Retirement visa and 30 days extension denied

[mikem20]

Hello. I've been following this forum for a while but never had a question or contribution until now.
I came in January on a 6 months ME visa, then did a border run in March which gave me an entry stamp that was valid to middle of May. Then the borders were closed and the visa amnesty was announced just before I should have left the country again or applied for a 30 days extension.
I became valid for retirement visa this year while staying here, the plan was always to go home and apply for retirement visa at the consulate there for a stay this upcoming winter. 
When Covid 19 hit I had no inclination to change my plans and decided to sit it out here while I legally could so, especially when it came clear that it wouldn't be possible to reenter Thailand once I left for a long time. I have a paid-for ticket home with Thai Airways if and when they start regular flights again. Plus buying a one way ticket(s) home would be expensive now, there are no direct flights to where I'm going so I don't know what delays and obstacles I'd meet when changing flights. And I would really like flying to resemble something like normalcy before I fly again, though I'm not so optimistic about that anymore.
After the amnesty to 26th September was announced I started to prepare to apply for a retirement visa here in Thailand, following advise from many topics here. I have a Consulate letter to certify sufficient income and original documents showing source of monthly pension certified by the consul, so shouldn't need to deposit any money in Thai bank. All other needed documents in order as far as I know.
So I went to Chonburi immigration office with an application, half expecting to get some extra demands. I have read here that some offices deny applications for change of visa now because the visas are expired, while others give visas in spite of the applicant being on amnesty, and if denied, people have applied for a regular 30 days extension and then applied for a change of visa. I hadn't seen anything about how my office handled it so I decided to go straight for the retirement visa but be prepared for apply for 30 days regular extension if that didn't work.
Was first stopped at the front desk when I showed my TM.86 by some guy standing besides it. Asked me if I had a letter from the bank. I said no I had a letter from embassy. He said no cannot and just waved me away. It wasn't until I pointed at the item on the immigration's own requirements list for changing visas and showed him the embassy letter that he grudgingly gave me a ticket for an IO, desk nr. 7 but inside an office. Got a hearing fairly quickly but she didn't want to look at any of my documents, only looked at the stamps in my passport and told me I was too late, I should have applied in April. She took long time to explain to me that I was on overstay and had to be gone on the 26th, I had to go abroad and get a new visa and come back when Thai government allowed. I could get 30 days more with a letter from Embassy if all airports were closed. Even took the requirements paper and highlighted for me the 15 days rule to make everything clear. Tried to ask about 30 days visa but wasn't listened to so just went when she was finished.
Went to the front desk again and showed them my TM.7 application. Got another ticket for the same group of desks. There a guy looked through my papers and asked me if I wanted a year visa. Yes I said but I got a no already so I need a 30 days extension. It got confusing from there on. I think he said I should go to another desk for that, so wonder if I was given a ticket for the wrong IOs group. Anyway he said they weren't giving 30 days visa extensions anymore because of amnesty! And regarding my letter from the Consulate I would need to take that to the Department of Consular Affairs in Bangkok to get it stamped there, before showing it at immigration. Gave me a paper with a map and address of this department and it's many divisions.
I was just about speechless now, never heard anything of the kind before. Decided it was better just leave now before I got argumentative.
Didn't get to ask about the stamp to 26th September that another thread is discussing if is real or not, I expect the answer would have been no.

 

So I was wondering if I could get past this denial of a 30 days regular extension, that I haven't used before, then try to apply for the retirement visa again.
1. Is there any use calling the immigration hotline and asking? I don't expect they take down complaints 555
2. Wonder if there's any use applying for 30 days extension in the Imm Chonburi app? Might I get a different response then, maybe from the correct desk?
3. Am I correct in that I can apply for a 30 days extension at any immigration office? Could I go to Bangkok immigration no questions asked? I see a new thread from a poster who says he was denied it there. But I cannot take my retirement visa application elsewhere in this short time?

 

Else there are only two expensive and unpleasant choices left.
Just wondering if anyone knows, does going through an agent for a retirement visa cost the same whether you have all the documentation to show you qualify or you don't qualify at all?

[Sambotte]

I am not qualified since i never used agent, but i have read it's more expensive (and maybe risky) if you do not meet the requirements.

In your case (you meet the requirements) i would look for agents if money is not an issue (20-30K i think for 3 month+1 year i think)... not too bad to avoid Immigration (i miss the good old time when they were so friendly... has totally changed).

[eppic]

FWIW, I was also told directly today at MTT (Bangkok) that automatic 30-day extension (in our case from visa exempt) is no longer possible even if has not been used. 

 

Must have a letter from embassy, and not sure even then that it's guaranteed.  Since our family has multiple nationalities (none of which are Thai) , it's likely impossible to get the required embassy letters anyway.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by eppic

[Peter Denis]

OP wrote > So I was wondering if I could get past this denial of a 30 days regular extension, that I haven't used before, then try to apply for the retirement visa again.

 

There is of course also the (temporary/administrative) relocation option.

For someone in your case, being on a Tourist Visa and wanting to apply for a retirement extension, relocating is super-easy (as you do not need to prove that you are living at that address with your thai wife/family, so a hotel-address is perfectly acceptable).

So it is just a matter of 'shopping around' for a more accommodating IO in another province.  And of course nothing will stop you from relocating back to Jomtien once you have the 'valid' permission to stay in your passport.

Attached a link to a post of somebody on a Tourist Visa enquiring today at Ubon Ratchathani for a regular 30-day extension which will be provided without any problems and will even start on 27 September.

> https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1180274-i-got-my-30-days-extension-denied-today/?do=findComment&comment=15770391

 

[GAZZPA]

I assume you must have some personal ties to family or something in Thailand? If not why bother, there are other options and other countries. Thailand is not what it once was and is not welcoming for foreigners. All they really want is your cash but not you, so if you have no ties find somewhere better to live. Many of my old friends have gone back to Europe, 1 I know has settled in Cambodia and he is very happy, he says it remind shim of how Thailand used to be. Good luck fella.

[Destiny1990]

2 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

I assume you must have some personal ties to family or something in Thailand? If not why bother, there are other options and other countries. Thailand is not what it once was and is not welcoming for foreigners. All they really want is your cash but not you, so if you have no ties find somewhere better to live. Many of my old friends have gone back to Europe, 1 I know has settled in Cambodia and he is very happy, he says it remind shim of how Thailand used to be. Good luck fella.

Well indeed if you visit these expat forums sites in Vietnam , Phillipines, Cambodia ext these expat there seem to be way less critical and frustrated about their situation in regard with their visa process and for being regarded merely as second class citizens. I wonder why on TFV the sentiment is so negative? Unhappy expats its Very bad publicity. Especially for newcomers deciding exploring an Asian country for to set bass guess where they will be going to?

[Sambotte]

Immigration was very nice before.

But since the last coup, it has totally changed.

And getting worse and worse.

[Kenchamp]

I know of two people who have similar circumstances to the OP that have recently being given retirement extensions at Jomtien. One used an agent and the other an accommodating IO. Costs were both around the 30k mark. No 800k, no nothing, 

[Bedfont]

Go and talk to an agent. It will cost nothing to talk to one. I can recommend Thai Visa Express in Pattaya.

Speak to English Paul. Their number is 038 420 313. They should be able to help you out.

[GAZZPA]

2 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Well indeed if you visit these expat forums sites in Vietnam , Phillipines, Cambodia ext these expat there seem to be way less critical and frustrated about their situation in regard with their visa process and for being regarded merely as second class citizens. I wonder why on TFV the sentiment is so negative? Unhappy expats its Very bad publicity. Especially for newcomers deciding exploring an Asian country for to set bass guess where they will be going to?

Well if you look up a restaurant review and it's consistently poor you don't go there do you.. So it makes sense if you see consistent bad reviews about Thailand surely you wouldn't be sticking your flag in Thai soil anytime soon. My advice is leave Thailand alone, it's just not worth it anymore, it was once but I got out, many others have got out, there are about 60% less expats then there were 8 to 10 years ago. Find somewhere else my friend. good luck.

 

[nemo38]

One of the guys in my building just got his retirement visa renewed (4th year). He paid 21,000 baht, which includes 6,000 mandatory insurance for the year.

He doesn't have the required income or the required deposit. But he does have the required 21,000... ????

 

I asked about getting the retirement visa. He said it would cost me the same but another 5,000 to open an account with Bangkok bank, which, he says is their fee. 

 

 

[tonray]

19 minutes ago, GAZZPA said:

Thailand surely you wouldn't be sticking your flag in Thai soil anytime soon

It's not sticking 'flags in soil' that keeps em coming back...

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, nemo38 said:

One of the guys in my building just got his retirement visa renewed (4th year). He paid 21,000 baht, which includes 6,000 mandatory insurance for the year.

He doesn't have the required income or the required deposit. But he does have the required 21,000... ????

 

I asked about getting the retirement visa. He said it would cost me the same but another 5,000 to open an account with Bangkok bank, which, he says is their fee. 

 

 

I've seen posts on other forums that say Meenerat (spelling?) on Soi Post Office charges 5,000 for assistance in opening an account but you used to be able to open one yourself with a minimum deposit of less than that at the Bangkok Branch on Beach Road... IIRC the only cost to you was 300 THB for the debit card.  

 

A guy I know used Key Visa https://www.keyvisathailand.com/ to get a Retirement Extension & it cost him 15,000 + an extra 2,500 for the Health Insurance (Only required if you're extending a Non-OA Visa)

 

NB If you're doing an in-country conversion to your first Retirement Visa (i.e. you entered Thailand on a Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa) then it will be more expensive as they need to get you the Non-O 1st then extend this (effectively you end up with a 3 month Visa & then a 12 month extension), obviously this is more expensive than just the extension, I have seen people report on the costs but can't recall how much it was, again if you ask Key Visa they should be able to help (No connection with them, my immigration office is in Bangkok but they seem to be one of the more popular ones in Pattaya) 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Mike Teavee

[Destiny1990]

8 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

My advice is leave Thailand alone, it's just not worth it anymore, it was once but I got out, many others have got out, there are about 60% less expats then there were 8 to 10 years ago.

I no-longer am living there.

I wish everyone with their visa extension procedures the best of joy. 

[murraynz]

On 9/1/2020 at 6:23 PM, GAZZPA said:

I assume you must have some personal ties to family or something in Thailand? If not why bother, there are other options and other countries. Thailand is not what it once was and is not welcoming for foreigners. All they really want is your cash but not you, so if you have no ties find somewhere better to live. Many of my old friends have gone back to Europe, 1 I know has settled in Cambodia and he is very happy, he says it remind shim of how Thailand used to be. Good luck fella.

Maybe thai immigration is unwelcoming and difficult,but i cant see how living in cambodia would solve the problem.

Its a filthy dump,even the beautiful beaches are filthy,even piles of rubbish directly outside fancy casinos,just soo amazing and primitive..