Make Thailand a "hub" for digital nomads, suggests influential Thai politician

[DrTuner]

4 minutes ago, fdsa said:

Many digital nomads I know relocated from Thailand since it started to deny tourist visa after 4 visas in a row (the infamous "red stamp"). It will not become a "hub" in the nearest years with those laws.

Ah, but that is excellent, now they can recognize the nomads from the stamp.

 

"Welcome back Sir na khraaap bring your wallet na krhaaaaaaaaaaaaaapp!"

Edited October 14, 2020 by DrTuner
typo

[bimmerbob]

9 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Another day, another hub... 

It's a good idea - do you disagree?

[Sametboy2019]

Why don't they just make a price that they want people to have in their account every month like a retirement or marriage visa and then let whoever want to stay come. 

[hioctane]

8 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

Ah the return of the ''hubs'', for some reasons Thai politicians like this word.

 

About the digital nomads, Korn is late at the party, Thailand has already

missed the opportunity few years ago, in a perfectly volontary way.

 

From the Thai authorities point of view. a digital nomad is a Youtuber

doing video in Thailand and on Thailand without paying any taxes on it

or an illegal internet scam artist (Nigerian romance, chinese gambling or russian forex)

 

It is not late because digital nomads are still not given a legal status. There are bad apples in any industry. Thai authorities can limit what types of work they can do online.

 

 

8 hours ago, TooBigToFit said:

It's an old idea. Korn is a supporter of the regime. I don't listen to him. If he were really for what he says, he would be for freedom of speech as a lot of online stuff is related to that. He supports keeping the people down.

It is not really about Korn, but the idea that is interesting.

 

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good luck making them all get a work permit.

Of course they will. They don't want to do constant visa runs. They don't want to worry about getting kicked out. If you are talking about the overstayers, most of them are not digital nomads! Don't confuse "begpackers" with digital nomads!

 

 

8 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Good luck getting tax out of that crowd of wandering dropouts. Try Google and Amazon first mates, see how that goes. 

It could be condition of getting a visa, but many know how to get around it anyway. You need to live in a country for a certain amount of time before taxation applies. However, you are missing the point. People that live there pay rent, buy food and clothes.. ie contribute to the economy while not taking away Thai jobs.

 

7 hours ago, aroiaroi said:

Due to covid, 'work from home' or 'remote work' (previously a privilege offered to only very high skilled workers) has become more acceptable in the workplace.
That has laid some groundwork for those skilled workers, who are in stable employment, to potentially negotiate with their employer - to essentially offer services as a remote contracter / consultant.

Effectively, work would be outsourced to Thailand.

Like Thai authorities, most are behind in the times. Traditionally, outsourcing means you are hiring from a foreign country with local workers. Now it can mean hiring from a foreign country with foreign workers.

 

As a digital worker (not nomad because I haven't been anywhere since the pandemic started), I welcome this and can't wait for the Thai authorities to realize that we can contribute to the Thai economy without taking away Thai jobs. In fact, we might even hire Thais!

[w94005m]

9 minutes ago, hioctane said:

It is not late because digital nomads are still not given a legal status. There are bad apples in any industry. Thai authorities can limit what types of work they can do online.

 

 

It is not really about Korn, but the idea that is interesting.

 

Of course they will. They don't want to do constant visa runs. They don't want to worry about getting kicked out. If you are talking about the overstayers, most of them are not digital nomads! Don't confuse "begpackers" with digital nomads!

 

 

It could be condition of getting a visa, but many know how to get around it anyway. You need to live in a country for a certain amount of time before taxation applies. However, you are missing the point. People that live there pay rent, buy food and clothes.. ie contribute to the economy while not taking away Thai jobs.

 

Like Thai authorities, most are behind in the times. Traditionally, outsourcing means you are hiring from a foreign country with local workers. Now it can mean hiring from a foreign country with foreign workers.

 

As a digital worker (not nomad because I haven't been anywhere since the pandemic started), I welcome this and can't wait for the Thai authorities to realize that we can contribute to the Thai economy without taking away Thai jobs. In fact, we might even hire Thais!

Nice to see some sensible enthusiasm for a good plan, that I also agree is to be encouraged.

 

I read the first comments on the first page of this article and saw not one useful comment. Only the typical members who have nothing better to do than take their normal stupid potshots and make unfunny comments, with minimal relevance to the posted topic. No wonder a lot of Thais have such a low opinion of expats.

 

[amdy2206]

Digital nomads - sponge off everyones free internet, paying nothing, and bringing nothing to the country. Another great idea from the out of touch Elite.  

[garyk]

Haha,  just don't say anything bad or off to jail with ya...

[DrTuner]

20 minutes ago, amdy2206 said:

Digital nomads - sponge off everyones free internet, paying nothing, and bringing nothing to the country. Another great idea from the out of touch Elite.  

I think the 500k entry will shave off the "McDonalds is my office" crowd.

[Jonathan Swift]

Great idea which will be looked at and discarded for not resonating with the limited preconceptions and prejudices. Income from the digital workplace, spent in Thailand. Easy. Just as easy as letting pensioners back in so that they ALSO could spend THEIR income and bolster the economy. Surely if numbers were available the retirement visa holders, many of whom like myself who also work, would represent a substantial contribution to the economy which is consistently overlooked. We live there 24/7 (when not marooned outside like right now) and the fickleness of the tourism industry does not interfere with that constant and dependable revenue stream. But those of us old enough and experienced enough understand how bureaucracies work, in every country not just Thailand, it's always a horse designed by committee. It's just terribly sad really, because so many Thais are suffering from the crashed economy, and people like me who love Thailand warts and all cannot come back to our adopted home. But remember folks, at least Thailand is safer than most from Covid, whereas the "mighty" United States is suffering the worst disaster since the great depression because of the insane clown running it into the ground. Oh, and guess where I'm now stuck then?

[Miami007]

"digital nomads"... that concept won't replace tourism..  Let's assume 40 million tourists, staying 7 nights, which is 280 million nights.  The country would need more than 75,000 digital nomads staying a full year to generate these numbers (as 1200/ month that won't add up).

 

Secondly, a digital nomad will move to Thailand because there is a lower cost of living and they won't spend the same as a typical tourist. Let's be honest, when we are on vacation, we eat in restaurants, go out at night etc... once we work, we won't do that whether we live in Thailand or the USA.  

Long-stays will also find a more affordable accommodation than a tourist.  

 

As several others have mentioned, digital nomads were considered unwanted/ illegal in the past, now the country would encourage the concept?  When will the rules change again?

 

[hioctane]

3 hours ago, amdy2206 said:

Digital nomads - sponge off everyones free internet, paying nothing, and bringing nothing to the country. Another great idea from the out of touch Elite.  

 

What free internet? Nothing is really free. Price of “free” internet that is included as part of rent? They pay for rent, buy clothes, food, entertainment. They do more to support the economy and longer than the short term tourists. Digital nomads should not to be confused with the “begpackers” that should be banned!

[Miami007]

8 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Many people are surely already working as digital nomads in Thailand, often anonymously, without any need for a visa. I know someone who periodically works for an overseas company on the internet, and how would the government know? We haven't quite reached that stage of government surveillance.

the "nomad" part implies people moving locations frequently.  The current restrictions make that impossible

Before Covid, I could have worked from BKK for 1 month without a visa - but anything longer than that would have required some visa.  Short-term, not a problem to work online, but not a long-term solution unless you are willing to overstay (in the absence of amnesty)

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, sdweller said:

Man the negativity from some of these "Advanced or Senior Members" is stifling.  Perhaps you should consider taking your trolling somewhere else, (which is what it is for many of these "Advanced Members" who just wait for the next topic to come up so they can start bashing). 

 

If you have something to add, great. If you don't have a life, please spare us your tiresome negativity and do something else. 

Young padawan, let me introduce you to the concept of freedom on a forum

 

it's about an idea or a specific subject, where everybody can write a comment of his choice 

positive or negative (It depends of a lot of things, the weather, the mindset at the moment

the age, the health, how good or bad was the last sex session and so on) then the debate

can progress in something called a discussion.

 

For example from my point of view your post express a lot of negativity and add nothing 

to the debate, but hey you are free to do it and i have no reason or legitimacy to prevent you

from writing this

 

i wish you a nice day

[bkk_mike]

Thailand is already a hub for digital nomads. - There's lots of freelancers based in Chiang Mai.

The problem is it's a lot harder for employees because they have to get HR departments to sign off on it - and Thailand's immigration rules (things like the 4 employees for a foreigner - assuming that's still a thing...) for a work permit are problematic.

[Miami007]

8 hours ago, Dart12 said:

how does one get busted for working online?   Seems like something hard to prove, no?

depends... if you post videos of you in Thailand online and that is your source of income, then easy

A friend in BKK told me that immigration was staking out co-working places (WeWork etc) to see whether the same people show up every day - then raid and ask to see work permits.

 

Easier to hide, if you rent an apartment and work from that location - but you still need to have the proper documentation to be in the country (leaving and returning will eventually become a challenge as well)

[kingofthemountain]

5 hours ago, hioctane said:

It is not late because digital nomads are still not given a legal status. There are bad apples in any industry. Thai authorities can limit what types of work they can do online.

 

How many country have given a legal status to digital nomads?

Barbados? Estonia? Why would you want Thailand to be the first of the big countries

in the world to do it?

As maybe you know already it's mostly a conservative country.

 

There are a lot of bad apples in this ''industry'' because by definition it's very difficult

to control it.

 

What sort of limit about what types of work can be done online and how

this can be controled by the Thai authorities? Any suggestion about that?

Edited October 14, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[mbenson]

10 hours ago, theonetrueaussie said:

HaHa, I can pretty much guarantee when I was working full time as a digital nomad I was paying more in taxes then you even earned in a year! Not all digital nomads are poor little one!

Yeah. You pay income tax in your home country usually, even if you are not there, the money is paid into your bank account there. The employer would report the money paid as income. Something similar would happen if you were incorporated as a consultant I believe. 

Frankly this a good idea IMHO. Oh to be 30, living in Thailand, and making $100,000+ USD (many of them are making that much). It would be a beautiful thing.

Of course, some token tax would need to be paid so that the Thais don't feel like they are being taken advantage of (heaven forbid). I do believe, as was stated previously here, that nomads should get something in return for paying dual taxes.

But I tell you, one nasty experience at immigration will go a long way toward persuading people to head elsewhere. Not every nomad will love the country like most of us. (Come on, admit it.)

[bodymassagemyfriend]

14 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

That old chestnut again ! ????????????

 

Digital nomads ( like me ) work FROM HOME. We are in the safest category

[Albert Zweistein]

17 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Another day, another hub... 

I can't hub it anymore !

[Albert Zweistein]

16 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

For all the slagging, theres a huge market out there and Thailand has many of the appeals which could make this work.. 

What they need to do is have crystal clear rules and a system of enforcement that works in real world practice, to enable this through visa, work legality, and any taxation or tax waiver. 

It would be very simple for example to covert the current 'media' visa for freelance media professionals into a similar visa for freelance / online workers. They could hold a deposit against taxation for min wage for the duration of the visa issued and make 2nd year contingent on accepted simple accounts.

These things are possible but it requires vision, consistency, clarity, rules that are applied nationally etc etc. Which is why so many see it as impossible. 

They could hold a deposit against taxation for min wage for the duration of the visa. Hahahahahahahahaha.

[bkkcanuck8]

I don't know where all the negativity is coming from -- all it would be doing is giving a legal option to what is now sort of gray legal status (known but ignored - but not technically legal).   I personally welcome the idea of offering a specific visa for something that you just could not get a visa for (and were ignored since they don't see you as taking work away from Thais).  The visa would be valid for only work for foreign companies where your presence is not needed here and you do not do local business [i.e. shipping, trading physical goods - only online work] (which could take work away from locals).   Regardless of whether they pay income taxes (many would if given the option to paying taxes in other tax jurisdictions that have higher taxes) -- the visa holders would not be a burden (I would expect that the holders of the visa would have to have health insurance) -- and likely on average spend more than your average expat retiree.   I of course don't expect it to go anywhere soon, but it is at least someone raising the issue (who at least counts a little).

[bkkcanuck8]

4 hours ago, Miami007 said:

"digital nomads"... that concept won't replace tourism..  Let's assume 40 million tourists, staying 7 nights, which is 280 million nights.  The country would need more than 75,000 digital nomads staying a full year to generate these numbers (as 1200/ month that won't add up).

 

Secondly, a digital nomad will move to Thailand because there is a lower cost of living and they won't spend the same as a typical tourist. Let's be honest, when we are on vacation, we eat in restaurants, go out at night etc... once we work, we won't do that whether we live in Thailand or the USA.  

Long-stays will also find a more affordable accommodation than a tourist. 

Agreed, but a real 'digital' non-nomadic nomad would likely on average have potentially more income on average to spend than an expat retiree on a fixed pension (a lot of which move here because it is hard to live on many of those pensions back in the home country). [yes some have great pensions, but many on government pensions do not].  It does not replace tourism, but it does diversify a bit... and quite honestly -- I doubt tourism is going to fully recover anytime soon... (even after the pandemic ends).

[Jack Hna]

12 hours ago, Dart12 said:

At what level does one need to be to rate a "serious" player? 

Serious players are 5+ years in. Totally acclimatized to time zone differentials and go to bed in thailand real soon. They never see daylight until midday and they never ever forget to switch their vpn onto the correct locations. They might have 3-4 phone numbers and you gotta be whacking one off 4-5 times a day. No rookie numbers on this beat.

[Sydebolle]

17 hours ago, Henryford said:

I thought they wanted to get rid of all the dossers living on 20,000 baht a month.

 

Well, it might slowly sink into their little grey cells (or whatever is left) that they might have been better advised not to scare/send away 900'000 visa runners spending THB 20K/monthly.

We're talking of THB 216 billion (not million) which were spent, and that is a conservative figure. Rather have the cheap, rude planeloads of the red brethren from the North who, by all accounts, dont feed the SME infrastructure the way those visa runners did .........

The digital nomads slice of the cake; excellent idea and therefore will never be materialized. The Bigwigs in the Land have constantly managed to do the opposite to common sense - go figure! 

[TERMINATOR3AB]

Wow  20,000 baht a month  really  in Thailand ?

My wife lives about 45 minutes from Bangkok  in a Condo  with  100,000   average Thai neighbours 

The  Average  monthly  wage  for those that work is 10,000  baht  a month 

Seems  all you expats  types  have no idea of the real  Thailand  no matter  how long you have lived  there

10 %   Rich  wealthy..  10  %  professional  well off  ....80%   poor 

Seems  not only the Gov are  dreamers  about Thailand  but many  expats  have not a clue on the real  Thailand 

Good  Luck  Thailand 

[SupermarineS6B]

Tell you what......... Why don't we just let backpackers and normal tourists back in ?   You know, the stuff that built the place........  What next.... Aliens ?    Oh that's us....sorry.....

[bkk_bwana]

Will these digital nomads pay tax?  If not, why should a Thai person, or Thailand resident who is working remotely pay tax on their earnings and a digital nomad not?

[Dart12]

Sounds more like jealousy of a lot of people here wishing they could have been a digital nomad humping their way across Thailand in their 20's instead of milking cows or pounding asphault or working a <deleted> corp job for pennies during their early 20's.

I know I would have liked that option better than my corp job out of college which included. $80k debt to the institution.

[bkkcanuck8]

35 minutes ago, bkk_bwana said:

Will these digital nomads pay tax?  If not, why should a Thai person, or Thailand resident who is working remotely pay tax on their earnings and a digital nomad not?

That really is none of your business.  It is up to the issuers (the Thai people and their government) and the people they issue visas for.  I would expect that many who actually get paid into accounts in their home country would likely opt to getting taxed in Thailand (which in many cases would be lower) -- though if they are employed, the country of origin would have dibs and Thailand would have the option if there was some left over.   There are some that fall through the cracks and by becoming legal - could (if Thailand so chooses) suddenly become the subject of an audit (two edged sword).

[robblok]

20 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Good luck getting tax out of that crowd of wandering dropouts. Try Google and Amazon first mates, see how that goes. 

Why get tax out of them, do they get tax out of you ?