Thailand's stray dogs: Rabies alert as six primary school kids savaged at breaktime

[Orton Rd]

Of course the kid will have 'provoked' the dog! Again it could have been a mutt that the holy soi dog foundation had sterilized and let go to carry on attacking people. One of the biggest myths about dog attacks, apart from the there are only bad owners nonsense, is that dogs have to be provoked into an attack. They do not they are often sly crafty creatures and will attack if they calculate the subject is no danger, which is why they attack kids and babies, sometimes killing them.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Orton Rd

[Airbagwill]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

You mean in the dogs? I believe they have to take a sample of brain tissue and it would mean killing them. If you mean the kids, well likely they will just get the injections, else it is fatal.

No, if rabies is suspected they may well be tested and the dogs id=f captured or killed will be tested. If caught and they have rabies they would probably dies within a week anyway. The vaccine wold not necessarily remove all the evidence of rabies.

Testing on humans is complicated but possible

"Tests are performed on samples of saliva, serum, spinal fluid, and skin biopsies of hair follicles at the nape of the neck. "

Edited October 9, 2020 by Airbagwill

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

No, if rabies is suspected they may well be tested and the dogs id=f captured or killed will be tested. If caught and they have rabies they would probably dies within a week anyway. The vaccine wold not v=necessarily remove all the evidence of rabies.

The dogs were caught, if you read the OP.

Edited October 9, 2020 by jacko45k

[Airbagwill]

10 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

How does one test for rabies or evidence of rabies in someone cured?

Rabies like any other disease will leave antibodies or traces - any disease you have had is traceavble through antibodies to some extent.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, johng said:

Another kid gets mauled

 

there are reasons for dog attacks. Obviously with less dogs you'd think the chances are reduced.

However one needs to educate the public. e.g. don't interact with the dogs.

Sick dogs are more likely to defend themselves.

In packs the behaviour of dogs changes dramatically.

Dogs are VERY territorial, so a new prince on their patch will brig about a reaction of some sort - (e.g. guard dogs)

Females will defend a litter - (it is likely that the person is unaware of the proximity of pups)

Dogs affected with Rabies don' necessarily show obvious symptoms at first.

Privately owned dogs are equally if not more likely to bite someone.

Dogsshould be neutered as soon as possible to prevent aggressive behaviour developing.

[Orton Rd]

31 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

there are reasons for dog attacks. Obviously with less dogs you'd think the chances are reduced.

However one needs to educate the public. e.g. don't interact with the dogs.

Sick dogs are more likely to defend themselves.

In packs the behaviour of dogs changes dramatically.

Dogs are VERY territorial, so a new prince on their patch will brig about a reaction of some sort - (e.g. guard dogs)

Females will defend a litter - (it is likely that the person is unaware of the proximity of pups)

Dogs affected with Rabies don' necessarily show obvious symptoms at first.

Privately owned dogs are equally if not more likely to bite someone.

Dogsshould be neutered as soon as possible to prevent aggressive behaviour developing.

so how did the baby interact with the dog or why was it defending itself? Soi dogs should be killed as soon as possible, then there will be no problems of pack behavior, protecting puppies, territory, eco systems or any other excuse for aggressive dogs attacking babies. There was no mention of a litter, only of a soi dog ripping into a baby's face.

[Orton Rd]

31 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Thailand itself is developing the EEC project. Al to of this is of interest to the Chinese, who I believe have already pulled out of the Train projects.

The EEC has many sources of interests but many are on hold or have pulled out altogether.

Whilst Covid is a present problem, the overall project has shrunk in size and is beset by investment problems.

there are also problems with the local people whose lives and livelihoods are threatened y some of the projects.

In the end it will radically Change the face of Choburi Chachoensao and Rayong.

There's plenty in the press to read up on about this.

 

what have the Chinese to do with soi dogs?

[Orton Rd]

Unfortunately too many in this country are obsessed with these child maulers, this guy would not be for sterilizing the vermin

 

[Airbagwill]

24 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

so how did the baby interact with the dog or why was it defending itself? Soi dogs should be killed as soon as possible, then there will be no problems of pack behavior, protecting puppies, territory, eco systems or any other excuse for aggressive dogs attacking babies. There was no mention of a litter, only of a soi dog ripping into a baby's face.

THat's correct - there is no reason context or background given. Killing this dog itself is not a bad idea. It will rid the area of a potentially dangerous dog. In most countries if a dog attacks people it is put down.

However as explained aleready a cull or killing off all Soi Dogs is not possible and in the end is likely to cause more problems.

[Airbagwill]

18 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Unfortunately too many in this country are obsessed with these child maulers, this guy would not be for sterilizing the vermin

 

Very unhelpful video.

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

However as explained aleready a cull or killing off all Soi Dogs is not possible and in the end is likely to cause more problems.

 

What ‘more problems’ would eradicating all stray / soi dogs cause ??????

 

 

There are no stray dogs in the UK, thus there are no attacks by packs of or individual stray dogs. 

 

There are of course a few rare attacks, the owners are (nearly) always held responsible - this is simply due to some dog owners being terrible owners. 

[Airbagwill]

37 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

what have the Chinese to do with soi dogs?

Sometimes I think you don't take the time to read posts properly. I stated that the post was off topic before.. I wanted to clear up some misconceptions.

I think however it is inline with a lot of your posts on this thread that express a lot of anger, but very little understanding of the topic.

You have a tendency to see the issues in black and white, making false dichotomies and really showing no sign of trying to get at the root causes of the issues in Thailand, Preferring instead to work from prejudgements and assumption.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

There are no stray dogs in the UK, thus there are no attacks by packs of or individual stray dogs. 

This is just not true - there are about 100,000 strays at any time in the UK - they DO attack people and cause all sorts of problems.

However given that this is a much smaller problem than Thailand's you can see that once smaller numbers are attained the problem becomes less significant and more controllable.

[johng]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

There are no stray dogs in the UK

There is also no rabies in the UK

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, Airbagwill said:

This is just not true - there are about 100,000 strays at any time in the UK - they DO attack people and cause all sorts of problems.

However given that this is a much smaller problem than Thailand's you can see that once smaller numbers are attained the problem becomes less significant and more controllable.

Fair enough - I didn’t research that before I posted. 

 

That said: I don’t see any stray dogs in the UK roaming the streets of the towns and villages (in my area of the UK at least) - Yet in Thailand its impossible to avoid strays. 

 

I agree - fewer soi dogs, fewer problems. I’d go as far as suggesting no soi dogs, no problems. 

 

I think it could be easy for there to be a concerted nationwide effort to rid the nations streets of soi dogs. 

I don’t like the idea of cruelty to animals, but too many kids get bitten. 

 

Had there been a ‘full cull’ 20 year ago with continued monitoring there would be no issue with stray dogs today. 

[Orton Rd]

19 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Sometimes I think you don't take the time to read posts properly. I stated that the post was off topic before.. I wanted to clear up some misconceptions.

I think however it is inline with a lot of your posts on this thread that express a lot of anger, but very little understanding of the topic.

You have a tendency to see the issues in black and white, making false dichotomies and really showing no sign of trying to get at the root causes of the issues in Thailand, Preferring instead to work from prejudgements and assumption.

Oh dear you will be accusing me of dog hate or canineophabia next. Forgetting the 'false dichotomies' how about explaining how released sterilized dogs cease to be a health and safety risk and a threat to kids and babies? They don't, all that changes is those particular dogs cannot breed, just slowing down the population growth. The doggy website claims to have sterilized 470k dogs in the past 16 years, that is over 750 every week in that time, and while doing so the population has still risen. They are well meaning but misguided, if that is not too 'angry' an opinion.

[Orton Rd]

26 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

This is just not true - there are about 100,000 strays at any time in the UK - they DO attack people and cause all sorts of problems.

However given that this is a much smaller problem than Thailand's you can see that once smaller numbers are attained the problem becomes less significant and more controllable.

where did you get that number from? the last time I looked the Dogs today quoted 56k in 2018 and the number going down. At least we catch them then put them down if not claimed, we don't steralize them and let them go to continue to be a problem

 

https://dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/2018/11/26/uks-stray-dog-numbers-decrease-but-more-needs-doing/

Edited October 9, 2020 by Orton Rd

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

where did you get that number from? the last time I looked the Dogs today quoted 56k in 2018 and the number going down. At least we catch them then put them down if not claimed, we don't steralize them and let them go to continue to be a problem

 

https://dogstodaymagazine.co.uk/2018/11/26/uks-stray-dog-numbers-decrease-but-more-needs-doing/

Plus dog rabies has been eradicated in the UK....

[Airbagwill]

27 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Fair enough - I didn’t research that before I posted. 

 

That said: I don’t see any stray dogs in the UK roaming the streets of the towns and villages (in my area of the UK at least) - Yet in Thailand its impossible to avoid strays. 

 

I agree - fewer soi dogs, fewer problems. I’d go as far as suggesting no soi dogs, no problems. 

 

I think it could be easy for there to be a concerted nationwide effort to rid the nations streets of soi dogs. 

I don’t like the idea of cruelty to animals, but too many kids get bitten. 

 

Had there been a ‘full cull’ 20 year ago with continued monitoring there would be no issue with stray dogs today. 

 

There is a concerted effort at present in BKK by SDF. This needs to be adopted as govt policy throughout the land. It has already been successful in Phuket.

Culling dogs doesn’t work

CVNR does work over time. (Catch Vaccinate, Neuter and return) - this leads to a dwindling of the overall dog population. The cost is no more than a cull but 100% more effective.

To do this it is also necessary to end the food supply.

The main food supply is garbage - Thailand has a dreadful record for dealing with garbage - collection and disposal is hopeless - the dogs of course love it!

Feeding the dogs is obviously a total no-no.

If you adopt a dog you need to immediately neuter it and vaccinate it.

 

If this is carried out throughout Thailand then within a few years the improvement will be noticeable.

It is an idea to com[pare figures for Phuket and other Southern provinces with Central and Northern Thailand to get an idea of how progress can be made.

 

 

Again and again CULLS DON’T WORK - they can never be effective and dogs reproduce far too quickly to be totally wiped out, it isn’t even necessary - see places like UK. All that happens is the population bounces back on the new abundants food supply left by the “removed” dogs and breed healthier and stronger animals - it also facilitates the spread through movement of population of diseases e.g. Rabies.

Culls are only ever effective on smaller islands and in reducing a particular small population temporarily

 

 

[Airbagwill]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Plus dog rabies has been eradicated in the UK....

That again is not actually true - there have been no internally transmitted cases for a long time - however any mammal going into the UK could at any time bring rabies into the country.

 

In Thailand the advice is to get your Rabies shot wherever or whenever you are bitten by a mammal, even though places like Samui claim to be rabies free - this is not a constant situation and is easily changed.

 

the NHS advice in UK is this

If you ae bitten by an animal that might have rabies, you should immediately get the shots.....

 

"People at risk through their work

Vaccination is also recommended for anyone at risk of being exposed to rabies through their job (paid or voluntary), such as:

people who regularly handle bats

people who handle imported animals, such as workers at animal quarantine centres

laboratory workers who handle rabies samples

If you think this applies to you, speak to your employer or occupational health provider. If you regularly handle bats in a voluntary role, speak to a GP about the rabies vaccine."

Edited October 9, 2020 by Airbagwill

[transam]

1 minute ago, Airbagwill said:

 

There is a concerted effort at present in BKK by SDF. This needs to be adopted as govt policy throughout the land. It has already been successful in Phuket.

Culling dogs doesn’t work

CVNR does work over time. (Catch Vaccinate, Neuter and return) - this leads to a dwindling of the overall dog population. The cost is no more than a cull but 100% more effective.

To do this it is also necessary to end the food supply.

The main food supply is garbage - Thailand has a dreadful record for dealing with garbage - collection and disposal is hopeless - the dogs of course love it!

Feeding the dogs is obviously a total no-no.

If you adopt a dog you need to immediately neuter it and vaccinate it.

 

If this is carried out throughout Thailand then within a few years the improvement will be noticeable.

It is an idea to com[pare figures for Phuket and other Southern provinces with Central and Northern Thailand to get an idea of how progress can be made.

 

 

Again and again CULLS DON’T WORK - they can never be effective and dogs reproduce far too quickly to be totally wiped out, it isn’t even necessary - see places like UK. All that happens is the population bounces back on the new abundants food supply left by the “removed” dogs and breed healthier and stronger animals - it also facilitates the spread through movement of population of diseases e.g. Rabies.

Culls are only ever effective on smaller islands and in reducing a particular small population temporarily

 

 

I would have thought if a dog wasn't there then there would be no problem.

Where I live packs of dogs regularly tear themselves apart, last evening I drove through a pack of about 20 dogs, in an area where folk exercise.

 

LOS has rabies, yet they do nothing about rounding up strays.....

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

That again is not actually true - there have been no internally transmitted cases for a long time - however any mammal going into the UK could at any time bring rabies into the country.

UK rabies was taken care of, animals destroyed. Animals brought into the UK get quarantined, that's how the UK has stayed clean.

[micmichd]

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Rabies like any other disease will leave antibodies or traces - any disease you have had is traceavble through antibodies to some extent.

 

Here in the Dark Side of Pattaya (Little Issan) they don't wait. If a dog don't stops barking, they threaten to hit him and throw him in the crocodile lake (there's one behind Vientiane Restaurant) They say if he turns his eyes down and surrenders to the threat (because he can't smell any fear) then he's a real dog. If he still barks and doesn't stop barking like hell, then he's got probably rabies, and the crocodiles are hungry, too. 

Case closed, problem solved. 

[Airbagwill]

50 minutes ago, transam said:

Plus dog rabies has been eradicated in the UK....

You are making assumptions.

 

Mammals come in and out of the UK every day.

Livestock etc is certified to move from EU countries,

Pets that have passports and up until January can move freely within the EU and other countries - (Ausrtralia for instance) they do not need quarantine.

 

Bringing animals into the UK

 

“There are no restrictions on bringing pet rodents, rabbits, birds, invertebrates, amphibians and reptiles to the UK from EU countries.” - 

UK gov.co.uk

 

You can bring your dog, cat or ferret into the UK without quarantine as long as they meet the rules of the Pet Travel Scheme (PETS).

There’s a similar scheme for horses.

 

Live animals are traded freely within the EU. Responsibility lies with the member state of origin to ensure that such trade meets animal and public health standards as set out in EU legislation.

 

 

Rabies can NEVER be totally eradicated.

 

the public perception of a "rabies free" country is incorrect.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

19 minutes ago, micmichd said:

Here in the Dark Side of Pattaya (Little Issan) they don't wait. If a dog don't stops barking, they threaten to hit him and throw him in the crocodile lake (there's one behind Vientiane Restaurant) They say if he turns his eyes down and surrenders to the threat (because he can't smell any fear) then he's a real dog. If he still barks and doesn't stop barking like hell, then he's got probably rabies, and the crocodiles are hungry, too. 

Case closed, problem solved. 

as this is a form of cull it won't work, and a false diagnosis of Rabies as dogs don't show symptoms straight away.

[Airbagwill]

22 minutes ago, micmichd said:

(there's one behind Vientiane Restaurant)

Really!?!?!

[Airbagwill]

34 minutes ago, micmichd said:

Here in the Dark Side of Pattaya (Little Issan) they don't wait. If a dog don't stops barking, they threaten to hit him and throw him in the crocodile lake (there's one behind Vientiane Restaurant) They say if he turns his eyes down and surrenders to the threat (because he can't smell any fear) then he's a real dog. If he still barks and doesn't stop barking like hell, then he's got probably rabies, and the crocodiles are hungry, too. 

Case closed, problem solved. 

What a lot of people don't realise is that dogs - as opposed to wolves never actually mature - they never fully socialise like wolves and live in s permanently partly developed adolescence - their behaviour whilst similar to wolves is not the same and they are bred to live with humans - the left to their own devices they try to form packs like wolves but do not have the skills and look for the easiest way out - they become scavengers. They display pack behaviour and defend territory etc but they retain a bark - something that adiult wild-dogs don't do.

A lot of they behaviour then is gentically interfered with by human elective breeding.

Familiarity with humans can be a problem in itself - e.g they are "trained" to expect food from some.

We also know that in Thailand, dogs have leaned if you band down and pretend to pick up a rock thy will usually run away.... thesis learned behaviour from interaction with humans ,

Edited October 9, 2020 by Airbagwill

[Rimmer]

Some off topic posts about EEC and Belt and Road have been removed.

Please DO NOT attempt to hijack topics.

[Nout]

On 10/7/2020 at 9:02 AM, 2long said:

As far as I know it's not possible to 'test for rabies' without cutting the mammal's head off. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

This is very sad, and a difficult situation all over the country. Why should humans destroy the dogs for our own convenience of living with peace of mind? Sterilising the females to reduce reproduction and castrating the males to reduce aggression is the only solution.

Because humans are more important than dogs 

[Rimmer]

Off topic removed