Seeking Farang Business Associate

[Indo-Siam]

Business Proposition: Indo-Siam Group will open a branch office in Phuket

I need one serious-minded business person with good energy level to invest in this project.

Proposal:

1. Investor will put 1,000,000 baht cash into my company. He will NOT get equity ownership. He will become a director of my company.

2. 850,000 baht of his investment amount will be placed into a company bank account that he will establish in Phuket. From this amount, he will pay his own salary for 12-14 months.

3. 30,000 baht of his money will be used to get him a work permit, entry permit extension, and to pay company matching social fund contributions on his salary, and other support expenses.

4. 120,000 baht will be used to open a leased office in Phuket, hire a Thai operations manager there, and pay most operating expenses for first three months.

5. The 1,000,000 baht investment and Thai office/operations manager for Phuket are needed, in order for my company to qualify to sponsor second foreign employee.

6. I expect that Phuket office operation will not generate money to pay this individual a significant salary from operational income, for 12-14 months. Beginning at 18 months, 10,000 baht per month will be refunded to individual, to repay 120,000 baht of the money used to open the Phuket office.

7. Phuket office will be run as a profit center. Starting at month 10, Phuket office must begin sending profit stream back to Bangkok parent office – starting at 10,000 baht per month. Majority of location income will remain in Phuket, to pay salaries and expenses, and to serve as local retained earnings.

8. I have spreadsheet model prepared, to show financial projections. Projections assume that investor will not be heavily involved – our business services operations in Phuket will run largely without you. Model indicates that salary available for investor will exceed 60,000 baht per month before second anniversary.

9. A sharp individual filling this position can create his own revenue-generating operations under the company “umbrella” – and retain almost all of the additional income thus earned. Things like website development, exporting products, and similar. But – I will not allow shady activities to be associated with the company.

10. Parent company will supply e-mail addresses, primary accounting support, training of Phuket operations staff, and marketing and bookkeeping support. In past 90-days, I have turned away six Phuket inquiries, due to lack of an office there.

11. My ideal candidate: Someone who wants to live in Phuket, and has their own revenue-generating business operation that is not disreputable, but that needs a work permit and extended entry permit. Good website development skills – that is what he will contribute to parent company. Ability to set up Phuket office, and hire and oversee a local Thai operations manager. Perhaps 15-20 hours per week required, supporting our mission business in Phuket.

Required personal characteristics:

Integrity

Dependability

Strong English language skills

Primary activities of my company may be seen at:

www.thaistartup.com

www.bangkokstaff.com

www.thaitradedata.com

www.siamwebsite.com

If you are interested, contact me at [email protected].

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[daveh]

7. Phuket office will be run as a profit center. Starting at month 10, Phuket office must begin sending profit stream back to Bangkok parent office – starting at 10,000 baht per month. Majority of location income will remain in Phuket, to pay salaries and expenses, and to serve as local retained earnings.

Could you clarify this point? What happens if the Phuket office is not getting the income from your projection?

Thanks.

[Indo-Siam]

In that case, then I guess I don't get my 10,000 baht per month - and maybe the Thai operations manager gets her walking papers. Investor gets his salary - he will be the only one with signature authority over his bank account.

In my financial models, I tend to make pessimistic projections, to protect myself from unhappy outcomes - even as I operate as an enthusiastic optimist in all other dealings.

Does anyone out there have any good comments/feedback concerning existing law offices or business services firms in Phuket that do company start-ups - good, bad, or indifferent performance?

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[Crocs]

What kind of "Phuket enquiries" have you had to turn down?

[Indo-Siam]

Business start-ups - incorporation, work permit, entry permit extension, tax registrations, licensing, and similar.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[Khun ?]

30,000 baht a month does not qualify for work permit if new laws are applied.

[Indo-Siam]

The associate will be paid a qualifying salary from his own money contributed to the Phuket bank account - i.e. the 850,000 baht. That's 70,0000 baht per month fpr 12 months, or 60,000 baht per month for 14 months. It's his money, paid back to him less tax and social fund withholding. That's the price of a work permit and entry permit for doing basically very little.

This arrangement might be attractive for someone who has an independent business that pays him a good income, but is not sufficiently "formal" in Thailand to support employment. Now, income from that business can flow into his local Indo-Siam bank account - and he can sustain himself forever. The office established in Phuket can support his activity, and also support my activity, based on business that I will flow to that office, to be handled by a Thai operations manager that I hire and place there.

Steve

Indo-Siam

[daveh]

The associate will be paid a qualifying salary from his own money contributed to the Phuket bank account - i.e. the 850,000 baht.  That's 70,0000 baht per month fpr 12 months, or 60,000 baht per month for 14 months.  It's his money, paid back to him less tax and social fund withholding.  That's the price of a work permit and entry permit for doing basically very little.

I think that is fine. But what I don't understand is what the associate would get in return for the hours he contributes (15-20 / week). Yes, he is getting paid, but he is getting paid from his own money.

[Indo-Siam]

He would get a work permit and extended entry permit, and be fully legal. He would also get a company to back him up - be able to provide tax receipts to customers of his other business. He would also get a flow of clients referred to the Phuket office by the Head Office.

Over the past 12 months, I have seen dozens of postings on this forum that basically say: "I am an XX year old citizen of ZZZ, not married, and running my own "informal" business from Thailand (or - wanting to run such a business). But, I am tired of making visa runs, and I don't like the idea that I can be arrested for working illegally. But - I also don't have the money to start a company that qualifies to sponsor me for a long-term entry permit - and it sounds to me like starting a company is a lot of hassle..."

Well, I am proposing a solution that satisfies this scenario. If someone has an on-line business, or export business, that can bring in 75,000 baht per month income, they get an immediate legal status, and become self-sustaining forever. Along the way, they effectively loan me 150,000 baht - 80% of which gets returned to them within three years.

Are there risks? Sure:

1. I'm a crook, and I manage to steal their 1,000,000 baht - or at least 150,000 baht.

2. My business projections are bad, I am unable to bring business to the Phuket office, and they lose the 120,000 baht they thought they would get back, starting at month 18. And - after 12 or 14 months, their 850,000 baht is gone, and they can no longer pay themselves. So they lose their status of legal employment.

3. SuperSARS arrives, and wipes out international air travel for 18 months. Or - terrorists start blowing things up in Phuket, and all foreigners flee.

The value proposition that I am laying out only makes sense when you compare it to what other alternative(s) the "investor" has. I do not "have" to proceed with opening a Phuket office in 2004. Nothing in my life changes if I don't proceed. So - all I am doing is seeing whether I can provide a mutually-beneficial solution - by matching my company's ability to "sponsor" up with an independent operator who wants to "get legal".

I think this scenario can work out even if the two parties remain at arm's length. But - I am hoping that the right person comes along to create a synergism that makes the Phuket operation a screaming success.

And - if no one comes along, then I will still open a Phuket office - but later, instead of sooner.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[Darknight]

Comes pretty close to a scam indo siam , i expected better than this .

If i need to capitalize your company, You need to return the value in shares at least. Wonder how you ever gonna find venture capital with your system

If i need to put in 1 mil to pay myself a salary for a year i might just as well live from the 1 mil in the first place.

Just to easy for you to "dismiss or fire" your director after a few months and keep the money.

Good luck finding the sucker

[Indo-Siam]

Hey Dark Knight - No problem. If you think that I am a weak spirited type who rolls over under criticism, you are mistaken.

You stepped up on my thread - so now you can lay out for everyone the math - unless you are a total phony:

OK - you have the 1,000,000 baht that you want to live off of in Thailand. But you have no legal basis to stay longer than 90 days.

You want to stay here for at least three years.

Lay out for me the quarterly and annual costs to do visa runs for three years. Or - even 14 months. Bus fare, or airfare. Foreign entry permit costs. Hotel costs. Thai visa costs. Airport taxes. Food. Harrassment.

If you want to run any kind of business that involves Thai corporate customers - and they want to write off money paid to you as business expenses, for tax and VAT purposes - explain to me how you are going to do that.

What is your basis for being in Thailand? How many Thais do you employ?

Here's my guess - you are a con artist, so you see every situation as a scam - because that's how you think.

But - I also acknowledge that Bangkok is full of farang crooks, and I might be one of them. Once people visit my company's office, they generally walk away understanding that we are a legitimate operation.

And - I already have agreement to my proposal - in principle - from someone who is unrelated to this board. So - I think there will soon be a Phuket office of Indo-Siam Group. We'll see.

Steve

Indo-Siam

[penelope]

Dear beloved friend,

My name is Mbekiki Namabunga III, son of the late Dr. Samuel Namabunga ..

etc....

haha

sorry...couldn't help myself.

[daveh]

Comes pretty close to a scam indo siam , i expected better than this .

If i need to capitalize your company, You need to return the value in shares at least. Wonder how you ever gonna find venture capital with your system

If i need to put in 1 mil to pay myself a salary for a year i might just as well live from the 1 mil in the first place.

Just to easy for you to "dismiss or fire" your director after a few months and keep the money.

Good luck finding the sucker

To tell you the truth, I thought about it. As Steve mentions, it could be good for someone, like myself, that has plans for a business that generates income but it not quite ready to hire four Thai employees. After a year or so, I may be ready for it, but not right now. For me, I suspect my business would occupy more of my time, so I would not be able to contribute the 15-20 hours per week that Steve was requesting. You are right, that one should beware of crooks. But this is true in life in general. There are ways you can protect yourself.

[Darknight]

Here's my guess - you are a con artist, so you see every situation as a scam - because that's how you think.

Yeah sure , that's the answer . I'm not coming here to say "please give me a million , i'll give you a work permit".

it's Simpel all over the world " investment equals shares hold"

If you want to make it "investment equals work permit"

Then that's your business, but i pitty the fool who's falling for it. There is notting stopping you to fire your director, claim your capital from the bank account and you live happily a year on 1 million. That he's the only signature holder means nothing, the account will be the company's anyway no?

THat you are a respectable company i'm very willing to believe. Still a lot of respectable company's have a lot of business practices that lack a lot of ethics

[sting01]

to make things better, I have to precize that :

Indo Siam (Mr Steve Sykes) exist since a ouple of year, and I never heard a compalin about how he run his business.

I did as contractor some little things for him, and I must confess as the opposite of many farangs who are just looking to take advantages (I did not named someone, but I could if needed) he was ABSOLUTELY correct.

I disagre with the fact to call him, or suggest he could be called : a limp wrist who rolls over under criticism. He just propose a solution who can arrange some of us. I am just sad he did not propose it 1 year ago.

Regardss

and good luck Steve

[wcr]

Steve, why mention having a limp wrist? Does that mean if you have a limp wrist and presume you mean someone who is gay, they would not be a strong business man and would just roll over as you say and allow themselves to be walked all over?

[Darknight]

I disagre with the fact to call him, or suggest he could be called : a limp wrist who rolls over under criticism. He just propose a solution who can arrange some of us.

Before it goes even more in to the wrist thing.

Indo siam called himself that ?

This is probably no gay statement, neither abuse , more a pun regards to me challenging his idea.

If you have 1 million to spare it's just as easy to start your own business with that money. The requirement of 4 thais working for you can be calculated in your bisuness plan as well. Include your wife, mia noi, a secretary and a cleaning lady and you have it already.

At least you will be fully in charge, total ownership ect...and accountable for your own actions only. you only need to deposit 500.000 in capital to start your biz , from that you can also pay yourself a salary for 7 to 8 months to satisfy minimum requirements for a work permit. So you've got half a million to spare and 7 months to get break even.

I presume steve is just short on cash flow at the moment to open his phuket office. It's a well thought out idea on his part to gain that extra capital (cash flow) for a year without giving away nothing.

I'll say it again: investment = shares.

If he just wants to open a branch office he can still do it by HIRING a farang director if he doesn't trust a thai one. You will have a work permit then also

[Indo-Siam]

I actually started this thread after someone unrelated to this board approached me with a version of this idea, in order to create a job for himself in Phuket - but he will not be executing until late in the year.

So- out of idle curiosity, I posted this announcement - on the same day that someone else came on this forum posting about looking for investment ideas in Phuket.

Maybe six months ago, I'm also the guy who answered a thread on this board from yet another clueless individual who was saying "I'm soandso, from wherever, with general IT and management skills, and I'm looking for a good job in Thailand (where I know no one) that will pay me at least 5,000 USD per month - who can help me?" - or something like that.

My reply was to the effect: "No problem, I'll hire you at that rate. Just contact me and convince me that you can immediately bring to my company customers and business each month that is worth at least two times whatever you want to be paid."

It is all about justifying your own employment. You either bring scarce and in-demand skills to an employer, or customers, or you bring some other benefit to the employer.

I absolutely agree that my offer would be MUCH better for the "investor" if he got share ownership in the company. But - his risk would be higher - at least if I simply merged his money into the greater "pot" of the company. Under my proposal, after paying in capital, he can move his 850,000 baht to his own personal bank account - I do not care - because he will be paying his salary from that money until the Phuket office makes enough to pay him (and that, only after initiating a flow of remittance back to Head Office in Bangkok). But - he is at least assured of receiving back 85% of his investment (less taxes).

If you have a good business idea, and paying customers lined up waiting to place orders with you - by all means, start your own company, and give yourself a job. But - you better have those customers lined up with checks in hand. Because if you start flat-footed here, you will lose your million baht very quickly - "burn rates" here are not trivial.

Well, I have the customers lined up for a Phuket office. But I lack the time and energy to open an operation there, and build its business base - in the conservative manner that I would take when investing using my own company's money. Because - I have no burning need or desire to be in Phuket. But lots of other people do have that burning desire. So - maybe they are willing to move under looser terms.

There is NOTHING like being an entrepreneurial founder of a business - the main investor - and coming to the SHOCKING realization that once you place a company into operation, it is like turning over an hourglass - with your capitalization money in the top chamber. Every minute of every day, your money is flowing out of the company - with absolutely no effort on your part. While you eat, sleep, play golf, money is flowing out of your company - for electic bills, rent, government fees, postage, phone bills, advertising, etc. - and on and on - a million ways. But - you know what - money NEVER flows back into the top of the hourglass effortlessly. As a matter of fact, to get money back into the top of the hourglass takes IMMENSE effort. You must:

Create a product or service to deliver

Market that product or service to attract customers

Negotiate the sale

Close the sale

Generate the product or service

Get it to the client

Get the client to realize that he has received your deliverable

Invoice the client

Get client to write the check

Pick up the check

Get check deposited in the bank

There are devious and dark forces active in the world that will do incredible things to cause at least one step of this simple chain of events to grind to a halt. If even one step gets disurupted, no sand enters the top of the hourglass - but sand NEVER stops flowing out.

So - in the Phuket office proposal I laid out - I'm the one fighting the hourglass sand demon early on - because the "investor" knows one thing - he has a fixed amount (850,000 baht) and one single cost item causing outflow - his own salary. I own all the other headaches of managing "sandflow" for that office.

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[wcr]

Indo-Siam

You didn't answer my question about your comment about not being limp wristed

[Butterfly]

Steve,

I think we all know you are running a legitimate business, and therefore the risk of you being a scam artist is very small. Your idea is kind of interesting and I could see why it could be an opportunity for some farangs.

However, you are approaching this as an "investor" opportunity. Like someone else put it, investment = equity, which is not the case here. There is no investment incentives or "interests" in investment terms in your deal. That does not mean your deal is not interesting.

I think you are also very demanding while denying the "investors" those same high demands you expect. What is it your want ? a passive actor or active ? 20 hours a week is pretty active in my book and you can't expect people not to be involved in the business decision process if they put that much hours in the business.

I understand perfectly the type of individual you are looking for, I think they are out there, but you need to correct the following to actually make sense:

- Ok, for the 1 million to pay salary of the "investor". It provides a "fast and quick" way to get a working permit and visa without the "incorporation" mess. We agree here. I see the "potential" interest in this alone.

- Ok, for the 100% financing of the staff and office, BUT only if he has a "side" business to legitimize, so you guys can share the office "resources" at all levels.

- Passive "investors" means NO HOURS worked. Let the guy get drunk in the bars or run his own business on the side. Don't involve him in your business. Keep that seperate. It will avoid future misunderstanding and possible tensions and overlaps of the 2 businesses.

Of course, I am assuming that there are no risks in terms of the money deposited in the accounts etc... that alone would add another dimension to the situation...

What you need, is a financing partner, not an "investor". Investors expect returns. Your financing partners can expect less in returns if he gets in return some concrete "incentives".

Just my input as an "investor" in Thailand

[Indo-Siam]

Following a meeting last evening, I now have agreement in principal to the program I described. It may take 60-90 days to launch the office - and with the individual not arriving for another six months.

But - at any rate - if anyone reading is one of the 12-15 inquiries I have turned away so far in 2004 - about company start-ups in Phuket - be advised that the Indo-Siam Group will soon be opening its doors in Phuket. We are happy to start discussions now, about supporting start-ups that will occur there on or after August 1st.

If anyone knows a sharp Thai office manager/operations type person in Phuket, who might like working for a small company that is involved in interesting work - I would welcome having such individuals be referred to me. My original Bangkok operations manager started with me at a salary of 18,000 baht per month, and now makes more than twice that amount New hire will come to Bangkok for a week or so, for training.

I also have a similar arrangement under discussion in regards to Chiang Mai - although I get only about half the number of inquiries about that location, as I do about Phuket.

Good luck to all!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartup.com

[Tornado]

good luck