Would Thailand be a happier place with no international tourists?

[Promula]

15 minutes ago, khunjeff said:

I was living here almost 30 years ago, and there certainly were not "very few international tourists". There were more than ten million a year even back then, which, while a drop in the bucket compared to (pre-pandemic) today, was still an awful lot of visitors.

 

 

5 million, not 10 million.

 

[pookondee]

42 minutes ago, Promula said:

Indeed. Take the UK for example, which also receives many millions of tourists per year. Does the average Brit worry about a declne in international tourist arrivals? They couldn't care less, and have far more important things to think about.

 

It does seem that a lot of foreigners in Thailand are self-important

If thats the case, why is the guy in charge so keen to kickstart tourism and pass this new visa scheme?

After all, Its ingrained in ALL Thai politicians to dislike foreigners.

 

And they claim its because foreigners are dirty and have low morals,

but really it is only because farangs bang on about democracy, anti corruption and equality at every turn...

And its those exact 3 things that go in direct confrontation with all Thai politicians interests..since day 1.

 

For such arrogant guys (gov ministers) to be actually suggesting a restart to tourism, there must be something big going down.

 

No way will they ever implement a decent welfare system, or share the wealth,

so of course they need every baht and dollar they can get, to help flow into grass-root sectors.

 

What a lot of people don't realise is that its all about the injection of foriegn funds.

Its akin to getting free money that just "turns up".

And a large part of that has gone towards developing the country.

 

We are not just talking about and old dudes funding bargirls families in Isaan here.

The whole foreigner thing is also tied into Thailand getting huge benefits and collecting lots of investment $

from foolproof system they have legislated..

which allows them a house advantage to win at every time.

 

Believe me, these guys in charge are totally arrogant, racist Xxxxs.

There is no way known they would even be suggesting a start to tourism unless they ABSOLUTELY had to.

 

It must be hurting them so much to loose face in that way.

 

IMO they must be copping huge pressure from the public and certain business sectors, trying so hard to be seen as to helping Thailand open up again.

[Promula]

5 minutes ago, pookondee said:

If thats the case, why is the guy in charge so keen to kickstart tourism and pass this new visa scheme?

After all, Its ingrained in ALL Thai politicians to dislike foreigners.

 

IMO they must be copping huge pressure from the public and certain business sectors, trying so hard to be seen as to helping Thailand open up again.

I expect the PM is giving about 15 minutes of his time per week to international tourism. He'll have an inbox of dozens of issues per week to be dealing with. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Promula

[khunjeff]

20 minutes ago, Promula said:

5 million, not 10 million.

 

You're quite right, obviously my memory hasn't improved over the last few decades!

[Promula]

1 hour ago, Aspaltso said:

I really like to topic in this post because it makes sense. One of the reasons many tourists started coming here was because people were friendly, and the lifestyle was great. That's still the case in many parts of the country, but there has definitely been a shift in attitude, and I can see that going back as recently as 2009 when I got here. Tourism has fattened the pockets of some, but has also brought unwelcome influences, and actually brought struggles onto others. At the very least it's good for Thais to get back to their provinces, and appreciate the simple things about their country.

That's exactly what my TGF said. A cousin of hers used to work in a restaurant in Koh Chang and had quite an unhealthy nocturnal lifestyle. She went back to Isaan a few months ago, is working on a farm, and seems happier and healthier.

[Curt1591]

Although just as crowded, I have found the MRT & BTS more mellow. 

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, Promula said:

Wrong. Of course there are "concerns" from interested parties, but not the majority of the population. Furthermore, more Brits travel abroad and spend their money than foreigners arrive in the UK to spend their money, so international tourism in net terms is actually damaging to the UK economy.

 

 

I too wish to lock up all brits, maybe we can team up on that. Make the UK north korea again!

[Mattd]

24 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

They bring money to these groups, yes, and the difference is that these groups are individuals that profit from individual tourism. But that is not all.. they also spend money in Thai markets, in local restaurants, in Supermarkets, in hotels and guesthouses, for Bahtbus and motorbike-taxis, for Thai massages and so on.

Exactly correct, some people are very narrow minded, in that they only look two dimensional.

The loss of large numbers of tourists has a massive affect right down the chain and not just on those directly involved with tourism.

The government stand to lose 1 Billion USD through airport tax alone, not mention VAT, corporation taxes etc. etc.

 

[shackleton]

I would think places like Pattaya ,Hua Hin, Phuket Chang Mai ect

Who are dependant on Tourism might have a different view

Lots of them now going out of business plus more in the future if things carry on as is  proberly looking 2021-2022 at tourism starting to get going again 

[gamini]

I worked in Thailand over 50 years ago and it was a much happier place with very few tourists. The expats that lived and worked here were well educated and behaved themselves. Pattaya was a paradise. No bars, bar girls or massage parlours. the sea was crystal clear. 

massive tourism today has not offered anything good. The  Thais that now work in the tourist business were mostly farmers and lived a good life. They were attracted by an easier lifestyle and all replaced by migrant workers. now many who are unemployed are going back to their villages . So theoretically they can all go back to their villages or work in the construction business or others that are now employing migrants. And the migrants can go home.

So basically the tourism business in Thailand has only benefited migrants who replaced the Thais who went into the tourism business

 

[Promula]

I was just talking to a very attractive Thai who works in my local coffee kiosk which has pretty much all Thai custoners. She's been there a couple of months.

 

Apparently she worked as a receptionist at a Patong hotel before but got laid off. She said that she's on slightly less money now but won't go back when the hotel reopens as she doesn't miss having to speak with unpleasant foreign guests every day. 

[Nout]

Yes it would be better for the foreigners here and for the rich Thais and Thais not involved in tourism.

[androokery]

2 hours ago, Promula said:

That's exactly what my TGF said. A cousin of hers used to work in a restaurant in Koh Chang and had quite an unhealthy nocturnal lifestyle. She went back to Isaan a few months ago, is working on a farm, and seems happier and healthier.

If the poor people of Thailand were just a little bit more content and enjoyed the joys of manual labour working on the farm everything would be so much better. Oh, look at that happy girl, picking rice in the field, walking with her trusted buffalo. Oh the satisfaction that comes with knowing your place in society and not trying to get above your station.

[Promula]

7 minutes ago, androokery said:

If the poor people of Thailand were just a little bit more content and enjoyed the joys of manual labour working on the farm everything would be so much better. Oh, look at that happy girl, picking rice in the field, walking with her trusted buffalo. Oh the satisfaction that comes with knowing your place in society and not trying to get above your station.

I don't think this is unique to Thais. My nephew gave up his job in a Starbucks in Bristol to become a holiday rep in Tenerife. Same same.  

[androokery]

13 minutes ago, Promula said:

I don't think this is unique to Thais. My nephew gave up his job in a Starbucks in Bristol to become a holiday rep in Tenerife. Same same.  

I may have forgotten to include tags for <sarcasm></sarcasm>.

[Promula]

27 minutes ago, androokery said:

 trying to get above your station.

^ This is an interesting point though. I don't see anything superior about giving up stable farm work to spend 6pm to 4am working in a bar/restaurant and getting drunk and fat on customer freebees every night.

[BritManToo]

Just now, Promula said:

I don't see anything superior about giving up stable farm work to spend 6pm to 4am working in a bar/restaurant and getting drunk and fat on customer freebees every night.

You're not the one being faced with the choice though.

[spidermike007]

Part of an ever changing world is more tourism. Thailand is not feudal China or Japan. This is 2020. 

 

We are not radioactive. We are people. Tourists contribute alot to the economy and so do expats. Even the rural folks benefit. Alot of the nicer houses in the poorer farming areas were built with money from expats. Alot of trucks, cars and income is from expats. Countless business employing many. To say it is insignificant, is a blatant misunderstanding of Thai economics. Thousands of hotels, restaurants, countless airlines and many tour companies, also benefit.

 

This hapless administration needs to develop some courage and initiative. They can't hide from the world forever. Extreme timidity from supposedly tough men is an amusing thing to witness. However, the pain they are inflicting on millions is not. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by spidermike007

[phantomfiddler]

I thought Thailand was a wonderful place until around 5-6 years ago it became swamped with a plague of Asians from a nearby country to the west. Surprisingly it is being found that all of Thailand,s woes will have been caused by Asians and not westerners, who pick up their litter and actually spend money !

[Disparate Dan]

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

The loss of large numbers of tourists has a massive affect right down the chain and not just on those directly involved with tourism.

The government stand to lose 1 Billion USD through airport tax alone, not mention VAT, corporation taxes etc. etc.

all of which is the aforementioned 20 percent of GDP.

 

1 hour ago, androokery said:

Oh the satisfaction that comes with knowing your place in society and not trying to get above your station.

which, as you are possibly already aware, is at the heart of what's wrong with Thailand. And ironically, the one causing all that trouble is a tourist, away in Europe.

 

[The Theory]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:46 AM, cjinchiangrai said:

That you think you are somehow better and more deserving than those "certain nations" is disturbing. If you don't like Asians, stay home.

"Stay home" ?!!! ???????????????????? This is where we live. And one more thing, we love Asians that's why we are here. We just don't like peace destroyers. If any of other Asians come to our home and not behaving normally then we have right to object, because this is our home.
Read your own post. Is it a great post toward others ? Don't forget that others have rights. Perhaps there are no "rights" in some "particular" countries or this word has no meaning. 
my girlfriend's daughter and her boyfriend work in tourist industry and they had a good income since they speak Chinese and actually graduated from Chinese university. They are not in good shape now, but even though bad behaviors are not welcome since this is "their country". 
 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by The Theory

[Thingamabob]

40 years ago there were no cheap flights, and western tourists knew how to behave. At that time Thais were poorer, life was  tough, but not many were starving. Their relationship with westerners was much better than today. And they appeared, at least, to be more content than they are now.

[sdweller]

Great idea....Thailand should become like North Korea, completely close it's borders to all outsiders by adopting a total xenophobic mentality!  Who cares about concepts like commerce, economy, making a living, etc.  All tourists are obviously evil, and do nothing but evil things.  Bravo!!!  

[Promula]

33 minutes ago, sdweller said:

Great idea....Thailand should become like North Korea, completely close it's borders to all outsiders by adopting a total xenophobic mentality!  Who cares about concepts like commerce, economy, making a living, etc.  All tourists are obviously evil, and do nothing but evil things.  Bravo!!!  

Nobody mentioned xenophobia, and this thread is about tourists, not expats, workers, and business visitors.

 

Personally I think Thailand would be a better and happier place if it started charging $500 for all tourism entry. It would immediately improve the quality of visitor by eradicating the 90% who refuse to pay that, especially short termers who would see it as terrible value for money.

[Thomas J]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:19 AM, Promula said:

So ok, international tourism brings in 12-15% or whatever it is of Thailand's GDP. So what?

What you fail to recognize is that the 12 - 15% is the direct injection into the economy. That does not include the "multiplier effect"  A person who works in tourism earns money.  They then spend that money on housing, cars, clothing, food, etc.  The people/companies who receive that money in turn, hire people, to provide those services and products.  Without that 12 - 15% that money does not exist and as such it hampers the overall economy by far more than 12 - 15%. 

 

[sandyf]

On 9/29/2020 at 11:20 AM, Max69xl said:

Domestic tourism will not help places like Phuket,Pattaya or Koh Samui a bit.

Absolutely spot on, but the real question is, would Thailand be better off without places like Pattaya, Phuket or Koh Samui.

I am currently in Khao Kho on the government scheme and the hotel is not short of customers.

[Promula]

1 hour ago, Thomas J said:

What you fail to recognize is that the 12 - 15% is the direct injection into the economy. That does not include the "multiplier effect"  A person who works in tourism earns money.  They then spend that money on housing, cars, clothing, food, etc.  The people/companies who receive that money in turn, hire people, to provide those services and products.  Without that 12 - 15% that money does not exist and as such it hampers the overall economy by far more than 12 - 15%. 

 

You fail to understand the economics of it. Every person working has a multiplier effect, so you can't just say "Oh, people working in tourism have a multiplier effect so generate more than their 12%" because everyone working in every sector has a multiplier effect, and it's already taken into account in producing GDP figures.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Promula

[runamok27]

I lived in Bangkok back in 1987 to 1990 and did not return again until 2015. The difference was staggering. Had a pizza place on Soi 4 by the Nana Plaza. Back in the 80's, the Nana Plaza area was nice, now it's a huge tourist trap. Same with all of the other areas I remember. For my personal tastes, I far prefer the way it used to be. The natural beauty of Thailand was amazing to see and is mostly gone now. Pretty much every place I have been this time around has been destroyed. If people think these places are beautiful now, they should have seen them way back in the day. I don't know if Thailand would be a happier place without international tourists but I do know that Thailand would be far more beautiful without all of the tourists basically ruining every natural site in Thailand.

[Barnabe]

1 hour ago, Promula said:

You fail to understand the economics of it. Every person working has a multiplier effect, so you can't just say "Oh, people working in tourism have a multiplier effect so generate more than their 12%" because everyone working in every sector has a multiplier effect, and it's already taken into account in producing GDP figures.

 

Pretty sure those 20% of GDP already include the multiplier effect. And it's all a guess anyway, it can be anything between 15 and 30%.

[realfunster]

On 9/30/2020 at 11:30 AM, Promula said:

5 million, not 10 million.

 

Great chart, shame it is missing 2012-2020, where IIRC tourist numbers continued that final rapid trajectory up to around 40 million a year.

That’s a quadruple growth in the 20 years since 2000....no wonder the place was creaking at the seams.