. Another 30 days! Now that's a bridge too far.

[audaciousnomad]

29 minutes ago, genericptr said:

What I notice about this is these IO's are biased in the direction of no extension. I just don't understand why now is the time to be stingy. No one expected this and we're making the best of it. It's kind of like firing a person on Christmas.

Stinginess is not the motivation. A stingy person has a lot and won't share it with you. The motivation is greediness. A greedy person(s) wants to take more from you. By making it practically impossible to extend, they corral you into options which require an expensive 'fixer', to the tune of 35K or more. 50% or more of that does not even end up compensating the agent. You can guess who it ends up going to. ????

[Jackson B]

I was in CW on Friday and asked the same question. You can: (a) apply for an extension from Sept 26 for an additional 30 days; or (b) apply to switch visa category. If (b), then you need to do it well before Sept 26, and cannot switch after that date. If (a) you need a supporting letter from your embassy.

Different classes of visa have different requirements, so check carefully. Best to go in asap and ask questions. E.g., retirement requires 800k in the bank, and being over 50. Marriage requires 400k. ED requires enrolled in a university course. The requirements when applying in-country are different from those if applying when abroad at a Thai embassy/consulate. Some things are easier (e.g. no travel insurance) and others are more restrictive. Check with counter J at CW.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

That doesn't change anything to the validity of my post #13.

As mentioned > Some idiot IOs interpret the earlier issued Infographic Announcement as the New Rules that supersede and eradicate regular Immigration procedures.

According to the wording of the police order, the immigration chief acted as "director general", and declared that tourists have to leave until 26th September (extensions for them are only possible for special cases).

Because this order is newer than previous orders regarding extensions issued by a "director general", it obviously supersedes them.

So if an IO does interpret it in this way, then imho the IO is correct.

[Peter Denis]

9 hours ago, jackdd said:

According to the wording of the police order, the immigration chief acted as "director general", and declared that tourists have to leave until 26th September (extensions for them are only possible for special cases).

Because this order is newer than previous orders regarding extensions issued by a "director general", it obviously supersedes them.

So if an IO does interpret it in this way, then imho the IO is correct.

Tourists ONLY will have to leave when they cannot meet the requirements for a legit extension of stay.  And they have 3 options:

1 - If they did not yet use up the 30-day extension of stay their Tourist Entry entitled them to, they can still apply for that extension;

2 - If they are married to a thai national or have thai dependant children, they can apply for a 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting their thai wife/dependant children;

3 - If they meet the requirements they can apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa and subsequent 1-year extension of stay.  Such application needs to be done 15 days (some IOs require 23 days) before the permission to stay on which they are currently residing in Thailand expires.

 

These 3 options are the 'regular' Business-as-usual procedures for those that enter Visa Exempt or on a Tourist Visa and wish to stay in Thailand.  Note that  these legit options are referred to in clause 2 of the PoliceOrder you mentioned as 'providing proper reason' for their application.

If they do not wish to stay in Thailand but cannot leave (e.g. their home-country still locked-down or medical reasons) they can apply for the Embassy statement and that will provide them with the means to apply for an extension of stay until they are able to leave.

 

Yes, I do know that some IOs (I labelled them 'idiot' because I am fed up with them) interpret the InfoGraphic announcement (and the new PoliceOrder) as being their ONLY option, and refuse to handle their legit applications for an extension of stay.

And there are confirmed cases of non-idiot IOs that did correctly apply the business-as-usual procedures and where tourists were able to successfully get the extension they are entitled to.

The regular IO rules/regulations and procedures have NOT been superseded by the Amnesty.  There are only IOs making it difficult or impossible because they incorrectly make a distinction between what they call a 'valid' permission to stay and the extended permission to stay due to the Amnesty.

 

[ThailandRyan]

You may want to check with the US Embassy here in Bangkok regarding the paperwork you need to get married.  They are only taking emergency appointments for in person visits, as well as notarization of certain documents.  They are not issuing extension letters for those on a Visa needing to extend their VOA or for any others.  I tried to get an appointment to certify my passport but they indicated it was not a immediate need as I could go and obtain a certificate of residence from Immigration, which I applied for yesterday at the Muang Thong Thani location.  There are 2 locations at Muang Thong Thani, one building is set up for just extensions of the visa, 30 day or 60 days as Peter Dennis indicated, and the other building is set up for those needing 90 day reports, Submission of the TM-30, or in my case the requested Certificate of residence which will take them 2 weeks to complete and mail to you.  My needs of a certificate of residence were not for what the OPS needs.  However, its in the same location for those needing the extensions of 30 or 60 days. Not sure if applying for the extension to get an extension of stay based on your visa needs to be done at that location for those in Bangkok or if for those they need to go to Chaeng Wattana.

[jackdd]

21 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Tourists ONLY will have to leave when they cannot meet the requirements for a legit extension of stay.  And they have 3 options:

1 - If they did not yet use up the 30-day extension of stay their Tourist Entry entitled them to, they can still apply for that extension;

2 - If they are married to a thai national or have thai dependant children, they can apply for a 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting their thai wife/dependant children;

3 - If they meet the requirements they can apply for a 1-year extension of stay.  Such application needs to be done 15 days (some IOs require 23 days) before the permission to stay on which they are currently residing in Thailand expires.

That's not what the latest order by the immigration chief says. According to this order options 1 and 2 do no longer exist, an extension for tourists is only possible out of necessity for people who can't leave. I expect to see quite a few people here on Thaivisa struggling at the end of September (if the "amnesty" isn't extended), who planned to use such an extension and didn't prepare to leave so soon. Of course it may vary from office to office, as always, but the majority will probably follow the order.

I guess by 3 you mean the conversion to a non-immigrant visa and the successive extension. Yes, that's still possible.

 

[Peter Denis]

19 minutes ago, jackdd said:

That's not what the latest order by the immigration chief says. According to this order options 1 and 2 do no longer exist, an extension is only possible out of necessity for people who can't leave.

I guess by 3 you mean the conversion to a non-immigrant visa and the successive extension. Yes, that's still possible.

That's not how I read it.

And it flies in the face of those on a Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa that successfully applied for a 30-day extension or a 60-day extension, as prelude to their application for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa (and subsequent 1-year extension of stay application).  They had to revert to that intermediate step at those IOs that required a 'valid' permission to stay to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa (and did not accept an application from an Amnesty extended permission to stay).

 

The Police Order legalese and the Infographic Announcement did put many IOs on the wrong foot.

The 2 main misunderstandings being:

1 - The misconception that an Amnesty extended permission to stay, is somehow different from a non-expired permission to stay and that some applications can only be accepted when under a 'valid' permission to stay;

2 - The misconception that the Amnesty related IO announcements supersede the regular IO rules/ regulations and procedures.

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, jackdd said:

According to the wording of the police order, the immigration chief acted as "director general", and declared that tourists have to leave until 26th September (extensions for them are only possible for special cases).

Because this order is newer than previous orders regarding extensions issued by a "director general", it obviously supersedes them.

The head of immigration cannot override a ministerial notification issued by the Interior Ministry and signed by off the minister and PM.

I consider the the notification done by immigration more of a procedure than anything else.

 

[ThailandRyan]

Sorry to tell you jackdd, but your wrong in your view as to how Peter has laid it all out. I was just at immigration yesterday and listened as another US expat asked the questions and everything he was told was the same as Peter listed. Those are the options available. However. If you have already used up those 30 day or 60 day extensions as a true tourist and do not have the means to convert then of course you must leave.

[Peter Denis]

8 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Sorry to tell you jackdd, but your wrong in your view as to how Peter has laid it all out. I was just at immigration yesterday and listened as another US expat asked the questions and everything he was told was the same as Peter listed. Those are the options available. However. If you have already used up those 30 day or 60 day extensions as a true tourist and do not have the means to convert then of course you must leave.

Hi ThailandRyan > What was the IO that correctly interpreted the rules/regulations?

Unfortunately, there are many IOs that are totally confused...

So glad to hear that there is also a beacon of sanity somewhere.

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, Advocate said:

Don't get married just to acquire a visa. You may regret it when you discover that divorce is difficult in Thailand if one party opposes the divorce.

It is not necessary for him to get married to his thai girlfriend in order to stay long-term in Thailand.

Normally he should be able to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement at his local IO.  This has to be done when he still has at least 15 days (some IOs require 23 days) left on his permission to stay.

However, many IOs will not accept such application because they - incorrectly - consider his Amnesty extended permission to stay as not 'valid' to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa.

But even if his local IO subscribes to that incorrect view, the still has a 'life line', because he didn't yet use up the 30-day extension of stay his original METV entry entitled him to.

So what he needs to do is apply for the 30-day extension of stay at his local IO and from the 'valid' permission that 30-day extension of stay provides, then apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa for reason of retirement.  As mentioned higher that application for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa has to be done within 15 (or 23) days of receiving his 30-day permission to stay.  He would also need to meet the financial requirements for that 90-day Non Imm O Visa, on the day of application.

There are at least 2 confirmed cases from applicants on an expired Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa entry, that successfully did this so it is not a 'hypothetical' option.

> If OP needs the exact requirements and options for such application, he can simply PM me and I will send over the requirements and options (explained in understandable terms) as I compiled a Guideline Document to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa and subsequent extension.

[ThailandRyan]

55 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi ThailandRyan > What was the IO that correctly interpreted the rules/regulations?

Unfortunately, there are many IOs that are totally confused...

So glad to hear that there is also a beacon of sanity somewhere.

It was one of the IO's sitting at a desk next to where I was.  I was waiting for my IO to get back from taking care of my paperwork with someone who was doing the cashiering when I heard him ask the IO he was dealing with.  I listened in without looking over to the next desk.  He was there in order to get a certificate of residence as well.  I spoke to him afterward as he has a ME "O" Visa, and has a job back in the States so his past practice has normally been to go back and forth and now since he does not yet have the 400,000 baht in the bank here, and because of Covid he has been able to work remotely.  He is trying to do what's necessary to just do an extension of stay based on Marriage, but needed to now the options available to him as he has not used any visa extensions yet do to the amnesty.  He is kind of stuck as he used the O ME Visa because he always left every 90 days and then returned 90 days later, spending 6 months a year here at their house.