What happens to visa amnesty after October 31st? I can't get a letter from the embassy.

[ninjabkk]

What happens to my visa after October 31st?  I don't get a letter from the embassy.

[DrJack54]

What visa? 

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, ninjabkk said:

What happens to my visa after October 31st?  I don't get a letter from the embassy.

For those that don't have a letter from their embassy they may give them this affidavit to complete and sign. I am sure immigration is aware that not everybody can get the letter.

 

 

Best to apply for a 30 day extension now that will start on the 1st and end on the 30th of November. Then after that you may be able to apply for a 60 day extension.

[Promula]

The interesting thing is, this is a legal document intended for use in court. Simply ticking a box without having a reasonable belief and evidence that you are unable to leave Thailand could cause serious problems later.  That's why I think those that are feeling happy that no evidence is apparently required to be supplied with it are unwise.

 

This form isn't a generous gift by the IOs. It's a sworn oath. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[Promula]

To those laughing, I speak from experience as someone who ended up in a Thai court for making a false declaration on a government document. It wasn't fun.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[ubonjoe]

43 minutes ago, Promula said:

The interesting thing is, this is a legal document intended for use in court.

Where does it say it is for that.

44 minutes ago, Promula said:

Simply ticking a box without having a reasonable belief and evidence that you are unable to leave Thailand could cause serious problems later. 

Why?

Immigration are just wanting something on paper to justify the extension. Not much different that the letters issued by a embassy.

[Promula]

 

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Where does it say it is for that.

Why?

Immigration are just wanting something on paper to justify the extension. Not much different that the letters issued by a embassy.

It's an Affidavit. A sworn oath for use as evidence in court.

 

To explain my story, I had my driving licence confiscated for going through a red light in Nakhon Phanom. Rode back to Bangkok and then realised I should have waited and gone to recover it from the police station. Went to the transport office in Bangkok and told them what happened. They misunderstood and thought I'd lost my licence and reported it to the police so gave me a Thai language form to sign which I couldn't read and which got me a replacement licence. The police were in contact shortly afterwards...

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[rxr]

1 hour ago, Promula said:

The interesting thing is, this is a legal document intended for use in court. Simply ticking a box without having a reasonable belief and evidence that you are unable to leave Thailand could cause serious problems later.  That's why I think those that are feeling happy that no evidence is apparently required to be supplied with it are unwise.

 

This form isn't a generous gift by the IOs. It's a sworn oath. 

The first checkbox says:

I am not permitted to enter the destination country OR the pandemic situation of Covid-19 is still ongoing

 

As long as the pandemic is ongoing I'd have no problem signing this document

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, Promula said:

It's an Affidavit. A sworn oath for use as evidence in court.

Affidavits can be used for many things. They are just a statement to verify something. The are certainly not only for use in court.

A power of attorney is an example of one. My embassy will let do a affidavit to prove my address to apply for drivers license and etc for example.

Your example is not for using a affidavit to something. You made a false police report that has  penalties under a law.

[Promula]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Affidavits can be used for many things. They are just a statement to verify something.

 

You made a false police report that has own penalties under a law.

I didn't make a false police report. I made a false Transport Office affidavit declaration. Unknowingly, because of language problems both when describing my problem and being unable to read the form. That didn't stop me ending up in court and fined. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[Promula]

4 minutes ago, rxr said:

The first checkbox says:

I am not permitted to enter the destination country OR the pandemic situation of Covid-19 is still ongoing

 

As long as the pandemic is ongoing I'd have no problem signing this document

You're welcome to think that, but I disagree. The form is a sworn oath that you either can't leave Thailand or would be at serious risk if you leave Thailand. Could you prove those things in court? If so, you're fine. 

[Promula]

39 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

 

Immigration are just wanting something on paper to justify the extension. Not much different that the letters issued by a embassy.

It's very different. I think it likely that they are changing to this form from embassy letters because it allows prosecution for a false statement. Embassy letters don't. They aren't doing it to be kind. Remember, they're the police.   

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Promula said:

It's very different. I think it likely that they are changing to this form from embassy letters because it allows prosecution for a false statement. Embassy letters don't.

They are not changing to that form. They will still accept letters from a embassy.

It is just an option for those unable to get a letter from their embassy to apply under clause 2.28 of the immigration order.

[Promula]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They are not changing to that form. They will still accept letters from a embassy.

It is just an option for those unable to get a letter from their embassy to apply under clause 2.28 of the immigration order.

I think you're underestimating the significance of signing a police affidavit which is effectively to swear on oath that you can't leave Thailand or would be at serious risk of harm if you leave Thailand and so should be granted refuge, which you can't prove in court.

 

I always take such things seriously based on personal experience, and having thought about it over recent days, think that's the unfortunate reality of this form.  

 

I'm trying to be realistic and cautious, not pessimistic.  

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[Promula]

39 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Affidavits can be used for many things. They are just a statement to verify something. The are certainly not only for use in court.

A power of attorney is an example of one.

A power of attorney is for use in court if things end up in court, as are all affidavits. That is their primary purpose, by definition. 

 

af·fi·da·vit

 

noun

LAW

 

1. a written statement confirmed by oath or affirmation, for use as evidence in court.

   "a former employee swore an affidavit relating to his claim for unfair dismissal"

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[OJAS]

26 minutes ago, Promula said:

A power of attorney is for use in court if things end up in court, as are all affidavits. That is their primary purpose, by definition. 

 

af·fi·da·vit

 

noun

LAW

 

1. a written statement confirmed by oath or affirmation, for use as evidence in court.

   "a former employee swore an affidavit relating to his claim for unfair dismissal"

But would not the OP be making a truthful declaration, affidavit or whatever you like to call it by ticking the second box on the grounds that his home country's embassy or consulate is unable to issue a letter of confirmation and request for a temporary stay, for its own bloody-minded reasons for not doing this?

 

IMHO you are indulging in hysterical scaremongering since the OP's situation is quite different to yours.

 

[ubonjoe]

50 minutes ago, Promula said:

A power of attorney is for use in court if things end up in court, as are all affidavits. That is their primary purpose, by definition. 

You selected the definition that fit your purpose. There are many definitions for a affidavit.

See this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affidavit

 

[Promula]

30 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You selected the definition that fit your purpose. There are many definitions for a affidavit.

See this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affidavit

 

Consider the source of the affidavit. The police will logically use their own affidavit in court. If there's no intent to, they'd simply extend the amnesty.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[jackdd]

29 minutes ago, Promula said:

Consider the source of the affidavit. The police will logically use their own affidavit in court. If there's no intent to, they'd simply extend the amnesty.

The amnesty wasn't enacted by immigration, and they have no power to decide about it.

Edited October 11, 2020 by jackdd

[ubonjoe]

I have just removed several bickering posts. Time to end or this topic will be soon be closed.

[Promula]

During the amnesty people haven't needed to make much of a choice. It's been simple. Leave or stay.

 

As of next month, the choice becomes "leave, or make a sworn police statement (that could be used against you in court) whereby your personal circumstances mean that you should be granted 60 days of refuge in Thailand"

 

It's interesting that this is being introduced at the 9 month stage, the same duration as the STV. I think tourists will need a strong personally,-valid reason to remain in Thailand for longer than 9 months. I don't think that fear of getting a cough will count.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[Andrew234]

3 hours ago, Promula said:

I think you're underestimating the significance of signing a police affidavit which is effectively to swear on oath that you can't leave Thailand or would be at serious risk of harm if you leave Thailand and so should be granted refuge, which you can't prove in court.

 

I always take such things seriously based on personal experience, and having thought about it over recent days, think that's the unfortunate reality of this form.  

 

I'm trying to be realistic and cautious, not pessimistic.  

I think you forgot paranoid.

[Promula]

20 minutes ago, Andrew234 said:

I think you forgot paranoid.

I don't think so.

 

It's not the police's job to help foreign tourists stay in Thailand for a year. They've tried to make them leave several times, and are now ratcheting up the pressure by bringing an affidavit into it. Thai govt departments have many such affidavits. They're used to introduce legal consequences when asking for something you're not reasonably entitled to.

 

IMO a strong reason for continued refuge will be valid. Fear of getting a very low risk fever, or of going to Turkey, isn't. If they reject or prosecute a few people for submitting an unreasonable claim for 60 days of refuge, a mass exodus from Thailand will follow. Job done.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[jackdd]

30 minutes ago, Andrew234 said:

I think you forgot paranoid.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you

[Promula]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

But would not the OP be making a truthful declaration, affidavit or whatever you like to call it by ticking the second box 

 

I think anyone ticking only one box will be rejected, or limited to a maximum of one extension like when extending a TV.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Promula

[bjaz]

1 hour ago, Promula said:

I think anyone ticking only one box will be rejected, or limited to a maximum of one extension like when extending a TV.

Not sure of that - there's reason to think they might keep the status-quo until borders reopen more frankly - the current talk of paying for 60-day extension granted to all who apply for them does remind me of what Indonesia did a couple of months ago.

Indonesia had a sort of amnesty at first (a free and automatic "emergency stay permit"), then revoked it to introduce temporary regulatory amendments allowing both short-term and long-term visa holders to remain in the country by converting any visa type to Indonesia's general long-stay visa, the b211 "social visa" (for tourism and social purposes), with paying monthly extensions.
This visa allows for a 6 month stay in normal times (initial 90 days + 4x 30-day extensions), but extensions are currently unlimited in current circumstances, "until the emergency is deemed over" by the Indonesian government.

 

Indonesian "visa amnesty" timeline went as follows:

At the start of the pandemic they granted a free "emergency stay permit" to Chinese nationals:
http://ponorogo.imigrasi.go.id/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/emergencystaypermit.jpg
 

This "Emergency stay permit" was then extended to all foreigners in the country, regardless of their initial visa type:

https://www.bali.com/media/image/1926/immigration-restrictions-bali-indonesiaimmigration-restrictions-bali-indonesia.jpg
 

These "emergency stay permits"were finally revoked, but temporary amendment of regulations were instroduced to allow all foreigners (tourists + long stay visa holders) to apply in-country (onshore) for a long-stay tourist visa, with (currently unlimited) paying monthly extensions to extend their stay:

https://i2.wp.com/pemalang.imigrasi.go.id/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/imigrasipml_1599033978_1.jpg?w=1440&ssl=1

https://i0.wp.com/pemalang.imigrasi.go.id/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/imigrasipml_1599033978_2.jpg?w=1440&ssl=1

There was an almost 2-month deadline to apply for this visa, either in person at immigrasi or through an agent.

Sure, Thailand is not Indonesia, but after the initial, strict-sounding reminders of penalties for overstayers that preceded the end of Thailand's amnesty on September 26, it does seem like there now is a move towards a little more flexibility regarding foreigners currently in the country, pretty much since the TAT declaration.

It's not clear or official, but in the light of recent news, it does look like most foreigners with no valid stay permit but willing to apply and pay for extensions will be allowed to stay in Thailand until the end of December, and maybe even longer, we'll see.

Even if there is a theoretical risk of prosecution, I doubt that foreigners ticking the "the pandemic is ongoing" box on the form to justify an application for an exceptionnal extension of stay in Thailand will ever be asked to actually justify such a statement...

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by bjaz

[ubonjoe]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I have just removed several bickering posts. Time to end or this topic will be soon be closed.

More posts have now been removed. 

The OP  has received the info he was looking for long ago. This topic now