6 hours ago, webfact said:

White House spokeswoman Sarah Matthews said Trump's advisers sometimes disagree, and that the president makes policy decisions based on all the information he receives.

 

26 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

ROFLMAO

Perfectly true though.  He receives information on the state of his businesses and personal interests, and then makes policy decisions based on that.

6 hours ago, webfact said:

The head of a top U.S. government health agency contradicted President Donald Trump upbeat assessment of the coronavirus pandemic, saying "We're nowhere near the end," NBC News reported on Monday.

 

But but but... the Donald told the world months ago that the U.S. would be done with the CV back in the spring.  And everyone believed that bald-faced lie, right?  

 

As for Redfield, I have mixed feelings.

 

On one side, Redfield more than amply deserves to be fired as CDC director. He undoubtedly has been complicit in Trump's lies and perversion of the failed U.S. CV response. And his latest comments reported here weren't apparently intentionally public ones, but instead, private phone call ones that were overheard and reported by NBC. So in other words, Redfield didn't actually intend for his honest CV assessment to be made public.

 

On the other side, were Redfield to get dumped by Trump right now, he'd probably be replaced with some even more partisan political hack who'd be totally beholden to Trump regardless of what his/her own CDC medical experts and scientific expertise suggest.

 

At this point, the only good cure for this infection of ignorance, the politicizing and perversion of public health policies, and this administration's anti-science/anti-facts stance is to dump Trump and his Republican Senate cronies in the November election.

 

23 minutes ago, rebekkahr said:

Before you get too wedded to your support of Redfield you might want to go to the Controversies section

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_R._Redfield

 

I'm well aware he isn't a saint and I never said I'm wedded to support of Redfield. 

1 hour ago, spacex said:

Wasn't the whole idea initially to flatten the curve?  Somehow it has gotten to eliminating the virus which will never happen, vaccine or no vaccine.  Australia must be loving the idea of eliminating the virus and being locked down for months at a time. 

Not quite.

I think there was a realistic hope in the earlier days of this that the virus might eventually be eliminated through aggressive global mitigation and an eventual vaccine.

But at this point as mitigation has not worked so well globally (Thailand is an exception) the wide consensus of experts now is that the best hope with a vaccine is a high level of control short of global elimination.

Edited September 29, 20205 yr by Jingthing

The CDC has lost a lot of credibility world wide, may never be the same again..

40 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But at this point as mitigation has not worked so well globally (Thailand is an exception) the wide consensus of experts now is that the best hope with a vaccine is a high level of control short of global elimination.

 

I believe, Redfield recently testified to Congress that the U.S. CV pandemic could be brought under control and largely limited within several months IF Americans would adopt a universal mask wear approach.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007344183/redfield-cdc-masks.html

 

Thanks to Trump's consistent virus denying and encouraging and promoting the loon anti-science fringes, however, that sadly is never going to happen at this point....

 

 

Edited September 29, 20205 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

36 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

The CDC has lost a lot of credibility world wide, may never be the same again..

 

Quote

 

CDC’s credibility is eroded by internal blunders and external attacks as coronavirus vaccine campaigns loom

 

For decades, the agency stood at the forefront of fighting disease outbreaks. This time, it’s dealing with a crisis of its own.

...

The agency’s response to the worst public health crisis in a century — the coronavirus pandemic — has been marked by technical blunders and botched messaging. The agency has endured false accusations and interference by Trump administration political appointees. Worst of all, the CDC has experienced a loss of institutional credibility at a time when the nation desperately needs to know whom to trust.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/28/cdc-under-attack/

 

A specific concern about the US that I have is that an eventual vaccine won't be as effective as it could be.

 

Even if Biden wins

 

 

Because 

 

Intensively polarized politics about anything related to the virus

 

Conspiracy theories spreading much more than the virus

 

An established anti vaccine contingent aggravated by the legitimate concerns that the eventual vaccine would have been rushed 

 

American culture of expecting instant results. Even though a vaccine would require large participation and many months to make a difference in the population I predict that soon after it is released Americans will mostly abandon mitigation measures such as masks. 

 

 

A conspiracy theory post and several replies have been removed.

 

8 hours ago, Paiman said:

 

The target is set to absolute control.

 

Still a long way to go. 

From the flat earth corner?

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Not quite.

I think there was a realistic hope in the earlier days of this that the virus might eventually be eliminated through aggressive global mitigation and an eventual vaccine.

But at this point as mitigation has not worked so well globally (Thailand is an exception) the wide consensus of experts now is that the best hope with a vaccine is a high level of control short of global elimination.

My opinion, for what its worth, is it will never be eliminated, it is a member of the SARS family (which is expanding), like the flu, there is no known human immunity from any of this family of viruses. Eventually we will just have to learn to live with it. Vaccines may help somewhat but like the influenza vaccines will have to be updated every year. As doctors are getting better at treating it it won't be as nearly as deadly for some groups as it was. It can be seen that the number of people with the virus has risen rapidly but the death rates seem to be rising very slowly.

22 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

My opinion, for what its worth, is it will never be eliminated, it is a member of the SARS family (which is expanding), like the flu, there is no known human immunity from any of this family of viruses. Eventually we will just have to learn to live with it. Vaccines may help somewhat but like the influenza vaccines will have to be updated every year. As doctors are getting better at treating it it won't be as nearly as deadly for some groups as it was. It can be seen that the number of people with the virus has risen rapidly but the death rates seem to be rising very slowly.

Your opinion as I already stated that at this point it will never be eliminated is currently the mainstream scientific opinion. But that doesn't mean that it will continue to be a pandemic. It can potentially be greatly limited. It's unknown yet whether this will need to be an annual new vaccine type thing as for seasonal flus or whether the current vaccines being developed can achieve the control goals with one or two doses as soon as available. 

Edited September 29, 20205 yr by Jingthing

Herd immunity is not going to be achieved with Covid-19.  First, we have no idea how long immunity lasts once you get the infection and recover.  Most evidence is that it is limited to relatively short period of times.   If the immunity wears off, then reinfection makes the herd constantly not immune.   

Second, every child born is a new member of the herd who has no immunity.   This means the virus has a nice place to seed and host itself.   

 

No disease has been eliminated with herd immunity that did not include a vaccine.  Even then, we have only managed to eliminate two diseases, smallpox and rinderpest.  

 

 

17 minutes ago, Credo said:

Herd immunity is not going to be achieved with Covid-19.  First, we have no idea how long immunity lasts once you get the infection and recover.  Most evidence is that it is limited to relatively short period of times.   If the immunity wears off, then reinfection makes the herd constantly not immune.   

Second, every child born is a new member of the herd who has no immunity.   This means the virus has a nice place to seed and host itself.   

 

No disease has been eliminated with herd immunity that did not include a vaccine.  Even then, we have only managed to eliminate two diseases, smallpox and rinderpest.  

 

 

We never developed herd immunity against the "normal" flu.

Every year again virologists have to guess what mixture to put in flu vaccins.

 

Covid is here to stay.....

 

A clear explanation:

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200902/how-effective-is-the-flu-vaccine

That's the flu. This isn't a flu. Assuming vaccines are coming it isn't known yet whether this will eventually be like the flu vaccine where there is a different vaccine for each year's seasonal flu or not. No need at this point to make any assumptions either way. 

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That's the flu. This isn't a flu. Assuming vaccines are coming it isn't known yet whether this will eventually be like the flu vaccine where there is a different vaccine for each year's seasonal flu or not. No need at this point to make any assumptions either way. 

True, it isn't a flue, but the virus is related.

True, we can not assume anything at this point, too many unanswered questions.

 

But what are the chances that covid will just disappear thanks to a not yet existing vaccine?

What % of the population will accept to be vaccinated? More than with the flue vaccine?

 

The most realistic prediction I think is that we will have to live with flu AND covid, and let's be optimistic and hope that both will be brought under control.

18 hours ago, Damual Travesty said:

This is simply not true.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-00451-5

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/media-resources/science-in-5/episode-1

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/viruses-dont-just-go-away-the-toll-of-reaching-herd-immunity-without-a-covid-19-vaccine

 

Please read these articles carefully. Heard immunity, even with a vaccine is what the goal would be. I have no time for people like you who come here and post a blanket statement like that as if you are a Doctor who specializes in the field. There is DEBATE DEBATE DEBATE around this subject not by politicians or those with an axe to grind on the right or left but my medical and science professionals. Much debate. People who come here and post words like yours however are trying to grind an political axe.

 

I am not sure what you think the future is going to be, If no immunity is ever going to be possible then what future do you envision? A lock-down that never ends? The virus goes away ? No such virus with all the possible mutations never returns? I could go on, but as has been said, everything is a matter of trade-offs, and society is suffering considerably from further lock-down, and I think we have not even seen the worst of the economic fallout. That translates to very damaged human beings resulting from over zealous attempts at achieving zero.

Have you noticed there are countries that have been successful in halting the virus?  Those countries are open ????

Look it up.  The simplest way is to wear a mask and keep your hands clean until there is a vaccine-at least in developed countries.

it’s not complicated ????

I read of the people who think that herd immunity is the way to go with this corona virus.  The USA has lost over 200 thousand, so far, with herd immunity it will be over 1 or 2 million, is this what some posters want?  
I sure do not and I only have a few relatives that live in the USA. I also think that Trump trying to get a convenient vaccine before the November election is a false hope as well.   The USA will be toxic for a few years if they do not get the virus under control, and with their present attitude and high numbers they are not getting the numbers down, look at NYs new recent spike in numbers alone..

Geezer

8 hours ago, Redline said:

Have you noticed there are countries that have been successful in halting the virus?  Those countries are open ????

Look it up.  The simplest way is to wear a mask and keep your hands clean until there is a vaccine-at least in developed countries.

it’s not complicated ????

Which countries? Please name a few.

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Which countries? Please name a few.

I'm not here to do research for you~subscribe to a coronavirus newsletter~there are many~they send you updates daily.  

7 hours ago, Redline said:

I'm not here to do research for you~subscribe to a coronavirus newsletter~there are many~they send you updates daily.  

 

7 hours ago, Redline said:

I'm not here to do research for you~subscribe to a coronavirus newsletter~there are many~they send you updates daily.  

555