The big bike Thai DL.

[Kwasaki]

Wondered if there's any news on whats happening.

I have always had my big bikes in wife's name it was so much easier to sell and buy.

 

The big bike licence govt is debating has got me thinking it will be best I get the big bike I have now put in my name.

 

I guess then if the big bike DL does become an additional DL to my present one I will be able to obtain one showing the ownership of the green book of a big bike in my name.

 

I think this big bike DL thing is good, I like govt to limit use of scoots as well over 155 say.

Since these bigger scoots of 250 or more have come out I have seen so much more people riding them who just look like accidents waiting to happen. 

 

[eisfeld]

I don't think the DL has much to do with the green book. The DL doesn't show what bike you own and the green book doesn't show if you have a license. One can even own bikes and cars without having a drivers license.

 

So regarding the new big bike license I don't think it makes any difference if the bike is in your name or your wife's. I have all my bikes in my name, don't find it much hassle really. Just needed to get one immigration paper for registration or when I'll sell but I usually keep my bikes for 5+ years.

[Kwasaki]

23 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

I don't think the DL has much to do with the green book. The DL doesn't show what bike you own and the green book doesn't show if you have a license. One can even own bikes and cars without having a drivers license.

 

So regarding the new big bike license I don't think it makes any difference if the bike is in your name or your wife's. I have all my bikes in my name, don't find it much hassle really. Just needed to get one immigration paper for registration or when I'll sell but I usually keep my bikes for 5+ years.

Fair call and yeah I get you, what I thought was if I have valid Thai motorcycle DL and my name is in a green book of a 900cc bike, a Thai big bike license would be made available to me.

If they make everybody with big bikes take tests OK but can you imagine the added problems at DLT's. 

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Fair call and yeah I get you, what I thought was if I have valid Thai motorcycle DL and my name is in a green book of a 900cc bike, a Thai big bike license would be made available to me.

If they make everybody with big bikes take tests OK but can you imagine the added problems at DLT's. 

Unfortunately I think owning a big bike and having years of experience will not interest the DLT.  I think they will do it like the current licenses. If you have a license from your home country that they recognize as allowing big bikes (EU class A for example) then you can get a Thai big bike license without much hassle. And if not then you will have to do special tests. I am actually very convinced that they will partner with for example the Honda Safety Riding Parks which already have riding schools to make those big bike licenses tests. Thinking about it, I would probably enjoy going there for a day to do some learning and tests. I don't mind it really and I always meet nice and interesting people at places like that.

Edited September 18, 2020 by eisfeld

[Swiss1960]

OP, you write "I like govt to limit use of scoots as well over 155 say. Since these bigger scoots of 250 or more .."

You did read, that the Thai govt has declared "Big" to be 400cc and more?

[Kwasaki]

9 hours ago, eisfeld said:

If you have a license from your home country that they recognize as allowing big bikes (EU class A for example) then you can get a Thai big bike license without much hassle.

With my valid full UK DL with category 'A' for motorcycle shown on it is how I got my Thai motorcycle DL that one of my points.

However I have been in Thailand 15 years so my UK is out of date but I still kept it.

As for having to do a test OK I would look forward to a laugh. ????

[Kwasaki]

9 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

OP, you write "I like govt to limit use of scoots as well over 155 say. Since these bigger scoots of 250 or more .."

You did read, that the Thai govt has declared "Big" to be 400cc and more?

That's my point 400cc for bikes has been the cut point as I see it with dealers going back years.

Honda put out in Thailand a 299 cc scooter now I think a 350 cc is going to be available.

They should be classed as big bikes IMHO.

Letting kids on CBR250's is crazy enough.

[eisfeld]

10 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

That's my point 400cc for bikes has been the cut point as I see it with dealers going back years.

Honda put out in Thailand a 299 cc scooter now I think a 350 cc is going to be available.

They should be classed as big bikes IMHO.

Letting kids on CBR250's is crazy enough.

 

There's the usual enforcement issue though. No matter what new regulations are introduced, if 4 kiddies can ride on a motorbike without helmets, license or any training/education without punishment (incl. their parents) then all bets are off.

[richard_smith237]

I wonder if people will be allowed to test for the ‘Big Licence’ on a smaller bike ?

i.e. Take the test on a 150cc or 300cc machine before upsizing to a larger bike. 

Or will Thai Logic take hold and we will be told we have to be riding a big bike before we are allowed to take a test to allow us to ride a big bike !!!!! 

 

 

I think the enforcement of this will become a farce. I wonder if or when this regulation actually rolls out the BiB will simply be stopping those on big bikes knowing the odds that most won’t have the ‘big bike licence’ - that reason enough to get the License as soon as they are rolled out... and of course, as Kwasaki wrote, actually doing the test could be entertaining. 

[bprinceuk]

In the UK, you must be 21 or over, and if you take your test on a bike under 500cc, after passing the test you are limited to I believe its 44hp for two years. 

[Kwasaki]

41 minutes ago, bprinceuk said:

In the UK, you must be 21 or over, and if you take your test on a bike under 500cc, after passing the test you are limited to I believe its 44hp for two years. 

Yeah I guess that's where I'm coming from so to speak. 

Reminds me my youngest son at 16 yr he got his UK provisional motorbike license he sent off for it early.

I got him the 50cc bike he was allowed to ride on the road but he had to attend a test place first forget what it's called, he hated the bike he could run faster. ????

 

He had been riding bikes since he was 3yr,  after 1yr he could get a 125 which made him happier. 

After 2 years he could apply for a full license and when he passed his UK test he could go to a 600 but restricted I think for 1 yr and when he got to a certain age he could ride anything. 

 

As said don't think anything like that would work in Thailand the road police would have to work too hard. ????

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Kwasaki

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

I wonder if people will be allowed to test for the ‘Big Licence’ on a smaller bike ?

i.e. Take the test on a 150cc or 300cc machine before upsizing to a larger bike. 

Or will Thai Logic take hold and we will be told we have to be riding a big bike before we are allowed to take a test to allow us to ride a big bike !!!!! 

 

 

I think the enforcement of this will become a farce. I wonder if or when this regulation actually rolls out the BiB will simply be stopping those on big bikes knowing the odds that most won’t have the ‘big bike licence’ - that reason enough to get the License as soon as they are rolled out... and of course, as Kwasaki wrote, actually doing the test could be entertaining. 

If they partner with riding schools then it'll be pretty much like in developed countries: you learn on a big bike and you test on a big bike.

 

I disagree with the big bike riders having high odds of not having that license. In my experience of riding more than 150,000 km all around Thailand on big bikes alone and in groups, the vast majority of times the police will not focus on the big bike riders and stop/check them as most are wearing helmets, have a proper license and the bike insured+taxed. There's nothing to fine them for. Also plenty of big bike riders are not exactly from the lower layers of society. I've ridden with guys that turned out to be lawyers, high up gov employees and generals. They will check plenty of scooters though as the chance of being able to fine them is very very high and low chance of hitting someone that can pressure back. Probably more than 50% chance of encountering an illegal scooter rider in some areas. In all those travels I got stopped and checked maybe 4 times on my big bike but I went through many checkpoints and just waved on.

[Agusts]

I think I read somewhere the new requirement is supposed to come in force from beginning of next year, but only a few months to go, no one knows anything about it...

 

It's a great money grab tool for the bibs...! Don't compare with before, now there is this new big bike license requirement...

 

@Kwasaki are you jealous of Forza riders now that they don't need this new big bike license.... ! lol... ????

 

To be honest a 300 or 400 are just as bad in being ridden dangerously, it's hard to draw the line somewhere but they have to pick a number...

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Agusts

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Agusts said:

 

@Kwasaki are you jealous of Forza riders now that they don't need this new big bike license.... ! lol... ????

 

To be honest a 300 or 400 are just as bad in being ridden dangerously, it's hard to draw the line somewhere but they have to pick a number...

 

No not jealous really ???? just find that now some Thai riders have these more powerful scoots they try prove something when on the road from taking off from the lights with me.

 

I just let them get on with and stay away from them I don't want to encourage them doing something stupid to try and beat me. 

[eisfeld]

3 hours ago, Agusts said:

To be honest a 300 or 400 are just as bad in being ridden dangerously, it's hard to draw the line somewhere but they have to pick a number...

I agree. The biggest problem is the safety. Kids can't assess the risks and many parents don't care. This is where it has to start first.

 

BTW there is also a 47HP limit. The bike has to have >= 400cc AND >= 47hp. And under 18 they are limited to 110cc. It's actually, dare I say, sensible.

 

The odd 47hp comes probably from the EU A2 class which has the exact same number, which I guess comes from 35kW.

 

The CBR500R btw has exactly 46.9HP specified so one can ride the "500" range from Honda without being required to get that new big bike license.

[Kwasaki]

The powers that be per'se that come up with these ideas are usually people that have no idea or knowledge of motorcycles.

The tech of 4 stoke bikes nowadays can make a 250cc motorbike or scoots even more so IMO a killer machine. 

[Agusts]

@Kwasaki that was me at the light, damn I thought I beat the 900 to at least 80kph... lol... ????

 

I didn't know there was a 47hp rule too, so is it    >400cc "and" >47hp   ?  or is it "OR" in the middle...!?

[eisfeld]

57 minutes ago, Agusts said:

@Kwasaki that was me at the light, damn I thought I beat the 900 to at least 80kph... lol... ????

 

I didn't know there was a 47hp rule too, so is it    >400cc "and" >47hp   ?  or is it "OR" in the middle...!?

>= and "AND". That's what "some newspaper" said:

 

Quote

motorcycles with an engine of 400cc or bigger which produce at least 47 horsepower are treated by law as big bikes.

 

 

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

The tech of 4 stoke bikes nowadays can make a 250cc motorbike or scoots even more so IMO a killer machine. 

Sometimes I see some Honda NSR 150 or 250 on the streets of Phuket. These two strokes are ferocious. Probably also tuned. They can smoke my comparataively tame CBR500R. I would never let a kid come close to those rockets ????

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Agusts said:

@Kwasaki that was me at the light, damn I thought I beat the 900 to at least 80kph... lol... ????

 

I didn't know there was a 47hp rule too, so is it    >400cc "and" >47hp   ?  or is it "OR" in the middle...!?

You wish ???? a 900 in 1st gear at 80kph is not far from ticking over. ????

 

Dunno about hp rules I passed my UK motorcycle over 50 years ago and also an advanced motorcycle test a bit later on.

[tgw]

9 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

That's my point 400cc for bikes has been the cut point as I see it with dealers going back years.

Honda put out in Thailand a 299 cc scooter now I think a 350 cc is going to be available.

They should be classed as big bikes IMHO.

Letting kids on CBR250's is crazy enough.

300 cc vespas have been around for a long time

[grego49]

8 hours ago, Agusts said:

I think I read somewhere the new requirement is supposed to come in force from beginning of next year, but only a few months to go, no one knows anything about it...

 

It's a great money grab tool for the bibs...! Don't compare with before, now there is this new big bike license requirement...

 

@Kwasaki are you jealous of Forza riders now that they don't need this new big bike license.... ! lol... ????

 

To be honest a 300 or 400 are just as bad in being ridden dangerously, it's hard to draw the line somewhere but they have to pick a number...

 

From what i read when you renew your current bike you will have to change to their big bike licence,my old steed is 400cc in my green book but 398cc on the specs will see how i go with a copy of my specs,,,,

[eisfeld]

9 minutes ago, grego49 said:

From what i read when you renew your current bike you will have to change to their big bike licence,my old steed is 400cc in my green book but 398cc on the specs will see how i go with a copy of my specs,,,,

The bike registration is unrelated to the drivers license. When renewing the road tax and compulsory insurance they will not look at your license. And when renewing your license they don't look what bikes you own.

 

The 400cc Honda Steeds as far as I can see have less than 47HP (31HP) so they would not be considered a big bike.

Edited September 19, 2020 by eisfeld

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

300 cc vespas have been around for a long time

I'm talking what's available now in Thailand in the way of cc scoots that were not available years ago in quantity.

Vespa in Thailand are a joke 117 kph my 108cc Airblade does 100 kph and I just think Thais are stupid to buy a Vespa anyhow.

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

I'm talking what's available now in Thailand in the way of cc scoots that were not available years ago in quantity.

Vespa in Thailand are a joke 117 kph my 108cc Airblade does 100 kph and I just think Thais are stupid to buy a Vespa anyhow.

you were talking about cylinder capacity. Vespa has 300cc.

cc, speed or perceived intelligence of the vehicle's buyer, choose your criterion to discuss and stick to it.

[Kwasaki]

10 hours ago, tgw said:

you were talking about cylinder capacity. Vespa has 300cc.

cc, speed or perceived intelligence of the vehicle's buyer, choose your criterion to discuss and stick to it.

My thread I'll post whatever I like and discuss whatever I like.

You don't have to read it. 

A Vespa 300 is no comparison to Xmax or Forza and the latter has no comparison to big bikes. 

The discussion is about big bike license for Thailand to introduce it because of so called powerful big bike accidents is daft when 250 & 350 bikes are available and are just as dangerous.

Morning powerful scooters IMHO are dangerous more so than big bikes. 

[MartinL]

21 hours ago, eisfeld said:

 

BTW there is also a 47HP limit. The bike has to have >= 400cc AND >= 47hp. ... It's actually, dare I say, sensible.

 

The police are going to need a database of bikes and their power outputs to be able to put this into action properly. Bike A; 500cc, 30hp - 'big bike' licence not needed. Bike B; 500cc, 48hp - need BB licence. Chances are, on the roadside, cops will only see '500cc' and base their decision on that so that Bike A owner will risk being nicked when he really shouldn't be.

 

If based solely on engine capacity, it'd be quite easy to implement. But is that "47hp" an indicated horsepower (at crankshaft) or brake horsepower (at rear wheel)? I'd guess the latter but you never know. What about a 399cc bike with 48hp indicated?

 

Can of worms in the making.

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by MartinL

[Hi Tea]

On 9/19/2020 at 11:50 AM, richard_smith237 said:

I wonder if people will be allowed to test for the ‘Big Licence’ on a smaller bike ?

i.e. Take the test on a 150cc or 300cc machine before upsizing to a larger bike. 

Or will Thai Logic take hold and we will be told we have to be riding a big bike before we are allowed to take a test to allow us to ride a big bike !!!!! 

"Thai logic", as you disparagingly refer to it, has already covered your point.  When the announcement about the new licence was made it was confirmed that the big bike test would have to be taken on a sub-400cc bike before the licence would be issued. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Hi Tea

[ThailandRyan]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

My thread I'll post whatever I like and discuss whatever I like.

You don't have to read it. 

A Vespa 300 is no comparison to Xmax or Forza and the latter has no comparison to big bikes. 

The discussion is about big bike license for Thailand to introduce it because of so called powerful big bike accidents is daft when 250 & 350 bikes are available and are just as dangerous.

Morning powerful scooters IMHO are dangerous more so than big bikes. 

Just looked at the insurance for my XMax 300 and the insurance company classifies it as a Big bike under Body Type, so it really makes me wonder sometimes as to classifications here in Thailand.  In the US what is considered a Scooter, or Maxi Scooter here in Thailand is classified as a Motorcycle as long as it is 150 CC's or more, under 150 CC's they classify it as a Motor Driven Cycle, and then there is the Moped classification which has pedals as well as a motor.  All these need for the operator to have a Class M (Motorcycle License).  However the Class M has either a M1 category or a M2 category, with the M1 license for Motorcycles and are unrestricted from 150cc's and up, while the M2 license has restrictions which are located on the back of the California DL.  

 

My CDL is for Class C and M1 and says No Restriction on the rear.  With that license I walked in and out of the DLT here in Thailand in 3 hours and 45 minutes with both Licenses, only testing required was the 4 physical ability tests, and 45 minute video.  I asked the gal that was processing my licenses about the new big bike classification license proposed for Motorcycles, and she indicated that because my CDL was with No restrictions she was unsure what would be needed in the future, and had no idea if the name of the license would change from Private Motorcycle Driving License to Big Bike, or whether they would use a classification system like they do elsewhere.  In her view she said she did not have a view one way or another because as she put it "All motorbikes are dangerous if you do not know how to ride" 

 

* I forgot to add that the Three Wheeled Motorcycles, such as a Trike, or the new Can Am style bike with the two wheels up front can be ridden with an Automobile license or Class C in California, unknown what they classify those 3 wheel bikes here in Thailand as.

Edited September 20, 2020 by ThailandRyan

[Felt 35]

????I got my motorcycle license 40 years ago back home and its still valid just as my car license, but wonder how that will turn out with this new regulation if I find out I want to get me a big bike at old age. ????

Felt.

[ThailandRyan]

32 minutes ago, Hi Tea said:

"Thai logic", as you disparagingly refer to it, has already covered your point.  When the announcement about the new licence was made it was confirmed that the big bike test would have to be taken on a sub-400cc bike before the licence would be issued. 

I think it would be interesting to watch a Ducati Rider take the driving course test at the DLT, especially riding the raised curb.  Be fun in the slalom however.  I watched the course for about 30 minutes when I was up in Udon Thani getting my first license years ago, and had to laugh at the sheer number of riders who could not keep the bike upright because they dropped the front wheel off of the curb, or on the hill stop they could not stop and start again without falling over.