Latest On Liquid Restrictions At Bkk Airport?

[RHCP]

Anyone got news on the proposed new restrictions on liquids/gels/creams etc. Is BKK now in line with other major airports that not more than 100 ml. per item can be taken on-board in a re-sealable plastic bag?

I am also confused about how they measure items such as toothpaste. These always have gram measurements but I only ever read about millimeters concerning the restrictions. Can anyone enlighten me on this?

[RHCP]

Anyone got news on the proposed new restrictions on liquids/gels/creams etc. Is BKK now in line with other major airports that not more than 100 ml. per item can be taken on-board in a re-sealable plastic bag?

I am also confused about how they measure items such as toothpaste. These always have gram measurements but I only ever read about millimeters concerning the restrictions. Can anyone enlighten me on this?

Update. Of course I meant millilitres not millimeters!! Confusing all these categories of measurements.

[lomatopo]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=114202

ICAO LAG Guidelines:

These guidelines say that all liquids, gels and aerosols (LAGs) should be handled in accordance with ICAO’s recommendations contained in State letter AS 8/11-06/100 dated 1 December 2006:

a) All LAGs should be carried in containers with a capacity not greater than 100 ml each (or the equivalent in other volumetric measurements, e.g. fluid ounces);

Any LAGs carried in a container larger than 100 ml are not to be accepted, even if the container is only part-filled;

c) Containers with LAGs should be placed in a transparent re-sealable plastic bag of a maximum capacity not exceeding one litre. The containers must fit comfortably within the transparent plastic bag, which should be completely closed;

d) Each passenger is permitted to carry only one such bag which is to be presented separately for screening;

e) All conventional security controls and checks, including random hand searches of passengers and cabin bags, are applicable;

f) Flight crew in uniform and on duty the day(s) of the journey are exempted from these restrictions; and

g) Exceptions are allowed for medications, baby milk/foods and special dietary or other medical requirements as enumerated in paragraph 2 of this document.

1.2 LAGs, in any volume, purchased at airport retail outlets or on board aircraft during the day(s) of the journey should not be allowed through security screening points unless they:

a) are carried in a Security Tamper-Evident Bag (STEB); and

have been protected from unlawful interference by a process of supply chain security, including the application of appropriate security measures at manufacturers and warehouses, during the delivery process for both LAGs and STEBs from the warehouse to the airport retail outlets and aircraft outlets, and while in stock/on display at those outlets.

ICAO notes: For the purpose of this document, liquids, gels and aerosols are referred to as LAGs and include but are not limited to: water and other drinks, soups, syrups, jams, stews, sauces and pastes; foods in sauces or containing a high liquid content; creams, lotions, cosmetics and oils; perfumes; sprays; gels including hair and shower gels; contents of pressurized containers, including shaving foam, other foam and deodorants; pastes including toothpaste; liquid-solid mixtures; mascara; lip gloss or lip balm; and any item of similar consistency at room temperature.

Empty containers with a capacity greater than 100 ml are permitted. Indicative size of the one litre re-sealable plastic bag: 20.5 cm x 20.5 cm or 25 cm x 15 cm, or equivalent.

1.3 ICAO’s security guidelines, available in the ICAO Security Manual for Safeguarding Civil Aviation Against Acts of Unlawful Interference (Doc 8973) may be adopted for the development of specific measures and incorporated, if needed, into the relevant airport and airline security programmes, regulated agent regimes and quality control measures. A set of minimum security principles for manufacturers and retailers of LAGs and STEBs is in paragraph 5 of this document.

1.4 A harmonized validation template will be available on the ICAO AVSECNET secure website for use by States. Ensuring compliance with the security measures applied to LAGs and STEBs within a State is a matter for the State concerned. Recognition of the robustness of LAGs and STEBs security in another State (or States) could be conducted via bilateral, multilateral or other arrangements as appropriate, which could include on-site verification.

2. EXEMPTIONS FOR MEDICATIONS AND SPECIAL DIETARY REQUIREMENTS, INCLUDING BABY FOODS.

2.1 Passengers.

2.1.1 Liquids, aerosols and gels of any kind carried in containers with a maximum volume of 100ml should be placed in the one litre bag.

However exemptions may be granted for LAGs which cannot be so carried, but which are needed during the journey, either for essential medical purposes or to meet special and essential dietary needs. When required to do so, the passenger or staff member should provide proof of authenticity of the exempted liquid.

2.1.2 This paragraph describes procedures which airports and airlines should follow in order to establish whether LAGs claimed to be essential may be taken by passengers through search points. Persons may be sensitive about medicines they are carrying, and so will need similarly sensitive handling.

If, having followed the procedures in this guidance, doubts remain about the provenance of a LAG, the person in question should be told that they cannot take it into the cabin of the aircraft. It follows that, since the LAG was regarded as essential, he or she should also be advised not to fly.

a) Journey: The liquid is to be used during the journey refers to the journey of the person and so should not, per se, be linked to the length of the flight. A passenger may only be taking a one-hour flight, but may be taking medicine greater than 100 ml.

If the medicine is being carried in a container of more than 100 ml, whether or not it fits into the litre bag is irrelevant. He or she should be asked why the medicine is needed in this amount, and whether it could not be carried in the aircraft hold. Only if the responses give the necessary assurance should the LAG’s carriage in the cabin be permitted.

Medical purposes: Liquids required for medical purposes should be interpreted as meaning liquid medicines, both prescribed by a doctor and bought over-the-counter. In determining if medicine with a total volume of over 100ml is indeed essential to be carried in the cabin, and that the amount being carried is no more than is necessary for the trip, the passenger should be questioned on the nature of the medicine; the reasons why it is claimed as essential; the dosage; and the frequency of dose necessary.

However, in principle, derogations for over-the-counter medicines (e.g. nose sprays, cough medicines, contact lens solution) should be more restrictive in the quantity of liquid that is permitted since these are not “life-or death” medicines.

In addition, liquids that are not medicines but are used for medical purposes are permitted, examples of which include ice (if used to maintain the temperature of, for example, a transplant organ), blood or blood products, and even “normal” liquids if their use is justified on medical grounds (e.g. an autistic traveller that “needs” to have a particular brand of drink).

c) Dietary needs: Liquids as a special dietary need should be interpreted as meaning those foods without which the passenger’s health is threatened. Examples include baby food (provided, of course, that a baby is travelling), or foods such as special diets for lactose-intolerant passengers, or gluten-intolerant passengers.

Where the volume of baby food is deemed excessive for the length of the journey, it is not to be allowed through the screening point. Baby products may include: baby milk; sterilised water; baby juice; baby food in liquid, gel or paste form; and wet wipes.

d) Proof of authenticity: When requested to do so, the passenger should provide proof of authenticity of the exempted liquids. It should be established that the name on the label of the prescription medication matches the name on his/her boarding pass.

Where the medication is non-prescription, a determination on reasonable amounts is required. Reasonable amounts include what is required for length of the flight taking into account possible delays and flight diversions. If doubts are felt about the quantity of liquid being carried by a passenger, or that the liquids are for medical purposes or special dietary needs, then a plausibility check should be performed.

The passenger could be invited to sample the items or rub them on their skin to prove they are safe (hydrogen peroxide-based explosives are caustic, and thus could not be safely tasted or rubbed onto the skin).

For medicine prescribed by a doctor, the passenger should be able to show that it is for his/her own use, for example by having their name on the label of the medicine or a note from a doctor. When verifying the proof of authenticity, the following should be taken into consideration:

1) A passenger should not be asked to taste their medication if the dosage/usage instruction or advice from their doctor indicates that it would be dangerous to do so;

2) Passenger should not be made to taste any medication, either their own or their child’s, against their wishes;

3) For children’s prescription medication, the accompanying adult passenger should not be asked to taste the medicine, verification should instead be sought through questioning;

4) If a container is marked in grams, it may be assumed that 100g corresponds to 100 ml; and

5) Where a passenger has been asked to rub a small amount of the LAG onto their skin, the passenger’s skin should be monitored for at least two minutes to see if a reaction occurs.

2.2 Airport Staff

2.2.1 The personal items of airport staff entering a security restricted area and on board an aircraft (i.e. beverages, perfumes, cosmetics, medications and other similar items) should be subjected to the same restrictions and exemptions as passengers.

However, tools of the trade are exempt from LAGs restrictions. Tools of the trade are defined as articles in a person’s possession which are required for the lawful purpose for which he or she is in the sterile area. Tools of the trade may include items such as cleaning products, sealants, degreasers, glues, paints and oils.

2.3 Exempt Persons

2.3.1 The State may decide to exempt from LAGs restrictions (e.g. law enforcement officers and emergency personnel responding to a crisis).

3. TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS FOR STEBS.

3.1 Material to be used.

- transparent (high impact low density polyethylene (LDPE) or equivalent);

- recyclable and environment-friendly products if possible; and

- size and thickness (minimum of 50 microns) to be adjusted to the needs.

3.2 On the top face of the STEB

3.2.1 Closure:

- red tamper evident tape (minimum 30 mm tape with 40 mm release liner);

- high tack pressure sensitive self adhesive; and

- integral security device/hidden graphic to show if tampered with.

3.2.2 Border:

- side and bottom weld be no less than 15 mm width in red; and

- printed border of minimum 5 mm with "DO NOT OPEN", airport name, or any other continuous message or design which may bleed over the edge of the bag.

(Optional - integral security device/hidden graphic to show if borders are tampered with.)

3.2.3 Message:

- security sign in green in the middle of the security box; and

- box in red at bottom stating "Do not open until final destination -contents may be confiscated if bag is tampered with".

3.2.4 Confirmation/identification features:

- Receipt space (or jacket, optional) inside the bag visible in the top left of the security box.

The receipt should contain the following information:

a) date of purchase (dd/mm/yy or dd/mm/yyyy);

place of purchase (State, airport, airline) using international codes;

c) flight number(s) and name of passenger, if possible;

d) number and list of items purchased and placed in the STEB.

3.2.5 Origin of the bag:

- State three-letter code to determine the State of origin where the STEB was provided to the passenger, or airline international code (for duty free sales on board) to determine the origin of the STEB;

- Manufacturer name (in full pending ICAO’s registration number); and

- Inventory code and security code or device to protect STEB at retailers and shops.

3.3 On the back face of the bag.

- Individual airport/retailers/other branding or logos.

4. OPERATIONAL CONSIDERATIONS FOR THE USE OF THE STEB.

4.1 Ideally, and in order to facilitate the visual inspection, only LAGs purchased at airport shops, and potentially subjected to security screening at a later stage of the journey, should be placed in the STEB. Other items which might not be confiscated should either be placed in another (regular) bag or, if placed inside the STEB, should not compromise the visual inspection performed at security screening points during the journey. No items other than those purchased at the airport shop should be placed in the STEB.

4.2 Receipts should be inside the STEB, face visible from outside, and securely placed in the left top of the security box (either with a jacket inside the bag, or fixed accordingly). If the receipt has moved and is not visible for security screening purposes, the bag will have to be opened and its contents may be confiscated (or placed in a new STEB by security staff at the security screening point).

4.3 State or airline and manufacturer codes are placed by the manufacturers. Inventory and security codes are the responsibility of the retailers. STEBs should be distributed to authentic parties only.

5. PROPOSED SECURITY PRINCIPLES FOR RETAIL LIQUID, AEROSOL AND GEL ITEMS FOR AIRPORT RETAILERS AND MANUFACTURERS.

5.1 Security measures during manufacture and warehousing.

5.1.1 In order to ensure the security integrity of LAGs and STEBs, the following security measures are recommended for implementation at the warehouse where retail LAGs and STEBs are consigned:

a) Access control system, including screening procedures, allowing only authorized personnel into the premises, including verification of staff and visitors’ identities (for airport staff, Standard 4.2.6 of Annex 17, Eighth Edition, is applicable);

Surveillance systems (i.e. CCTV or equivalent) to monitor activities in the warehouse for preventing intrusion, tampering with and thefts of goods, or interference in processes; and

c) Access control system upon exit from the warehouse so that nothing could be substituted or used to prepare an act of unlawful interference (for airport staff, exit control measures could be carried out when exiting the Security Restricted Area).

5.2 Security measures during shipments.

5.2.1 Only sealed bins/containers and/or trucks should be used for shipments of LAGs or STEBs to airport shops or airline outlets. Any LAGs or STEBs taken out of the warehouse must be accompanied by appropriate documentation and a delivery manifest, which should be retained for possible future audit.

Security tamper-evident bags at airport shops or airline outlets should always be protected and under surveillance before being used by authorized staff. Staff at airports with access to LAGs and/or STEBs should be subjected to appropriate background checks and physical search regime.

5.3 Quality control.

5.3.1 All security measures for LAGs and STEBs should normally be incorporated into relevant security programmes (retailer security programme if considered as regulated agent according to Standard 4.6.3 of Annex 17, Eighth Edition, airport security programme and operator security programme for airline outlets).

In addition, technical assessments/tests of the security measures on premises should be conducted in order to maintain an adequate level of protection.

Retailers are encouraged to discuss such assessments/tests with the Appropriate Security Authority or Airport Authority. If a security breach is detected, security/duty supervisors, and the Appropriate Security Authorities or the police should be immediately alerted so that appropriate actions are taken. Any suspicious parcels should be dealt with under standard operating procedures.

5.3.2 Details on the implementation of the above-mentioned principles are being developed in the ICAO Security Manual, Seventh Edition, Volume IV.

[iang]

With regards to this, when travelling to countries who have adopted these new regulations, I was advised that liquids (wine / spirits) bought in airport duty free shops would be allowed.

Not necessarily so!

I just travelled Chiang Mai - Singapore - Australia & bought a bottle in duty free Chiang Mai. I was only in transit in Singapore and didn't go outside at all. At the departure gate, the bottle was siezed by police (security refer 'offenders' to the police!). The police very politely explained that if I had bought my duty free in Singapore, it would not have been a problem (where it is now delived to the departure gate after purchase), but as I had bought my duty free in another country, it was not permitted to travel with me & had to be siezed, even though I had only been in transit!

Beware!

[wpcoe]

With regards to this, when travelling to countries who have adopted these new regulations, I was advised that liquids (wine / spirits) bought in airport duty free shops would be allowed.

Not necessarily so!

I just travelled Chiang Mai - Singapore - Australia & bought a bottle in duty free Chiang Mai. I was only in transit in Singapore and didn't go outside at all. At the departure gate, the bottle was siezed by police (security refer 'offenders' to the police!). The police very politely explained that if I had bought my duty free in Singapore, it would not have been a problem (where it is now delived to the departure gate after purchase), but as I had bought my duty free in another country, it was not permitted to travel with me & had to be siezed, even though I had only been in transit!

Beware!

Did you contact your airline about checking the duty free bottle as luggage at that point? Being as security is at the gate in Singapore, that should have been possible. My experience with UA in Narita is that if you get screened at the gate with "liquid/gel/cream contraband" they will provide a bag or box and gate-check it for you.

[steve down under]

After reading through all those rules and regulations concerning LAGs what next ? due to American paranoia and scare mongering will all airline passengers be forced to board the plane totally naked after submitting first to intimate body searches to prove there is nothing hidden up various orifi and then shackled to their seats to stop the possibility of them hijacking the plane or worse ? I for one think that the current situation is very much a case of severe overreaction in as much as people are seeing terrorists everywhere when in fact all they are seeing in reality are people going about their lawful business (ie muslim or any one of middle eastern appearance= terrorist)

[peter991]

Suvarnabhumi Airport seems to do things back to front. At other International airports, prior to checking in, you are clearly warned to pack liquids greater than 100ml in your check-in luggage. Then you are handed a 1 litre clear platic bag to put your containers of liquids. You will fit about 5 containers in the bag.

At Suvarnabhumi Airport you check in and proceed to your aircraft's Gate. At this point, prior to opening the Gate, you are met by a group of 3 or 4 inspectors, who don rubber gloves and (with your permission) sift through your carry-on luggage, looking for containers of liquids.

The officer checking my bag found a 100ml aerosol deoderant in my bag. He missed a 90ml roll-on deoderant - which I kindly pointed out to him.

Peter

[Gumballl]

After reading through all those rules and regulations concerning LAGs what next ? due to American paranoia and scare mongering will all airline passengers be forced to board the plane totally naked after submitting first to intimate body searches to prove there is nothing hidden up various orifi and then shackled to their seats to stop the possibility of them hijacking the plane or worse ? I for one think that the current situation is very much a case of severe overreaction in as much as people are seeing terrorists everywhere when in fact all they are seeing in reality are people going about their lawful business (ie muslim or any one of middle eastern appearance= terrorist)

Actually it was a few Brits that came up with the notion to bring down a plane or two with their liquid concoctions. The US only performed the necessary study to determine what the maximum quantity would be needed to actually carry out a terrorist attack. Thus the US (and other countries) now have set a threshold to limit the amount of non-screened liquids onto a flight.

As for your comment concerning "people going about their lawful business", perhaps you have not kept up with recent events around the globe. There are people out their that do not respect your laws, much less any law. They just want to kill innocents and hope that they will be judged favorably in the afterlife.

[Gumballl]

Suvarnabhumi Airport seems to do things back to front. At other International airports, prior to checking in, you are clearly warned to pack liquids greater than 100ml in your check-in luggage. Then you are handed a 1 litre clear platic bag to put your containers of liquids. You will fit about 5 containers in the bag.

At Suvarnabhumi Airport you check in and proceed to your aircraft's Gate. At this point, prior to opening the Gate, you are met by a group of 3 or 4 inspectors, who don rubber gloves and (with your permission) sift through your carry-on luggage, looking for containers of liquids.

The officer checking my bag found a 100ml aerosol deoderant in my bag. He missed a 90ml roll-on deoderant - which I kindly pointed out to him.

Peter

Perhaps they are doing things in reverse of other airports, but I think what Suvarnabhumi is doing is the proper way.

In the US, before one passes through the security checkpoints (before proceeding to the departure gates), the contraband check is performed. Following their clearance from the security checkpoint, passengers are presented with a cornucopia of shops that sell almost everything, including liquids and gels. Passengers can purchase "unlimited" quantities. I just hope the shop keepers are in cohorts with the terrorists.

Initially when the US banned all liquids and gels from aircraft, the airport shops were probably wailing at the injustice (and lost business) this policy created. The policy now only requires passengers to dump excessive quantities of liquids and gels at the security checkpoint and not before boarding the aircraft, thus preventing any future loss of revenues to these shops, and perhaps placating the passengers who enjoyed spending 200-300% more on everyday products.

Now it is up to you to decide which system is better. Do you prefer to put your trust in shop vendors that barely earn a minimum wage to not supply a terrorist with a molotov cocktail, or would you prefer stricter checks just prior to boarding the aircraft? I for one prefer the latter.

[backflip]

The quantity of liquids allowed is dependent upon your final destination, and it is up to you to know what's allowable. Outside of many duty-free shops at the HK Int'l airport, a sign each country's allowable amounts, but the duty-free shop will sell you whatever you want in whatever quantity.

[PhilHarries]

Personally when I'm travelling by air these days I do not bother checking up on the airline's/airport's policy on LAG's in carry on luggage. I assume NO LAG's are allowed in my carry on bag so do not pack any and buy all new gels, toothpaste and soaps at destination. On return I have a choice, either chuck the unused protions away or pack them and check the bag in as hold luggage. The latter just means a bit of a wait at the baggage claim.

Of course this doesn't work for folks on medication who need the stuff in flight or are travelling with small babies but it would cover 90% of travellers.

The concept of picking your duty frees up at the gate isn't new. I vaguely remember an airport, in Europe I think, I used on a frequent basis a long while back where this system was employed. In that case though I think it was because domestic and international travellers used the same terminal.

Gumballl mentioned the possibility of one of the DF shop workers being in with the terrorists. This is something I am concerned about as it wouldn't take much to pay an assistant to place a "special" bottle of Johnny Black on a particular shelf for collection. The protection against that is airport security, a subject gracing the pages of the Bangkok Post recently.

[jts-khorat]

Maybe of interest for all those who have fallen prey to the idiotic scare-mongering of the US:

The Register, Aug 2006:

"Binary liquid explosives are a sexy staple of Hollywood thrillers. It would be tedious to enumerate the movie terrorists who've employed relatively harmless liquids that, when mixed, immediately rain destruction upon an innocent populace, like the seven angels of God's wrath pouring out their bowls full of pestilence and pain.

The funny thing about these movies is, we never learn just which two chemicals can be handled safely when separate, yet instantly blow us all to kingdom come when combined. Nevertheless, we maintain a great eagerness to believe in these substances, chiefly because action movies wouldn't be as much fun if we didn't.

Now we have news of the recent, supposedly real-world, terrorist plot to destroy commercial airplanes by smuggling onboard the benign precursors to a deadly explosive, and mixing up a batch of liquid death in the lavatories.

We're told that the suspects were planning to use TATP, or triacetone triperoxide, a high explosive that supposedly can be made from common household chemicals unlikely to be caught by airport screeners. A little hair dye, drain cleaner, and paint thinner - all easily concealed in drinks bottles - and the forces of evil have effectively smuggled a deadly bomb onboard your plane." ...

"Making a quantity of TATP sufficient to bring down an airplane is not quite as simple as ducking into the toilet and mixing two harmless liquids together.

First, you've got to get adequately concentrated hydrogen peroxide. This is hard to come by, so a large quantity of the three per cent solution sold in pharmacies might have to be concentrated by boiling off the water. Only this is risky, and can lead to mission failure by means of burning down your makeshift lab before a single infidel has been harmed.

But let's assume that you can obtain it in the required concentration, or cook it from a dilute solution without ruining your operation. Fine. The remaining ingredients, acetone and sulfuric acid, are far easier to obtain, and we can assume that you've got them on hand." ...

"Once the plane is over the ocean, very discreetly bring all of your gear into the toilet. You might need to make several trips to avoid drawing attention. Once your kit is in place, put a beaker containing the peroxide / acetone mixture into the ice water bath (Champagne bucket), and start adding the acid, drop by drop, while stirring constantly. Watch the reaction temperature carefully. The mixture will heat, and if it gets too hot, you'll end up with a weak explosive. In fact, if it gets really hot, you'll get a premature explosion possibly sufficient to kill you, but probably no one else.

After a few hours - assuming, by some miracle, that the fumes haven't overcome you or alerted passengers or the flight crew to your activities - you'll have a quantity of TATP with which to carry out your mission. Now all you need to do is dry it for an hour or two.

The genius of this scheme is that TATP is relatively easy to detonate. But you must make enough of it to crash the plane, and you must make it with care to assure potency. One needs quality stuff to commit "mass murder on an unimaginable scale," as Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Stephenson put it. While it's true that a slapdash concoction will explode, it's unlikely to do more than blow out a few windows.

We believe this because a peer-reviewed 2004 study in the Journal of the American Chemical Society (JACS) entitled "Decomposition of Triacetone Triperoxide is an Entropic Explosion" tells us that the explosive force of TATP comes from the sudden decomposition of a solid into gasses. There's no rapid oxidizing of fuel, as there is with many other explosives: rather, the substance changes state suddenly through an entropic process, and quickly releases a respectable amount of energy when it does. (Thus the lack of ingredients typically associated with explosives makes TATP, a white crystalline powder resembling sugar, difficult to detect with conventional bomb sniffing gear.)" ...

[PhilHarries]

Maybe of interest for all those who have fallen prey to the idiotic scare-mongering of the US:

So on the back of some Myth Busters mumbo jumbo you are prepared to take the risk that this lengthy load of "science" is right?

I dare say pre 9/11 you could have come up with something from Wikipedia proving that it would be impossible to bring the world trade centre with a domestic airliner.

[backflip]

"First, you've got to get adequately concentrated hydrogen peroxide. This is hard to come by, so a large quantity of the three per cent solution sold in pharmacies might have to be concentrated by boiling off the water...."

Or, you could buy commercial wood bleach, which is a potent chemical binary - and one ingredient is hydrogen peroxide of sufficient concentration to do the job.

Listen, Nancy, just because YOU don't know the chemicals required that doesn't indicate that it is impossible to do.

[wpcoe]

Perhaps relevant to the discussions of explosives in this thread:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/289485/binar...at_scary_stuff/

[grtaylor]

I don't know who writes these regulations, but they are very difficult to understand. Simple question - can one still buy duty-free booze at Bangkok or not?

G

[backflip]

Yes you can.