Honda Cbr150

[T_Dog]

Anyone know of a dealer for Michelon Sirac tires in Thailand? Looks like the 110/70 (rear) would fit the OLD CBR-150. After having an IRC front tire fail on me, I can't go down the road with IRCs on.

Edit: Although that size is on the USA brochure, it's a "no go" in Thailand. Here are the Thai sizes available:

http://motorcycle.michelin.asia/twproduct/findProduct/moreProduct/221

Edited June 21, 2011 by T_Dog

[13budgies]

Anyone know of a dealer for Michelon Sirac tires in Thailand? Looks like the 110/70 (rear) would fit the OLD CBR-150. After having an IRC front tire fail on me, I can't go down the road with IRCs on.

Edit: Although that size is on the USA brochure, it's a "no go" in Thailand. Here are the Thai sizes available:

http://motorcycle.mi...moreProduct/221

I've got Pilot Sporties on my '07 150 (90/80 front, 110/80 rear) and I can thoroughly recommend them. You can also get 80/90 front, I decided to go one size wider front and back to keep the balance. The 110/80 is listed in the front tyres but it's ok for either, two rotation arrows---one way for front, opposite way for back.

[kermitzkitchen]

Put a DBS pipe on my cbr its as loud as hell so its days are numbered but theres a noticeable increase in performance mainly how smooth it runs with the new pipe and there is a tiny increase in acceleration. The guy at my local shop had a spare silencer from an endurance exhaust that was fitted to a KSR so we played around to get that on and while it made it just that bit quieter the heads of the BiB are still turning every time i go past...you'll notice on the exhaust we marked out where it says racing exhaust in thai, its worth a try...if anyone else has found an exhaust system for the cbr that increases performance but doesnt sound like its waking the dead let me know

Edited June 22, 2011 by kermitzkitchen

[hehehoho]

Interesting. Thanks for the heads up. The carbon fibre looks great with the black model.

Saw a motosai taxi guy coming at me with the new red model, he had the front slightly lowered and had gotten rid of the windscreen, looked kick ass.

[KRS1]

This one looks pretty mean

[KRS1]

Put a DBS pipe on my cbr its as loud as hell so its days are numbered but theres a noticeable increase in performance mainly how smooth it runs with the new pipe and there is a tiny increase in acceleration. The guy at my local shop had a spare silencer from an endurance exhaust that was fitted to a KSR so we played around to get that on and while it made it just that bit quieter the heads of the BiB are still turning every time i go past...you'll notice on the exhaust we marked out where it says racing exhaust in thai, its worth a try...if anyone else has found an exhaust system for the cbr that increases performance but doesnt sound like its waking the dead let me know

Be careful if you stick the DB killer in there, the resin will soften from pent up heat.

[hehehoho]

The funny thing is that the 150 pipe actually looks pretty good. Perhaps just needs a carbon fibre shield. If the sound needs a bit of grunt, take off the access cover to the airfilter, if it's the same as the 250 it's just under the seat. 2 screws and it's off, will probably help it breath better too.

[KRS1]

The problem with removing the air filter is you'll lose forward off throttle momentum. - you can't coast as far in gear.

[kermitzkitchen]

Thanks for the advice KSR1 ill take note of that

@hehehoho i did read that on the 250 forum so i took the seat off but it wasnt there its must be under the tank. ive got a new air filter im gona put in this week anyway so while im at it ill take off the access cover as well as put the old pipe back on and see if its got a better sound to it

[13budgies]

The problem with removing the air filter is you'll lose forward off throttle momentum. - you can't coast as far in gear.

Please enlighten us as to why this would happen, and if it did , why it would be a problem.

[KRS1]

oops i meant take off the air cleaner cover.

[hehehoho]

More/too much air = increased engine breaking... I think.

[dave_boo]

More/too much air = increased engine breaking... I think.

Actually extra air decreases engine braking in that the engine is not 'sucking' for air....so actually KSR1 is wrong, but just not for the reason you thought.

[hehehoho]

Sorry, I got confudled.

[KRS1]

More/too much air = increased engine breaking... I think.

Actually extra air decreases engine braking in that the engine is not 'sucking' for air....so actually KSR1 is wrong, but just not for the reason you thought.

Actually Dave, no I am not wrong and I am talking about the cbr 150 not other bikes.

So if you haven't actually taken off the air cleaner cover don't make any guesses...ok?....i've drilled holes, taken off, done whatever ghetto airbox mods are mentioned out there, and nothing ever performed as well as the stock airbox configuration, while utilizing the main portion of the airbox itself.

I'm betting you've never tried it.

[dave_boo]

More/too much air = increased engine breaking... I think.

Actually extra air decreases engine braking in that the engine is not 'sucking' for air....so actually KSR1 is wrong, but just not for the reason you thought.

Actually Dave, no I am not wrong and I am talking about the cbr 150 not other bikes.

So if you haven't actually taken off the air cleaner cover don't make any guesses...ok?....i've drilled holes, taken off, done whatever ghetto airbox mods are mentioned out there, and nothing ever performed as well as the stock airbox configuration, while utilizing the main portion of the airbox itself.

I'm betting you've never tried it.

I'm going to work backwards through your post.

For the arrogance you display on this forum, your last comments does not surprise me. Your assertions flung far and wide with nothing to back them up reek of someone who would fail a Turing test and is desperately trying to vindicate themself. To attempt to be the sole arbitrator of truth, and disallow the fact that anyone who would presume to contradict you has any knowledge, is truly astounding.

The presumption that I would not understand that an airbox is a Helmholtz resonator, and have had no dealings with them, is equally befuddling.

None of this changes the fact that the poster I was replying to was wrong; more airflow causes less engine braking because increased air acts like a spring and decreases engine braking since there is no inetia converted into suction.

Nor does it change the fact that you are wrong also about off throttle reaction of engines. There is an order of magnitude in the difference between on throttle and off throttle air flow. So while your 'ghetto airbox mods' undoubtably affected overall rideability of your vehicles, it has little to do with the engine braking. If you are as smart as you apparently wish to project yourself as, you would be able to wrap your mind around the fact that a 28 mm throttle body would have an approximately 461.8 mm³ opening at 75% opening and 30.8 mm² opening at 15% opening (off throttle). Going off throttle, i.e. reducing the available opening by some 93,3%, will result in those surges that were coming in piling up and causing standing waves. Eventually those standing waves will be sorted out, however until they are the effect will choke off flow into the engine and assist with engine braking. Removing the airbox, or modifying it, removes those standing waves from the equation and allows the flow to normalise much more quickly and reduces engine braking. Vis à vis, you were incorrect in your statement that removing the airbox will cause a loss "forward off throttle momentum. - you can't coast as far in gear."

[13budgies]

The problem with removing the air filter is you'll lose forward off throttle momentum. - you can't coast as far in gear.

Please enlighten us as to why this would happen, and if it did , why it would be a problem.

I ask again.

a) Why would removing the airbox cover (or air filter for that matter) lose "forward off throttle momentum"?

If removing the airbox cover did indeed cause a loss of said momentum, in what way would this be a problem? It might even be a benefit since when closing the throttle one is usually desirous of losing speed, rather than coasting, in gear, the greatest possible distance.

Edited June 26, 2011 by 13budgies

[13budgies]

The problem with removing the air filter is you'll lose forward off throttle momentum. - you can't coast as far in gear.

Please enlighten us as to why this would happen, and if it did , why it would be a problem.

I ask again.

a) Why would removing the airbox cover (or air filter for that matter) lose "forward off throttle momentum"?

If removing the airbox cover did indeed cause a loss of said momentum, in what way would this be a problem? It might even be a benefit since when closing the throttle one is usually desirous of losing speed, rather than coasting, in gear, the greatest possible distance.

The smillie above was supposed to be . The emoticon crept in and I couldn't edit it out (this one was intended)!

Edited June 26, 2011 by 13budgies

[KRS1]

More/too much air = increased engine breaking... I think.

Actually extra air decreases engine braking in that the engine is not 'sucking' for air....so actually KSR1 is wrong, but just not for the reason you thought.

Actually Dave, no I am not wrong and I am talking about the cbr 150 not other bikes.

So if you haven't actually taken off the air cleaner cover don't make any guesses...ok?....i've drilled holes, taken off, done whatever ghetto airbox mods are mentioned out there, and nothing ever performed as well as the stock airbox configuration, while utilizing the main portion of the airbox itself.

I'm betting you've never tried it.

I'm going to work backwards through your post.

For the arrogance you display on this forum, your last comments does not surprise me. Your assertions flung far and wide with nothing to back them up reek of someone who would fail a Turing test and is desperately trying to vindicate themself. To attempt to be the sole arbitrator of truth, and disallow the fact that anyone who would presume to contradict you has any knowledge, is truly astounding.

The presumption that I would not understand that an airbox is a Helmholtz resonator, and have had no dealings with them, is equally befuddling.

None of this changes the fact that the poster I was replying to was wrong; more airflow causes less engine braking because increased air acts like a spring and decreases engine braking since there is no inetia converted into suction.

Nor does it change the fact that you are wrong also about off throttle reaction of engines. There is an order of magnitude in the difference between on throttle and off throttle air flow. So while your 'ghetto airbox mods' undoubtably affected overall rideability of your vehicles, it has little to do with the engine braking. If you are as smart as you apparently wish to project yourself as, you would be able to wrap your mind around the fact that a 28 mm throttle body would have an approximately 461.8 mm³ opening at 75% opening and 30.8 mm² opening at 15% opening (off throttle). Going off throttle, i.e. reducing the available opening by some 93,3%, will result in those surges that were coming in piling up and causing standing waves. Eventually those standing waves will be sorted out, however until they are the effect will choke off flow into the engine and assist with engine braking. Removing the airbox, or modifying it, removes those standing waves from the equation and allows the flow to normalise much more quickly and reduces engine braking. Vis à vis, you were incorrect in your statement that removing the airbox will cause a loss "forward off throttle momentum. - you can't coast as far in gear."

Hey smart guy, why don't you read my post again. i never said anything about engine braking, nor did i make any mention that you have no knowledge of hemholtz resonators.

So as smart as you appear to be - go learn how to read first.

All anyone has to do is simply remove the airbox cover and ride it and they will see the results quite clearly. Simple A/B testing without the math.

[KRS1]

I tried it and that's what happened. Anyone can try it and see what happens. - on a cbr 150.

Remember, I didn't make any claims of power increase or decrease. Only on the weird coasting properties while in gear.

[dave_boo]

Hey smart guy, why don't you read my post again. i never said anything about engine braking, nor did i make any mention that you have no knowledge of hemholtz resonators.

So as smart as you appear to be - go learn how to read first.

All anyone has to do is simply remove the airbox cover and ride it and they will see the results quite clearly. Simple A/B testing without the math.

So I guess this exchange meant nothing?

More/too much air = increased engine breaking... I think.

Actually extra air decreases engine braking in that the engine is not 'sucking' for air....so actually KSR1 is wrong, but just not for the reason you thought.

Actually Dave, no I am not wrong and I am talking about the cbr 150 not other bikes.

So if you haven't actually taken off the air cleaner cover don't make any guesses...ok?....i've drilled holes, taken off, done whatever ghetto airbox mods are mentioned out there, and nothing ever performed as well as the stock airbox configuration, while utilizing the main portion of the airbox itself.

I'm betting you've never tried it.

Both of the quotes (hehehoho and mine) you responded to mentioned engine braking. You stated that you "am not wrong" and then went and described how you ruin the Helmholtz resonance effect (regardless of whether or not you actually knew the technical term for it that is what you did); even to the point that you hazard a guess that I've had no experience with it. Hence my response.

If you're going to make claims, kindly back them up with some empirical evidence.

[KRS1]

What is your problem, NO WHERE did i mention anything about engine braking or ruining the helmhotz effect.

Why are you making things up?

I said you've probably never taken off the airbox cover from a cbr 150, and that's it, and that's because if you have, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

So have you or have you not taken the airbox cover off of a cbr 150? yes or no?

[dave_boo]

What is your problem, NO WHERE did i mention anything about engine braking or ruining the helmhotz effect.

Why are you making things up?

I said you've probably never taken off the airbox cover from a cbr 150, and that's it, and that's because if you have, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

So have you or have you not taken the airbox cover off of a cbr 150? yes or no?

You know what, you are correct, you didn't actually mention 'engine braking' nor 'Helmotlz resonance" anywhere in your earlier post. For me to assume that you would have a basic understanding of that knowledge was pure naïveté on my part. I do humbly apologise for attempting to insinuate that your retort to our discussion on engine braking was in fact an informed response attempting to bolster your argument as I do also extend my condolences for ignoring the self-evident fact that simple physics eludes you. To your questions, which I have been forthcoming in answering in direct contrast to questions posed to you, no I have not removed a CBR 150's airbox and performed the test you speak of. That is not saying that I have never removed or modified airboxes for vehicles to include the original CBR 150 model. If there is some extra special sauce that Honda's baked in that contradicts both the physics and other's experiences, I'm sure the forum would be interested in what you have to say about that...or perhaps not.

Having said that I shall recuse myself from what appears to be an attempt by you to drag a discussion down and refrain in the future from interacting directly with you.

[KRS1]

Typical

[13budgies]

Typical

Typical indeed ----- typical KRS1 bullsh1t.

Edited June 27, 2011 by 13budgies

[KRS1]

Are you dave__boo's lover?

edit: btw have you tried to remove the aircleaner cover? No, ok then <deleted>...

Edited June 27, 2011 by KRS1

[KRS1]

I'm not going to argue with ducati:

Source: http://www.ducati.ms/forums/80-hall-wisdom/18854-air-filters-stock-vs-aftermarket-airbox-resonance.html From http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/tech/airfilter.php

"Shazaam's Tech Library - Air Filters

A useful technical article from guest contributor Larry Kelly of San Diego CA (aka Shazaam!).

Superbike Air Intake System

The topic of modifying the air intake system has been discussed as extensively as what fuel octane to use and the what's the best oil. Here's the basic issue so you can decide whether to throw out the stock air filters.

Your engine is prevented from making more horsepower mainly because of the difficulty of getting enough air. You can easily add more fuel if you can get more air through the engine. Superchargers and turbochargers are the common way of doing this in automobiles. Four valves per cylinder are often used in modern motorcycles.

The governing flow restriction is the throttle body diameter, the size of the intake and exhaust valves, and camshaft lift and duration so if any upstream flow area is smaller, it'll just see a higher air velocity as air passes through it. If you introduce a flow obstruction such as an air filter into the upstream flow you'll get a reduction in air pressure at the throttle body and flow into the engine will be reduced. A dirty air filter will be the biggest flow obstruction.

There has been much discussion about opening up the front air intake openings in the fairing and to remove the decorative grill in order to reduce flow restriction. I've done it, and it's probably a good idea to open up this space, but the fact is that air velocity will simply increase to supply enough air if you leave it alone.

Similarly, there have been a lot of questions regarding removal of the rubber blocks in the air runners of later year bikes. Again, these blocks incorporate a nice smooth venturi that simply accelerate the flow through them on the way to the airbox but are designed to restrict airflow very little. They really don't hurt anything if you leave them in. Their purpose is to reflect sound waves so as to reduce induction noise to achieve overall legal limits.

Before we get to the question of air filters, we first need to consider the air intake system design. One reason for using an airbox and intake runners is to direct cool air to the engine. This design approach also results in a small pressurization of intake air that increases with bike speed. It also reduces the volume of the intake flow noise.

But there's also a performance benefit because the airbox is a Helmholtz resonator. That is, a resonance effect occurs when you connect an enclosed volume of a suitable size and shape to an engine’s intake stacks causing the air inside to resonate at a frequency that results in pressure peaks coincident with the cylinders’ intake stroke frequency (at a particular RPM.) This can theoretically increase power by 10–15% within a particular RPM range by boosting airflow into the engine. Airboxes need to be well-sealed and stiff in construction to maintain these resonance characteristics. A simple way to illustrate this is to blow across the mouth of an empty bottle. The sound you hear is the natural frequency of a Hemholtz resonator.

If you change the shape and free air volume of the airbox, you change its resonance frequencies, and the engine RPM at which it responds to enhance filling the engine with air. For example, a larger Corse airbox is tuned for optimum filling at a higher RPM where race bikes normally operate, but where street bikes usually do not. If you fill the example empty bottle with filter foam (mostly air) and blow across it, you'll get no resonant frequency sound at all.

An airbox also functions as a plenum, a space where the air velocity is reduced so as to eliminate turbulent airflow prior to being smoothed and accelerated down the velocity stacks. In fact, if you just place your finger anywhere near the edge of the top of the velocity stack you'll see dyno power dropping off due to the disturbed air flow pattern.

The air in the plenum is also considered "free air." That is, it’s already passed through the air runners and filters so it can be supplied to the engine without any flow restriction. If you use the auto industry's standard calculation of air required for "nil" vacuum restriction within the air intake system, you should have at least 130% of engine capacity in available air volume between the throttle butterflies and the air filter element.

All of this tells us why Ducati places the superbike air filters in the air runners. This location avoids lowering the frequency of the airbox (by not filling up a large portion of the airbox volume with a bulky foam filter) and prevents disturbing the airflow near the velocity stacks as well as improving throttle response by maintaining a large free air volume between the filter location and the velocity stacks.

This is also why Ducati didn't use over-the-velocity stack bellmouth style filter. This location doesn't meet that 1,300 cc. plenum volume needed to avoid degrading throttle response (which a dyno doesn't measure BTW.) Dyno tests say you get somewhat less peak horsepower with these filter types but on a stock bike they don't seem to make a lot of difference.

Another point to consider is that unless you have customized a FIM chip on a dyno in an attempt to match the flow and resonance characteristics of an over-the-bellmouth filter you'll have to use a chip that was developed using the stock filters. (I've read more recently that JHP in the UK sells chips that are dyno tuned using under-tank filters. http://www.jhpducati.com)

The computerized engine management system uses a fixed fuel injection metering scheme controlled by the EPROM chip that was developed in combination with the stock intake/exhaust configuration. Unless you install a programmable FIM chip and sort out any changes on a dyno with a knowledgeable operator/programmer you won’t get optimum (low-end?, midrange?, high-end?, power?, throttle response?) performance.

Ducati engines are the result of countless hours of development work on a dyno. They are designed as a unit with airflow and exhaust flow optimized together for each engine configuration. When you change things like intake and exhaust configurations it’s a hit-and-miss proposition. Many times you make improvements in one RPM range and performance at other speeds decreases. Without dyno before-and-after checks, multiple changes can produce confusing results.

Also, seat-of-the-pants tuning can be misleading. If a change, say, reduces mid-range performance at the expense of high end power the engine feels peakier and this feels like an improvement. But is it? Strange dips in dyno horsepower and torque curves can and do occur at speeds where you spend most of your time riding.

Regarding the large foam in-airbox filters, the people at Sigma Performance (www.sigmaperformance.com) distributors of arguably the best aftermarket chips for superbikes recommended using the stock filters. They state that all FIM chips are made and initially tuned with the stock filters, and they highly recommend staying with the stock units.

This is because they say they have found that a new CLEAN stock air filter gives 2–5% better performance than any of the aftermarket filters and they have only seen reductions in performance when using over-the-bellmouth filters. As a type, they change the air box resonance and require about a 3% leaner mixture to get back some of the power. They say that these filters have flow characteristics that aren't well matched to the fixed metering of the stock fuel injection system.

So it seems that the main advantage of an over-the-bellmouth filter location in the airbox is that it allows only clean air into the motor. The fuel tank-to-airbox seal is notoriously poor on superbikes, and will often allow dirt into the airbox bypassing the stock filters.

So, if you see bits of sand and grit and dead bug parts in the bottom of the airbox one solution is to replace the stock tank-to-airbox seal with thicker stick-on foam tape, or use the updated seal from the 1999 and-up bikes.

Also, access to the stock filters requires some effort so if you don’t clean them regularly an aftermarket filter may be a better choice for you.

Further, over-the-bellmouth designs, however, will reduce the chance of engine damage in case of a crash. IF you crash, AND the gas tank becomes dislodged from the air box breaking the seal, AND debris gets into the air box these designs can prevent engine ingestion and further damage caused by the crash. Your insurance company will thank you.

So even though the stock filter location is better, that's not to say that the stock filter is best - they do have significant drawbacks themselves. They use single density foam that has a uniform pore size and they are run dry (i.e. without applying a dirt retention oil.) So, it flows air well, but isn't a very efficient filter and a lot of smaller dirt particles pass through to the engine. This accounts for most of the dirt coating the inside of your airbox.

So, the stock filters won't stop any dirt particle smaller than the foam cell size unless they are run with dirt retention oil. The stock system is actually a two-stage filter if you consider the debris/insect-filtering effect of the air duct inlet screens.

As a type, foam air filters are a reasonable balance between good airflow, dust holding capacity, and filtration efficiency for small particles. The way that better foam air filters work is simple. Open cell polyurethane foam is wetted with specially developed sticky oil. The sticky oil is suspended in the path of the dirty air on the strands of the web-like cell structure of the foam. This makes it difficult for small dirt particles to pass through the depth of the filter without sticking to the strands. Larger particles are trapped if they are bigger than the distance between the cell strands themselves.

As the outer wetted strands become loaded with dirt particles and no longer sticky, the wetted strands downstream continue trapping dirt, until the entire foam thickness is utilized. Also, as dirt particles build up on the strands the space between strands decreases, further increasing the filter efficiency by trapping the smaller dirt particles that initially could pass between the strands in a clean filter. This approach prevents the surface loading and air restriction that single-stage paper filter elements experience and consequently extends the service life of the air filter element. Finally, when the filter is sufficiently dirty to stop trapping small particles and clogging reduces airflow, it can conveniently be washed, re-oiled, and re-used. When oiling a foam air filter, use as little as possible, but do get adequate coverage.

Some manufacturers use foam as part of a multi-stage filter design. Stage 1 might be a screen or a coarse foam layer that stops larger debris from clogging up the stage 2 filter layer. Stage 2 would be a medium or fine pore foam to collect smaller particle that the stage 1 layer missed. Stage 3 could be a finer foam or cotton gauze layer that catches particles down to micron sizes. One or more of the Stages can be oiled to increase filter efficiency, and the whole thing, if made sturdy enough, can be cleaned, re-oiled and reused.

The only filter (other than the OEM) that won't reduce airbox volume is made by Sportsbike (Australia). It mounts at the air tube entrance to the air box. It uses two pre-oiled, clean and reuse, single density foam filters. Its main drawback is that has a smaller cross-sectional area (about 7 sq. in. vs. stock 32 sq. in.) and less dirt holding capacity than any other design (except for the tiny MadDuc "things" that mount on the velocity stacks.)

I think that it's important to be skeptical of the marketing hype by aftermarket filter manufacturers and their failure to provide ANY comparative dyno results that demonstrate that their product provides some performance advantage, or at least no loss in performance.

Modern high performance motorcycle engines are the result of countless hours of development work on a dyno by the manufacturer. They are designed as a unit with airflow and exhaust flow optimized together for each engine configuration. Purposely (say to save costs) using an unnecessarily restrictive air filter in their design will decrease performance relative to their competitors and their marketing advantage.

So, where are the dyno charts from the manufacturers of the aftermarket air filters? If they really improve performance over stock filters across the RPM range then it’s really a marketing advantage to release their design development dyno charts. Without evidence to the contrary, think it’s safe to conclude that it is not to their advantage to release any dyno charts or comparisons with other vendors. The aftermarket air filter market for motorcycles seems to be built on hype by the manufacturers and by the profits to their sellers. They compete on hearsay and testimonies from “happy” customers or recommendations from their own vendors— not on proof of superior performance.

BCM: $50

That said, after seeing the dyno chart on the Pipercross UK web site for the MPX038 superbike filter and the web information about the filter's construction, I installed a pair in place of the stock filters. I believe that Pipercross's 2-stage foam filter is currently the BEST FILTER AVAILABLE FOR DUCATI SUPERBIKES when used with a dirt retention oil spray and cleaned regularly. (Just make sure that the filter's coarse foam layer points toward the air tube inlet, the fine foam layer towards the airbox.)

They are designed to replace the stock filter elements in the stock air intake ducts. If you have the larger aftermarket carbon fiber air ducts, they won't fit (unless they are the Ducati Performance carbon fiber ducts that use the stock filters). The filtering advantage they have over the stock filter elements is that they use two layers of foam having different pore sizes (one is finer than the stock foam elements), and they are designed to be oiled, cleaned and reused.

http://www.pipercross.com/

Available in the US from BCM (less expensive) and Motowheels

http://www.bcmducati.com

http://www.motowheels.com

Some Final Words on Air Filters and Performance

An air filter isn’t performance equipment - it’s protective equipment. Its function is to prevent dirt from entering the engine and damaging it. Dirt, by nature, is very abrasive and gets caught between parts that require a precision fit to function correctly.

An air filter that is selected for use on a race bike most often is not a good choice for use on a street bike. A race bike's function is to provide maximum performance and to finish (win) the race. Often the life of a factory racing team engine is practicing for, and finishing, one race. Then it's rebuilt to restore clearances by replacing any worn parts.

So, an air filter that is used on a race bike is selected using different priorities than one that is selected for use on a street bike. It primarily has to minimize any adverse effect on engine performance while still preventing the engine from ingesting dirt from a controlled racetrack environment. It has to capture and hold enough dirt without reducing intake airflow (clogging) to finish the race. It has to be accessible enough to be changed or cleaned quickly under racetrack conditions.

A street bike air filter, on the other hand, needs to function for thousands of miles in a variety of dusty conditions before cleaning or replacement. Consequently, it needs to hold a lot more dirt, and doesn't need to be nearly as accessible. Performance degradation is important but is still secondary to filter life.

The smaller the dirt particles captured by the filter, the better. Some designs and materials are better at this (filter efficiency) than others.

Whatever approach you or the filter manufacturer take, the underlying issue is that you need to CLEAN the filter before accumulated dirt reduces airflow sufficiently to reduce engine performance and economy.

Whew ... Hope this helps everyone by putting it all together in one place.

Short Answer

Filters are not performance equipment, they are protective equipment. You won’t find a filter that flows air better (and makes more power) than a clean stock filter. Unfortunately, the stock filter elements don’t seal very well to the air runner and don’t filter dirt from the air as well as aftermarket filters.

The best location for the filter is in the air runner, and best filter of this type is the Pipercross MPX038. The Pipercross filters are the same shape as the stock filters, but thicker. They even use the stock plastic frame to give rigidity. Thicker means they seal to the air runners better and hold more dirt. They also filter better since they use a coarse layer (similar to the stock unit in cell size) bonded to a smaller cell foam layer so they capture smaller dirt particles. They come supplied with filter oil. Most important, they don't mess-up your air box resonance.

Filters located in the air box take-up space which changes the resonance of the intake system at various engine speeds. Air box resonance helps to fill the cylinders with air, and it’s important to note that factory engine development work to smooth-out the power and torque curves is done using the stock filters. In particular, air box filters degrade throttle response, the ability to smoothly accept changes in throttle, by reducing the volume of “free” air located in the space between the filter element and the throttle plate. The volume of “free” air should be at least 1.5 liters for the best throttle response for liter displacement bikes.

Ask yourself, why do bikes like the 748R come with larger 14 liter air boxes instead of the stock 8 liters? This before-after dyno comparison of a 996 with a large volume EVR airbox shows why. Notice how it smooths-out the dip in mid-range torque. Air box resonance effects.

Another type of air box filter is installed over the throttle body velocity stack. Some owners choose these to protect the engine from any dirt ingestion in the event of a crash that dislodges the fuel tank, or from a poorly sealed air box.

Peak power is essentially the same for the different filter types - when clean. Dirt-holding capacity depends on a number of factors, so any filter needs to be cleaned regularly, some more often than others." __________________

President, DOC Ducati Desmo Clan Montréal

DOC of Montréal

[dave_boo]

Typical

Typical indeed ----- typical KRS1 bullsh1t.

You are tilting at windmills. There's certain people you just have to refrain from attempting to have civilised conversations with. Anyone that posts an article that restates what has been said, and attempts to use it to bolster their argument whilst disregarding it says NOTHING about the point they are trying to make is not, in fact, attempting to debate or, if the attempt is being made, are not equipped to have a discourse.

Also, seat-of-the-pants tuning can be misleading.

Another example I thought of to demonstrate that I am correct (even though it is much more pronounced) is a turbo. Actually the blow-off valve on the turbo. Both a turbo and an airbox work to increase power and obviously coming off throttle the blow-off valve needs to relieve pressure...in its case to prevent throttle body damage but a side effect is to reduce the waves I was discussing earlier.

[KRS1]

Typical

Typical indeed ----- typical KRS1 bullsh1t.

You are tilting at windmills. There's certain people you just have to refrain from attempting to have civilised conversations with. Anyone that posts an article that restates what has been said, and attempts to use it to bolster their argument whilst disregarding it says NOTHING about the point they are trying to make is not, in fact, attempting to debate or, if the attempt is being made, are not equipped to have a discourse.

Also, seat-of-the-pants tuning can be misleading.

Another example I thought of to demonstrate that I am correct (even though it is much more pronounced) is a turbo. Actually the blow-off valve on the turbo. Both a turbo and an airbox work to increase power and obviously coming off throttle the blow-off valve needs to relieve pressure...in its case to prevent throttle body damage but a side effect is to reduce the waves I was discussing earlier.

Keep lying and making things up dave, anyone that reads that article can see what the truth is.

[13budgies]

Are you dave__boo's lover?

edit: btw have you tried to remove the aircleaner cover? No, ok then <deleted>...

I have absolutely no intention of trying to justify myself to a thoroughly unpleasant individual such as you.

Just what is it you're trying to prove? Do you really expect the world to accept your unsubstantiated pronouncements as gospel truth? I seriously suspect that you have a problem.