What happens next with UK plan to breach Brexit divorce treaty?

[david555]

46 minutes ago, kingdong said:

what uk workers union rules? with a glut of labour from the eu over 2 million of them under the "freedom of movement" the unions here have no power.

So no " land of hope and glory" anyway ???

[Laughing Gravy]

13 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I'm simply tired of WW11 references in all these Brexit related forums, which I think are not relevant to these days or times. 

Almost as tired as people telling us Brits we were wrong, we didn't know what we voted for, we are less intelligent, the UK will be like North Korea, It doesn't matter that we were lied to getting into the EU (EEC), The referendum wasn't legally binding, we were lied to by the leave campaign..... the list is endless.

[Laughing Gravy]

11 hours ago, daejung said:

I am french and not angry, may be happy. Nobody is angry

You are new to these threads. Many, many TV posters are very angry, so you are excused as you have not followed these threads since 2014.

 

11 hours ago, daejung said:

UK never accepted the EU rules since 1973, always tried to slowdown europe unification and had a special status

I agree with this we do not consider ourselves as European. One reason we will never accept the Euro.

 

11 hours ago, daejung said:

Since you export what you fish to the european market, I guess you will have no choice but eating what you fish, whithout any deal

That is fine. How would you as french feel if the UK could come into France and have 60% of the farming space for food? I imagine you wouldn't be too happy. Well that's what the EU do.

https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2020/07/07/analysis-shows-eu-vessels-land-even-more-fish-from-uk-waters/

 

The is a big world outside the EU which I think you and many others forget. The French people I have spoken wish they had Frexit. In fact why wont the EU give everyone a vote to leave as they are such democratic loving people.  I think we all know that.

[Phulublub]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I agree with this we do not consider ourselves as European.

Speak for yourself, not for me. I am European, I am a British citizen, I am not English

 

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That is fine. How would you as french feel if the UK could come into France and have 60% of the farming space for food? I imagine you wouldn't be too happy. Well that's what the EU do.

https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2020/07/07/analysis-shows-eu-vessels-land-even-more-fish-from-uk-waters/

 

If the French fishermen had sold their rights to fish in their own waters - as many British fishermen did - then they would probably be content.

 

Or is this another of the early acts of the newly sovereign UK, to illegally remove fishing rights from those who lawfully hold them?

 

{H

 

[Opl]

5 hours ago, kingdong said:

 if it suits us,yes.

our word is our bond, if it suits us

OK, noted

[evadgib]

19 minutes ago, Opl said:

our word is our bond, if it suits us

OK, noted

FYI-

(The 'Rhubarb' brigade won't like this but it explains the situation pretty well which is why I have posted it. 'Content' rather than 'poster' pleaasse....& that includes the narrator in the clip!)

[david555]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You are new to these threads. Many, many TV posters are very angry, so you are excused as you have not followed these threads since 2014.

 

I agree with this we do not consider ourselves as European. One reason we will never accept the Euro.

 

That is fine. How would you as french feel if the UK could come into France and have 60% of the farming space for food? I imagine you wouldn't be too happy. Well that's what the EU do.

https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2020/07/07/analysis-shows-eu-vessels-land-even-more-fish-from-uk-waters/

 

The is a big world outside the EU which I think you and many others forget. The French people I have spoken wish they had Frexit. In fact why wont the EU give everyone a vote to leave as they are such democratic loving people.  I think we all know that.

Complaining and complaining ....for the fact your own goverment sold fish quotas for the lovely sweet money ....not ? 

Same as now breaking treaty ....signatures of British making of no trust or value ...

 

Being out of the E.U. but still full of envy that E.U. not give in on U.K...

Oh what bitter feelings it shows ....and it is even not yet 1 Januari 

[welovesundaysatspace]

 

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

In fact why wont the EU give everyone a vote to leave as they are such democratic loving people. 

The EU does. See Brexit. 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, Phulublub said:

Speak for yourself, not for me. I am European, I am a British citizen,

Well you are entitled to your opinion and who you want to identify with yourself. Where you born in the UK?

 

2 hours ago, Phulublub said:

I am not English

Well You can be Scottish, Welsh or from Northern Ireland or even one of the hundreds of thousands who were not born in the UK but have a British passport and call themselves a British citizen.

 

2 hours ago, Phulublub said:

If the French fishermen had sold their rights to fish in their own waters - as many British fishermen did - then they would probably be content.

The British government of that time gave them away. Yes we are now claiming them back. The point being allowing someone to take your food away from you is a stupid thing. Even the french wouldn't do that.

 

Retribution time.

[Laughing Gravy]

16 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

The EU does. See Brexit. 

 

Really everyone meaning the 26 other nations. Show me the evidence for that or are you trying to be funny, which you are clearly not or just factually wrong on all counts. We know which one, so no need to respond.

 

Even on the UK's referendum the EU asked he UK to hold another referendum, like they do in Holland or Ireland or ignore it. Keep voting until hey get the desired result.

[welovesundaysatspace]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Really everyone meaning the 26 other nations.

Every EU member states has the same rights as the UK exercised. They can leave at any time. They don’t even have to hold a referendum for it. It’s their own domestic business as a sovereign nation and member state. 
 

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Even on the UK's referendum the EU asked he UK to hold another referendum,

It clearly did not. 
 

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

like they do in Holland or Ireland or ignore it. Keep voting until hey get the desired result.

It clearly did not. 
 

You need to do your homework and read the treaties before posting false information like this. 

[kingdong]

7 hours ago, david555 said:

So no " land of hope and glory" anyway ???

yeah and it,ll start jan 1st 2021 when we,re free of the eu and financial obligations,hope the eu,s budgeted for no more U.K. contributions.

[kingdong]

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Every EU member states has the same rights as the UK exercised. They can leave at any time. They don’t even have to hold a referendum for it. It’s their own domestic business as a sovereign nation and member state. 
 

It clearly did not. 
 

It clearly did not. 
 

You need to do your homework and read the treaties before posting false information like this. 

like you do wiyh your big red bus obsession.

[welovesundaysatspace]

14 minutes ago, kingdong said:

like you do wiyh your big red bus obsession.

Not sure what you’re referring to and what that has to do with the fact that leaving the EU is each member state’s own business as a sovereign nation.  

[david555]

25 minutes ago, kingdong said:

yeah and it,ll start jan 1st 2021 when we,re free of the eu and financial obligations,hope the eu,s budgeted for no more U.K. contributions.

It was your own gov. That needed extension as they where not ready yet ( as now still not ready ....???? ) 

 

But i thought you where out already ....didn't Farage decleared independance day last time ??...????

 

Still hanging on E.U. skirt ...parmentating ...????

 

[RayC]

7 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 

I agree with this we do not consider ourselves European.

I am a (sauf) Londoner, English, British, European. The label that fits most comfortablely depends on the circumstances. You may not consider yourself European. You don't speak for me or a large number of UK citizens.

 

And before you ask (not that it should matter):  I'm white, borne to working class parents, and brought up on a council estate.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

FYI-

(The 'Rhubarb' brigade won't like this but it explains the situation pretty well which is why I have posted it. 'Content' rather than 'poster' pleaasse....& that includes the narrator in the clip!)

I saw it through to the end. I disagree; it explained nothing. A broad generalisation but, in essence, the content consisted of Mr. Taylor - who is he? - reading out clauses from the 'Internal Market Bill', and then "explaining" that the clause was necessary because you can't trust the EU.

 

For that reason, I assume that Mr. Taylor didn't support the Withdrawal Agreement (WA) in the first place. However, that's not the point. The WA was signed. This video does not justify why it should be broken. Surely, the only explanations are either 1) Johnson doesn't think international Agreements are binding and/or 2) he didn't realise what he was signing and, somehow, that makes the WA null and void.

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You are new to these threads. Many, many TV posters are very angry, so you are excused as you have not followed these threads since 2014.

 

I agree with this we do not consider ourselves as European. One reason we will never accept the Euro.

 

That is fine. How would you as french feel if the UK could come into France and have 60% of the farming space for food? I imagine you wouldn't be too happy. Well that's what the EU do.

https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2020/07/07/analysis-shows-eu-vessels-land-even-more-fish-from-uk-waters/

 

The is a big world outside the EU which I think you and many others forget. The French people I have spoken wish they had Frexit. In fact why wont the EU give everyone a vote to leave as they are such democratic loving people.  I think we all know that.

Maybe time to look also in some other ( British) publications ?

Eur social survay member EU.webp

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, RayC said:

I saw it through to the end. I disagree; it explained nothing. A broad generalisation but, in essence, the content consisted of Mr. Taylor - who is he? - reading out clauses from the 'Internal Market Bill', and then "explaining" that the clause was necessary because you can't trust the EU.

 

For that reason, I assume that Mr. Taylor didn't support the Withdrawal Agreement (WA) in the first place. However, that's not the point. The WA was signed. This video does not justify why it should be broken. Surely, the only explanations are either 1) Johnson doesn't think international Agreements are binding and/or 2) he didn't realise what he was signing and, somehow, that makes the WA null and void.

Thanks for watching. Understanding the situation is entirely down to the individual regardless of which side they happen to agree with. I hope the Ponti's find it useful too ????

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed

[7by7]

22 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

EU  spincters are twitching as they fear the worst of WTO rules and no payments from uk

 

Tell us, oh wise one, how will the UK having to trade on WTO terms hurt the EU?

[Phulublub]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The British government of that time gave them away. Yes we are now claiming them back. The point being allowing someone to take your food away from you is a stupid thing. Even the french wouldn't do that.

Indeed they did - to British fishermen, who sold them. 

 

If you give something away, you no longer have legal ownership of that thing., so nothing to "claim" back.

 

PH

[Phulublub]

9 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Almost as tired as people telling us Brits we were wrong, we didn't know what we voted for, we are less intelligent, the UK will be like North Korea, It doesn't matter that we were lied to getting into the EU (EEC), The referendum wasn't legally binding, we were lied to by the leave campaign..... the list is endless.

Clearly, in your case and in the specific area of UK fishing quotas, you did NOT know what you were voting for as your posts here show you think the UK has some sort of claim on quotas the Government gave to British fishermen who then sold them.

 

PH

[7by7]

22 hours ago, Loiner said:

Yes, the Lords is stuffed full of Remainers isn't it. The Act had to be passed through to Get Brexit Done. It officially was on 31st January 2020. Had it not, we would have still be led a merry dance by you Remainer event today.

 The Lords can delay and amend a Bill, they cannot refuse to pass it.

 

The Lords did send the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill back to the Commons on the 21st January with some amendments; which the Commons rejected and sent the Bill back to the Lords the next day. This time the Lords passed it and the Bill received Royal Assent on the 23rd January.

 

The Lords can reject a Bill up to three times, after that the Speaker can by pass the Lords and send it straight to the Monarch for Royal Assent; which, of course, she has to give.

 

So even had the Lords gone down this route, it would only have delayed the Bill, and therefore the Act, by a few days.

 

22 hours ago, Loiner said:

Really, Really. Did you miss what was happening?
Now Boris is overriding the trick parts the Remainers and EU had left in there. Come next January he could even ditch the whole thing. 

Like all Bills, this one lapsed when the General Election was called.

 

The parts of the Bill which Remainers in Parliament had added were all removed by Johnson when the Bill was presented again to Parliament after the election.

 

The main part which Boris now wants to remove, the customs border down the Irish sea between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, is something the woman you lot accuse of being an arch Remainer, Theresa may, said was something no British Prime Minister could ever contemplate!

 

Johnson not only contemplated it, he made sure that it was put into the agreement! 

 

No tricks by the Remainers in Parliament who don't have the necessary number of seats to so do, even if they wanted to.

 

No tricks by the EU, who acted in good faith.

 

All the tricks, deceit and lies have come from Number 10.

 

Johnson could unilaterally ditch all of the agreement at anytime; if he his happy for this country to be seen as an untrustworthy pariah by the rest of the world. 

 

You seem to want that, but, for all his faults, I don't believe that Johnson does.

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

14 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Clearly, in your case and in the specific area of UK fishing quotas, you did NOT know what you were voting for as your posts here show you think the UK has some sort of claim on quotas the Government gave to British fishermen who then sold them.

 

PH

I think it is probably hopeless. I have tried to explain this to those who drone on about fishing quotas time and again on these threads. We had them, the rights were distributed mainly to the five large owners of UK fishing. Over 50% of these rights were sold by them to continental fishing companies. 

 

We can negotiate all we like, it is not going to get us back something we have sold - why should it. 

[Loiner]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 The Lords can delay and amend a Bill, they cannot refuse to pass it.

 

The Lords did send the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill back to the Commons on the 21st January with some amendments; which the Commons rejected and sent the Bill back to the Lords the next day. This time the Lords passed it and the Bill received Royal Assent on the 23rd January.

 

The Lords can reject a Bill up to three times, after that the Speaker can by pass the Lords and send it straight to the Monarch for Royal Assent; which, of course, she has to give.

 

So even had the Lords gone down this route, it would only have delayed the Bill, and therefore the Act, by a few days.

 

Like all Bills, this one lapsed when the General Election was called.

 

The parts of the Bill which Remainers in Parliament had added were all removed by Johnson when the Bill was presented again to Parliament after the election.

 

The main part which Boris now wants to remove, the customs border down the Irish sea between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, is something the woman you lot accuse of being an arch Remainer, Theresa may, said was something no British Prime Minister could ever contemplate!

 

Johnson not only contemplated it, he made sure that it was put into the agreement! 

 

No tricks by the Remainers in Parliament who don't have the necessary number of seats to so do, even if they wanted to.

 

No tricks by the EU, who acted in good faith.

 

All the tricks, deceit and lies have come from Number 10.

 

Johnson could unilaterally ditch all of the agreement at anytime; if he his happy for this country to be seen as an untrustworthy pariah by the rest of the world. 

 

You seem to want that, but, for all his faults, I don't believe that Johnson does.

 

 

So Boris out-tricked the Remainers and EU! Well done Boris.

The IMB will sort out their attempts to further split NI from the UK. Now we just need to ditch whatever other parts of the WA could be used against the UK. 

[7by7]

22 hours ago, Loiner said:

Then stop bringing Ireland into the Brexit negotiations. You cannot be the EU's lever to get their rules in place, and possibly even your own republican hopes closer. Stick on your own side of the border.

 Showing your ignorance again.

 

Ireland is part of this because of the Good Friday Agreement; because of the land border between North and South.

 

Interesting that so many Brexiteers, including you, who frequently proclaim their firm love of democracy, seem willing for the democratic wish of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK thrown away; willing to force them into the Republic against their will!

[Loiner]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Showing your ignorance again.

 

Ireland is part of this because of the Good Friday Agreement; because of the land border between North and South.

 

Interesting that so many Brexiteers, including you, who frequently proclaim their firm love of democracy, seem willing for the democratic wish of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland to remain part of the UK thrown away; willing to force them into the Republic against their will!

The IMB prevents the EU from trying to further split NI away from the UK. It's the EU and Republicans trying to abuse the WA as leverage in this, plus now Biden meddling too. Shameful of these people. Only Boris can save the democratic wish of the majority of the people of Ni to remain part of the UK. I wouldn't have placed you as a Unionist - are you playing devil's advocate or trolling? 

[7by7]

9 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Almost as tired as people telling us Brits we were wrong, we didn't know what we voted for, we are less intelligent, the UK will be like North Korea, It doesn't matter that we were lied to getting into the EU (EEC), The referendum wasn't legally binding, we were lied to by the leave campaign..... the list is endless.

 Most of the people who are telling all this are, like me, British!

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

<snip>

The British government of that time gave them away. Yes we are now claiming them back.

The British government did not give our fishing quota rights away. The British government allocated those quota rights to British fleet owners.

 

The majority of those British fleet owners then sold those quota rights to foreign, EU fleet owners.

 

Privatising the seas: how the UK turned fishing rights into a commodity