Bahrain follows Emirates in normalizing ties with Israel

[Psimbo]

Another trump non-event. I wonder how much Jared made out of it?

[dexterm]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You are quite capable of putting up with dictators and human rights violations, so long as they support the Palestinian in a manner fitting your agenda and politics. You do not even have all that many issues with the Palestinian leaderships acting in a similar way.

Fallacious nonsense dealt with previously but now trolled again by you. Of course one can abhor dictators, but that does not mean automatically hating every single thing a dictator does. I despise the other lunatic world leader, without mindlessly rejecting everything he does. That's idiotic.

Edited September 12, 2020 by dexterm

[dexterm]

59 minutes ago, Poet said:

Everyone, regardless of politics, should celebrate the normalization of relations between countries in that godforsaken region. This is the World's other cold war, based on politics that became redundant decades ago and barely-veiled anti-semitism. We should all celebrate its thawing.

Of course, as with anything involving Trump, and especially with the election weeks away, many will rush to distort what this means. So, let me put this into practical terms:

It will be possible for regular citizens to fly directly between Bahrain and Israel.

It will allow businesses to trade. It will allow universities and scientists to share research.

It will allow farmers to benefit from better technology and grow more food.

It will allow those will cancer to benefit from the best medical care in the region.

Most of all, it will allow people to interact with their supposed long-time enemies and see that they, too, are humans.

Like any other countries, the Emirates and Bahrain have problems but they evolving and improving over time. This agreement is part of that. They are tearing down a matrix of nonsense based on propaganda, hysteria, and fear.

They are going to interact with neighboring countries on their own terms, not on the basis of what the Iranians say.

They are not going to remain on a permanent war footing to accommodate the needs of the Palestinian leadership who, from all parties and in all decades, have been outrageously corrupt and always made the worst decisions for the Palestinian people. During years when their economy constantly teetered on the brink of collapse, Yasser Arafat accumulated over $3 billion, and the current lunatics are even worse.

Ignore those who rush to attack this because Trump's people engineered it. This is bigger than the petty politics of America. What has been achieved is already momentous but if Saudi does come onboard it will be truly historic, and pretty much every country in the region except for Iran will follow. Bang! Middle-East peace: Achieved.

Sure, at that point there isn't really any way to avoid giving Trump the Nobel, and, yeah, sure, the horrified reactions in the American media will be quality entertainment. The bigger point, however, is that, at last, something truly good is happening in 2020. Treasure that.

 

 

It will also allow ....Israel to continue its brutal apartheid occupation of 4.5 million Palestinians to which the dictator of Bahrain is now turning a blind eye, in order to feather his own nest. Shameful.

[Thorgal]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

That you do deny Iran's is seen as a potential threat by the rulers of Bahrain, doesn't make it so. If there was no such perceived threat, the "protection services" would not be a thing.

 

Bahrain has always been Shia and close to Persia (Iran).

What you call "protection services" is perhaps denominated as "racketeer" for other people.

 

Sunni Bahrain was allowed to be created by the British Empire. They've placed the Khalifa's to keep a majority of Sunni balance in the region. This balance was needed to keep the safe historical/economical route to the Indus after the Ottoman Empire.

 

Your "protection services" are based on historical diplomatic deals, not really a current Iran menace.

 

[dexterm]

51 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@dexterm

 

Another day, another rant. And yet another whine about unelected dictators, and human rights violations - issues that are less disturbing for poster if unelected dictators in question fall in line with his agenda and politics, or if they are Palestinian. Coming from a self-proclaimed "humanist", its as hypocritical as it gets. 

 

There is nothing in this agreement, or others, which "endorses" the Israeli occupation and/or treatment of the Palestinians. Following your "reasoning", most countries in the world "endorse" the same things, what with having full relations with Israel.

 

Trump using these diplomatic maneuvers to bolster his campaign? Sure. But that's pretty standard for many politicians near elections time. I doubt that your objection to such things is principled, or that you had issues with these when they were more inline with your agenda and politics.

 

Netanyahu can say pretty much anything with a straight face. That's what he does. He's way better at it than Trump, too. Feigning surprise or outrage over his statements is fine, but he's been at it for years, so should be familiar by now.

 

The Arab Peace Initiative was not accepted by all Palestinians. Hamas rejected and still rejects it. Also, it is only in your rants that conditions in the ME remained the same since it was aired. Those more attached to reality may notice some of the countries involved are not in any position or state to uphold things now: Syria, Lebanon, Iraq - or even the Palestinians themselves, are either too divided or at a disarray. You try real hard to paint it as solely being up to Israel, but it is not so.

 

Your imaginary boycott claims are amusing, while not being believable or even rational. Other than that, I kinda doubt the sort of advocacy is allowed on here. Security risks? How come? In your version of reality the Palestinians and their supporters aren't into this sort of thing.

And another personal attack from you. Keep it civil please.

 

>>Following your "reasoning", most countries in the world "endorse" the same things, what with having full relations with Israel.
...correct, and I condemn them too, on this forum and elsewhere. No dichotomy there.

 

>>The Arab Peace Initiative was not accepted by all Palestinians.
The usual attempt to obfuscate by playing the Hamas wild card. The Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat accepted the Arab Peace Initiative as did his successor Abbas who officially asked U.S. President Barack Obama to adopt it as part of his Middle East policy.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1039866.html

 

"Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders

 

“Hamas advocates the liberation of all of Palestine but is ready to support the state on 1967 borders without recognising Israel or ceding any rights,” Meshaal said in Doha on Monday announcing a new policy document.

 

The new document states that Hamas is not seeking war with the Jewish people - only with the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism that drives the occupation of Palestine.

 

I'm sure there are elements of nationalist and liberation movements all over the world that have not got all that they wanted, but can still accept a peace agreement. The Good Friday Peace agreement in Ireland springs to mind. The IRA do not accept UK sovereignty over part of Ireland, but they can live with it.

There are many Jewish ultra nationalists would not accept any form of a Palestinian state even after a peace agreement. The Israeli PM Netantanyahu won't. He barely tolerates Trump's patchwork quilt of Palestinian bantustans in a "non state".

 

>>In your version of reality the Palestinians and their supporters aren't into this sort of thing.
..racist baloney. You should be ashamed of such bigotry. Not all Israelis are terrorists either.

[Nout]

5 hours ago, pegman said:

So what weapons does this dictator get to suppress his people in exchange for this meaningless jesture?

I have been to Bahrain. It is one of the most free countries in the world, not just the Arab world. There is a minority group of Shias inspired to make problems by the unelected  repressive Iranian Mullahocracy. They do not want freedom for Bahrainis. The want a theocratic,  autocratic DICTATORSHIP.

[Nout]

9 minutes ago, dexterm said:

And another personal attack from you. Keep it civil please.

 

>>Following your "reasoning", most countries in the world "endorse" the same things, what with having full relations with Israel.
...correct, and I condemn them too, on this forum and elsewhere. No dichotomy there.

 

>>The Arab Peace Initiative was not accepted by all Palestinians.
The usual attempt to obfuscate by playing the Hamas wild card. The Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat accepted the Arab Peace Initiative as did his successor Abbas who officially asked U.S. President Barack Obama to adopt it as part of his Middle East policy.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1039866.html

 

"Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders

 

“Hamas advocates the liberation of all of Palestine but is ready to support the state on 1967 borders without recognising Israel or ceding any rights,” Meshaal said in Doha on Monday announcing a new policy document.

 

The new document states that Hamas is not seeking war with the Jewish people - only with the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism that drives the occupation of Palestine.

 

I'm sure there are elements of nationalist and liberation movements all over the world that have not got all that they wanted, but can still accept a peace agreement. The Good Friday Peace agreement in Ireland springs to mind. The IRA do not accept UK sovereignty over part of Ireland, but they can live with it.

There are many Jewish ultra nationalists would not accept any form of a Palestinian state even after a peace agreement. The Israeli PM Netantanyahu won't. He barely tolerates Trump's patchwork quilt of Palestinian bantustans in a "non state".

 

>>In your version of reality the Palestinians and their supporters aren't into this sort of thing.
..racist baloney. You should be ashamed of such bigotry. Not all Israelis are terrorists either.

A comment from a professional agitator and pro Palestinian ultimately seeking the destruction of Israel. Zionism is not racism. The UN made this clear in the 70s. This view of Zionism is thinly veiled anti semitism and the view of Islamic extremists and socialist agitators. That this view is becoming more mainstream do not make it true. It indicate how arab oil money has perverted western political thinking among the younger generations.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Nout

[evadgib]

Quote

The Foreign Secretary has issued a statement on the announcement of the normalisation of relations between Bahrain and Israel.

Bahrain and Israel: UK responds to announcement of normalisation

[Thorgal]

39 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I doubt your prowess as a strategist or being a military expert. There is no military "must" as you describe. Israel's basic strategy is not founded on long term defense anyway. 

 

Other than that, not sure what your post had to do with mine.

Israel with never bargain its military defense borders and religious capital.

 

You keep the narrative of the opposite like there's some hope if more Arab countries will normalize ties with Israel for a Palestinian peace deal.

 

No word from you for multiple manifestations against Trump in the US and against Netanyahu in Tel Aviv.

Both need this "Peace Deal of the Century" for their running elections.

 

Any Palestinian faction (PA, Hamas, Fatah) will wait the elections from the US and Israel before any negotiation, such as latest elections paper tiger hidden "Peace Deal of the Century".

[geriatrickid]

 

Does anyone read the long anti israel polemics? I could go back 2 years in this forum and they would be a rehash of the same  statements and themes.  I also note the double standard. The countries are suddenly illegitimate because they recognized Israel, but they were legitimate when they exchanged ambassadors with the PLA?    It is telling though when some in the forum get  upset because some prefer peace over fighting.

 

I am under no illusions. There won't be any magical reconciliation nor an increase in visitors. The Gulf states now get to formalize their ongoing exchange of military intelligence and push israel to  dispose of a common enemy.  Bahrain  does nothing without the permission of the KSA, so this was approved by KSA.  Oman should be next in line.  I expect hat we will soon see some announcements in respect to African countries.

 

5 hours ago, pegman said:

So what weapons does this dictator get to suppress his people in exchange for this meaningless jesture?

It's called peace. The arabs may have tired of westerners imposing their  political ideologies.

And it is not meaningless. The Lebanese  refused help from israel dismissing the gesture after the   port explosion and instead asked for money from the gulf states and western countries. This may drive home a point to lebanon about getting their affairs in order.

 

46 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

Another trump non-event. I wonder how much Jared made out of it?

This occurred during trump's presidency. He made more progress than the previous Obama and Bush administrations in this regard.  jared gets bragging rights. He said he would get some progress and he did. peace is better than war.

Not sorry you can't have  violence.

[Mavideol]

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"This is truly a historic day," Trump told reporters in the Oval Office, saying he believed other countries would follow suit.

all for the show / political stunts to divert people's attention from his bad doings

 

[Mavideol]

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Bahrain follows Emirates in normalizing ties with Israel

out of desperation political stunt nothing else, Bahrain didn't had restrained relations with Israel, in fact they have been working/dealing together for the past 20 years

 

https://www.axios.com/behind-scenes-us-brokered-bahrain-israel-deal-44d1a7d3-a93c-4eee-970e-1e354f314cf7.html?ref=hvper.com

Why it matters: Israel and Bahrain had a secret relationship for over two decades, meaning neither country had diplomatic relations and most of their contacts were through covert talks behind the scenes.

 

.... Kushner and his delegation traveled to Bahrain. A source familiar told me that before that trip Kushner purchased a Torah with his own money as a gift to Bahrain's King Hamad Bin Isa Al-Khalifa.

• Bahrain has a small Jewish community that has been in the country for years.

 

[dexterm]

26 minutes ago, Nout said:

A comment from a professional agitator and pro Palestinian ultimately seeking the destruction of Israel. Zionism is not racism. The UN made this clear in the 70s. This view of Zionism is thinly veiled anti semitism and the view of Islamic extremists and socialist agitators. That this view is becoming more mainstream do not make it true. It indicate how arab oil money has perverted western political thinking among the younger generations.

Hogwash. I wish I were paid even the minimum wage per hour defending Palestinian human rights... I'd be very wealthy indeed. My contributions to the debate are purely altruistic. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing is my credo.

 

I want only the destruction of the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism. I'd be very happy if the Arab Peace Initiative, that Bahrain and UAE have just undermined, resulted in a democratic predominantly Jewish state within the 67 lines. I'd also be very happy if Israel ends up as a truly democratic single state, where provisions could easily be made for it always to be a haven for Jews persecuted anywhere in the world.

 

Please don't play the hackneyed anti Semitic card. There isn't a racist bone in my body.

[JusticeGB]

1 hour ago, Psimbo said:

Another trump non-event. I wonder how much Jared made out of it?

If Obama had achieved this everyone would be singing his praises. Iran is the country that finances terrorism in the middle east and the only country in the middle east doing anything about it is Israel. 

[dexterm]

42 minutes ago, Nout said:

I have been to Bahrain. It is one of the most free countries in the world, not just the Arab world. There is a minority group of Shias inspired to make problems by the unelected  repressive Iranian Mullahocracy. They do not want freedom for Bahrainis. The want a theocratic,  autocratic DICTATORSHIP.

What a joke! Tell that to Hakeem al-Araibi the soccer player and countless other Bahrainis like him
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakeem_al-Araibi

He was imprisoned and tortured by the thugs of your benign Bahraini dictator Khalifa focusing on his legs so he couldn't play his beloved sport any more, fled as a refugee to Australia, and arrested in Thailand on honeymoon last year on a trumped up charge that he was attacking a Bahrain police station... his only alibi..he was being watched by millions on TV at the time playing football.

Eventually football loving fans world wide saved him.

 

That's the sort of person that is Trump and Netanyahu's newest most beautiful amazing dictator.

[dexterm]

44 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Bahrain and Israel: UK responds to announcement of normalisation

Yes, another backstabber who turns a blind eye to Palestinian suffering. And worse still coming from a country that is responsible for the whole conflict.

[Andy from Kent]

6 hours ago, ukrules said:

Can a President win 2 Nobel prizes? ????

 

While he sits in jail?

[dexterm]

52 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Does anyone read the long anti israel polemics? I could go back 2 years in this forum and they would be a rehash of the same  statements and themes.  I also note the double standard. The countries are suddenly illegitimate because they recognized Israel, but they were legitimate when they exchanged ambassadors with the PLA?    It is telling though when some in the forum get  upset because some prefer peace over fighting.

 

I am under no illusions. There won't be any magical reconciliation nor an increase in visitors. The Gulf states now get to formalize their ongoing exchange of military intelligence and push israel to  dispose of a common enemy.  Bahrain  does nothing without the permission of the KSA, so this was approved by KSA.  Oman should be next in line.  I expect hat we will soon see some announcements in respect to African countries.

 

It's called peace. The arabs may have tired of westerners imposing their  political ideologies.

And it is not meaningless. The Lebanese  refused help from israel dismissing the gesture after the   port explosion and instead asked for money from the gulf states and western countries. This may drive home a point to lebanon about getting their affairs in order.

 

This occurred during trump's presidency. He made more progress than the previous Obama and Bush administrations in this regard.  jared gets bragging rights. He said he would get some progress and he did. peace is better than war.

Not sorry you can't have  violence.

On a public forum it is better to hear both sides of a narrative, although I realise some would prefer to stifle and censor valid criticism of Israel. It's not obligatory to follow a thread or even a member.

 

I don't regard what Trump has encouraged as "progress". Rather Bahrain and UAE have now thrown away any bargaining cards they had that may have led to a peaceful two state solution. Wonder what Bahrain and UAE will do when Netanyahu tries to rekindle his love affair with the far right to win the next election by throwing his promises not to annex in the trashcan. They may have the good grace to blush slightly when their new best friend stabs them in the back too.

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, JusticeGB said:

If Obama had achieved this everyone would be singing his praises. Iran is the country that finances terrorism in the middle east and the only country in the middle east doing anything about it is Israel. 

I admire many things Obama achieved, but he blew his chance of ending the conflict. I would certainly not have sung his praises for the OP Bahrain and UAE betrayal. After such a promising start..he even scored a Nobel Prize for doing nothing apart from an inspiring speech at Cairo University in 2009. Then endured being lectured to by Netanyahu in his own Oval Office in 2011.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-campaign-video-boasts-of-lecturing-obama-in-the-oval-office/

 

He probably kept schtum in his second term to give Clinton a chance for the Democrats by not upsetting the powerful Israeli lobby. Sent John Kerry on a few futile peace missions, then too little too late he warned Israel it was heading towards a single apartheid state. The only concrete action he ever took was in his final month abstaining on the UN vote to end Jewish settlements...how bold! Obama could have really made a difference in the Middle East but wasted his 8 years of opportunities.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/23/us-abstention-allows-un-to-demand-end-to-israeli-settlements

 

If a body count of innocent civilians is the criterion, Israel easily wins the Terror State of The Middle East title.

[mrfill]

10 hours ago, ukrules said:

Can a President win 2 Nobel prizes? ????

Well, Hitler was nominated for a Peace prize in 1939 (he didn't win) and Joe Stalin was nominated in 1948 (surprisingly, he didn't win either). Even gorgeous pouting Vlad Putin was nominated in 2014.

A nomination for a Nobel Peace Prize doesn't mean a lot...

[Thingamabob]

7 hours ago, dexterm said:

The Nobel Peace Prize was not intended to reward a narcissistic lunatic who facilitates a nefarious deal between dictators and fascists, so that they can all continue suppressing human rights. Just might somehow demean the award.

Ridiculous, immature comment.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, dexterm said:

Fallacious nonsense dealt with previously but now trolled again by you. Of course one can abhor dictators, but that does not mean automatically hating every single thing a dictator does. I despise the other lunatic world leader, without mindlessly rejecting everything he does. That's idiotic.

 

My observation is neither fallacious, nor is it nonsense. And unless by dealt with you mean deflected, no such thing happened. When one self proclaims to be a "humanist", and yet repeatedly broadcasts that his pet political issue precedes all human rights considerations, that's hypocrisy. I refer to a specific, easily noticed pattern manifested only in conjunction with this conflict. As for the last word in your deflection post, guess you'll ask to keep it civil down topic. Another instance of hypocrisy.

 

 

[Morch]

10 hours ago, Thorgal said:

 

Bahrain has always been Shia and close to Persia (Iran).

What you call "protection services" is perhaps denominated as "racketeer" for other people.

 

Sunni Bahrain was allowed to be created by the British Empire. They've placed the Khalifa's to keep a majority of Sunni balance in the region. This balance was needed to keep the safe historical/economical route to the Indus after the Ottoman Empire.

 

Your "protection services" are based on historical diplomatic deals, not really a current Iran menace.

 

 

Bahrain is not 100% Shia. And your historical accounts are not really all that relevant to present day. You wish to claim that Iran (or rather, Persia) was not a threat back when, that's one thing. That at present it is, quite another thing. You wish to deny that? Go right ahead, and take it up with Bahrain's rulers.

 

The "protection services" aren't "mine", and it does not matter what they were based on back in the day, things change over time.

[Morch]

9 hours ago, dexterm said:

And another personal attack from you. Keep it civil please.

 

>>Following your "reasoning", most countries in the world "endorse" the same things, what with having full relations with Israel.
...correct, and I condemn them too, on this forum and elsewhere. No dichotomy there.

 

>>The Arab Peace Initiative was not accepted by all Palestinians.
The usual attempt to obfuscate by playing the Hamas wild card. The Palestinian Authority led by Yasser Arafat accepted the Arab Peace Initiative as did his successor Abbas who officially asked U.S. President Barack Obama to adopt it as part of his Middle East policy.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1039866.html

 

"Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders

 

“Hamas advocates the liberation of all of Palestine but is ready to support the state on 1967 borders without recognising Israel or ceding any rights,” Meshaal said in Doha on Monday announcing a new policy document.

 

The new document states that Hamas is not seeking war with the Jewish people - only with the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism that drives the occupation of Palestine.

 

I'm sure there are elements of nationalist and liberation movements all over the world that have not got all that they wanted, but can still accept a peace agreement. The Good Friday Peace agreement in Ireland springs to mind. The IRA do not accept UK sovereignty over part of Ireland, but they can live with it.

There are many Jewish ultra nationalists would not accept any form of a Palestinian state even after a peace agreement. The Israeli PM Netantanyahu won't. He barely tolerates Trump's patchwork quilt of Palestinian bantustans in a "non state".

 

>>In your version of reality the Palestinians and their supporters aren't into this sort of thing.
..racist baloney. You should be ashamed of such bigotry. Not all Israelis are terrorists either.

 

I wouldn't know what personal attack you discerned in my post, unless commenting on your posts and highlighting issues therein gives you offense. As expected, not practicing what you request - see your previous reply and my comment.

 

You claim to "condemn" most of the world countries, based on the fact that they maintain relations with Israel, and expect to be taken seriously? Or not be seen as extreme? Good luck with that, you'll need it.

 

I am aware of your insistence to ignore Hamas positions and policy, or to try and minimize their place in Palestinian politics. That's another misleading and unrealistic attempt to foist your agenda on facts. No actual reasoning is given for this, just deflections. Even the link provided does a poor job making your point. It mentions that "it does not explicitly supplant the previous charter of the founding fathers", and that's true - the previous charter was neither cancelled nor officially shelved. They simply have two of them now. The other point is that the new charter does not actually recognize Israel, and maintains the notion of armed struggle, liberation of all the area in questions with an end goal of Palestinian dominance.

Presenting this as somehow supportive of accepting of the the Arab Peace Initiative is false.

 

That you can acknowledge the existence of extremists on one side only, and try to obfuscate, deflect and misrepresent the fact that there are similar elements on the other side, is not an indication that you are here to discuss anything, let alone rationally. 

 

Your last comment is again a a poor deflection and a personal attack (whatever happened to that "keep it civil" on the top...?). You alleged a security risk to flights between the countries. Now, who will do such a thing? According to your narrative the Palestinians are not into that sort of thing, or am I wrong? I did not, obviously, made a claim about all Palestinians being terrorists - just another nonsense out of you.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, Nout said:

I have been to Bahrain. It is one of the most free countries in the world, not just the Arab world. There is a minority group of Shias inspired to make problems by the unelected  repressive Iranian Mullahocracy. They do not want freedom for Bahrainis. The want a theocratic,  autocratic DICTATORSHIP.

 

"...It is one of the most free countries in the world, not just the Arab world."

 

[Morch]

10 hours ago, Thorgal said:

Israel with never bargain its military defense borders and religious capital.

 

You keep the narrative of the opposite like there's some hope if more Arab countries will normalize ties with Israel for a Palestinian peace deal.

 

No word from you for multiple manifestations against Trump in the US and against Netanyahu in Tel Aviv.

Both need this "Peace Deal of the Century" for their running elections.

 

Any Palestinian faction (PA, Hamas, Fatah) will wait the elections from the US and Israel before any negotiation, such as latest elections paper tiger hidden "Peace Deal of the Century".

 

Israel already withdrew from territories held for "security considerations" when circumstances changed. Sinai Peninsula (twice), Southern Lebanon, the Gaza Strip, and certain areas in the West Bank. Also, Israel did not assume control of the Al-Aqsa mosque, in the very heart of Jerusalem. You're welcome to ignore facts or try and misrepresent them.

 

Unclear what narrative you claim I'm upholding. My comments regarding Arab countries normalizing their relations with Israel often acknowledge that while these are positive developments, they are no substitute for negotiation between the Israelis and the Palestinians, and that there's no real way of dodging the issue indefinitely. That said, I also think that, in general, a regional atmosphere based more on diplomacy and less on confrontation is better suited to advance negotiations between the sides. Its interest in  maintaining peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan sometimes makes Israel weary of certain actions, and allows for backdoor channel between it and the Palestinians, often facilitating (temporary) understandings. Having further ties with other countries in the region may enhance this.

 

 As for the "not a word" nonsense, you're welcome to visit many of my previous posts. You won't find much admiration for either Trump or Netanyahu on a plethora of issues. That they both use the current diplomatic advances for political gains was addressed (if not on this topic yet, then on some of the recent ones dealing with the same). 

 

While it is true that pretty much everyone everywhere is trying the "wait and see" with regard to the USA elections, one got to wonder which negotiations you think Hamas is considering engaging in (with regards to the OP)?

[Morch]

10 hours ago, dexterm said:

Hogwash. I wish I were paid even the minimum wage per hour defending Palestinian human rights... I'd be very wealthy indeed. My contributions to the debate are purely altruistic. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing is my credo.

 

I want only the destruction of the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism. I'd be very happy if the Arab Peace Initiative, that Bahrain and UAE have just undermined, resulted in a democratic predominantly Jewish state within the 67 lines. I'd also be very happy if Israel ends up as a truly democratic single state, where provisions could easily be made for it always to be a haven for Jews persecuted anywhere in the world.

 

Please don't play the hackneyed anti Semitic card. There isn't a racist bone in my body.

 

Well, professional or not, an agitator your certainly are. There aren't all that many examples in this forum of posters who for years focus on a single issue, treat it with extreme bias and do so in such a vehement manner. Considering that you dismiss, disregard, denigrate and scorn any views not fully aligned with your own, or any position failing to embrace your agenda, kinda doubt you're here to "debate" or discuss, more like preach a creed.

 

Concern about Palestinian human rights? Only if the violations are by Israel. If it's done by either one of the Palestinian leaderships, silence. Same goes for actions by various Arab governments and forces vs. Palestinians in their own countries. And never mind that Palestinian human rights seem to trump any others - not much complaints, if any, about human rights violations if the relevant regimes "support" the Palestinians.

 

The insistence that there is only one face to Zionism has been addressed and debunked numerous times. For obvious reasons, you cannot and will not accept or even acknowledge that. The Arab Peace Initiative, even if it was to be embraced by all sides does not imply Zionism's end - that's your own interpretation and it does not have much to do with anything. You one-state nonsense is all the more misleading, in that you imply its up to the Israelis to make it work, rather than it being a two-sided effort. Given that you do not actually comment (whether due to agenda dictates or just being uninformed) about Palestinian politics or the Palestinians' capacity for exhibiting the democratic and political standards required for such an endeavor clearly shows your bias and dishonesty.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, dexterm said:

What a joke! Tell that to Hakeem al-Araibi the soccer player and countless other Bahrainis like him
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakeem_al-Araibi

He was imprisoned and tortured by the thugs of your benign Bahraini dictator Khalifa focusing on his legs so he couldn't play his beloved sport any more, fled as a refugee to Australia, and arrested in Thailand on honeymoon last year on a trumped up charge that he was attacking a Bahrain police station... his only alibi..he was being watched by millions on TV at the time playing football.

Eventually football loving fans world wide saved him.

 

That's the sort of person that is Trump and Netanyahu's newest most beautiful amazing dictator.

 

And, had Bahrain rejected the normalization of relations with Israel, this would not have featured on your well-done-Bahrain post.

[Morch]

10 hours ago, dexterm said:

Yes, another backstabber who turns a blind eye to Palestinian suffering. And worse still coming from a country that is responsible for the whole conflict.

 

Well, I suggest you add all things UK to your imaginary boycott list, then. And the rest of the world too. Wonder if the device you spew the hate from was made in a country having relations with Israel, or by a firm doing business with Israel....and so on and so forth. Coming from someone willing to turn a blind eye to human suffering (while self proclaiming to be a "humanist") so long as the oppressors support a pet political cause, the hypocrisy is staggering.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, dexterm said:

I admire many things Obama achieved, but he blew his chance of ending the conflict. I would certainly not have sung his praises for the OP Bahrain and UAE betrayal. After such a promising start..he even scored a Nobel Prize for doing nothing apart from an inspiring speech at Cairo University in 2009. Then endured being lectured to by Netanyahu in his own Oval Office in 2011.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-campaign-video-boasts-of-lecturing-obama-in-the-oval-office/

 

He probably kept schtum in his second term to give Clinton a chance for the Democrats by not upsetting the powerful Israeli lobby. Sent John Kerry on a few futile peace missions, then too little too late he warned Israel it was heading towards a single apartheid state. The only concrete action he ever took was in his final month abstaining on the UN vote to end Jewish settlements...how bold! Obama could have really made a difference in the Middle East but wasted his 8 years of opportunities.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/23/us-abstention-allows-un-to-demand-end-to-israeli-settlements

 

If a body count of innocent civilians is the criterion, Israel easily wins the Terror State of The Middle East title.

 

Your last comment is, again, counterfactual. The Syrian civil war by itself eclipses anything Israel ever done in this department. Many other examples too. That's without referencing acts of violence taken against the Palestinians by certain regimes (or forces allied with them (Jordan, Syria and Egypt come to mind). 

 

That you have no qualms about making obviously bogus, over the top statements in order to fuel your hate mongering rants is nothing new.