"The Stranded": Highlighting the plight of expats unable to return to Thailand; #2 Retirees

[Mark mark]

2 hours ago, Polaky said:

Hey mark, and how much was this ubeaute insurance, surely better priced than pacific with decent coverage?.

What I just have almost completed. ... It was the cheapest by fat and 10 times less than the most expensive. ... . ... 

 

... Pacific Prime is an Insurance broker ... not a providor company. And not Pacific Cross ... though they do work with them ... and LMG is Liberty Mutual Group. .which I used,  is a Thai Insurance company .on the Thai Embasoes Companys providing Insyrance fir the NON -OA visa. ... . I will send you a private messsge about it, later on, as I think it is sgainst the ruels to put any thing comercial here. ...  ? ... 

[Sheryl]

Several completely off topic posts have been removed along with replies to them

[cjinchiangrai]

7 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Sadly you lose them and have to start all over again I’m stuck in Thailand my wife is in the U.K. in her 10th month and has got so settled over there she does not want to come back to Thailand problem is we own a property here have cats and if I went back to the U.K. I would find it nigh impossible to get back into Thailand . My next door neighbour who is Chinese has the same problem his Chinese wife can’t get back after visiting her mother yet you have the Thai government claiming Chinese are allowed back into Thailand my neighbour tells me this is total BS as his wife has tried every Avenue to try and return.

This is opening up, they are running flights from Shanghai and Guangzhou now. The trick is to keep in touch with the consulate so you can find out when the flights are.

[riverhigh]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Why not? I class myself as an immigrant. 

Definition of an immigrant "is a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country".   To legally become an immigrant in the eyes of the Thai governemnt you need  a permanent residendcy commonly known in farang circles as a PR. Very difficut to get and near impossible if you are an average retiree (I put myslef in that category). None of the people mentioned in this article are "permanent residents" but unfortunately want to be treated as such. While the people mentioend in this article have my sysmpathy, it does not appear they put in the effort to become permanent residents. If you want to adopt Thailand as your country, you have to get Thailand to adopt you. This takes  a lot of effort.  When I came here 16 years ago the PR was ridiculed as being too expensive and not woth the effort. That may be the case but I take off my hat to those who learnt the Thai language to pass the test, start a business/get a job, go through rigorous procedures, inspections, documentation, etc to become a permanent resident. IMHO living in Thailand is a privililedge that has to be earned and not a right. Similar to orignator of this post I do not consider myself as an immnigrant as I did not put in the necessary effort. 

 

P.S. I do not expect any response to my post as this goes against the "entitled" foreigner's perception of how things should work. Readers will quickly dismiss the comment and move on to a comment that fits into their world of thinking.

Edited October 17, 2020 by riverhigh
after thought

[SomchaiCNX]

4 hours ago, micmichd said:

Revenge towards a country that has fought the spreading of the pandemic so effectively is certainly the last thing Thailand needs. 

Nothing to do with revenge regarding covid.  Imposing the same rules and restrictions to Thai people in your own country would only be fair for everybody. That goes for every country not only Thailand. For example you can not buy land in XYZ people of XYZ should not be allowed the same in your country. 

[Dexxter]

3 hours ago, Peterphuket said:

Complicating this is that after 10 months away my wife has moved on and is forcing me into a divorce... no happy return to the LoS

Nothing is permanent in Thailand, not even a "loving" wife. I am sorry that she is leaving you because of being apart for 10 months. A loyal wife would wait years for a husband to return.

I would never commit to anything in Thailand that I am not prepared to abandon. I managed to get out on March 26th on the last commercial flight out and have not been able to return since. I am not too concerned about that because all I left behind was a rented condo with a few items of clothing and an old computer. I can just stop paying rent when I no longer care to return. However, my Thai wife is living there for now and it is also her home so I keep paying. All the furniture belongs to the condo and my wife owns the rest of the stuff there.

All my assets and income remain in Australia. Once things settle down a little, I will try bringing my wife back to Australia but as far as I am concerned Thailand is off my list of places to visit again. Over the years, my wife has suggested buying a condo so we don't waste money on rent but my answer was always a firm NO. I refuse to invest anything valuable in a country from which I can be kicked out at a moment's notice.

[SomchaiCNX]

3 hours ago, Bangkok Basha said:

Ask any ordinary Thai not from a hi-so background what their experience has been applying for a U.S. or U.K. visa before you talk about the "same restrictions" as on Thai people. Furthermore, no visitors to the U.S. not on a student visa can remain longer than six months a time. There are no "retirement" visas in the U.S.- even for wealthy EU or Canadian citizens who live part of the year in Florida. I feel we've been lucky that Thailand has allowed foreigners to retire here for as long as they have, but like other posters, I think those days are drawing to an end. 

Your are correct both the US and UK are strict ???? for a reason, most of those apply have family and think that's enough to have a visa so they can work over there and become rich. The US will protect their citizens even they do stupid things in North Korea, Iran, Irak or Myanmar (mostly missionaries) your country will help you. The UK will not. They are doing what I propose, the rest of Europe, for example, is not. I'm not retired yet ???? I'm one of the few who started with nothing over here almost 30 years ago and is getting tired of all restrictions they impose(d) on me during my stay in Thailand. The whole covid <deleted> forced me to delay for at least another 5 years. Australia is strict as well but some agents found some back doors (for non white people).

 

[elliss]

8 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

Will they have a problem withdrawing 800,000 baht each From a Thai Bank and more importantly transferring it out of the country? Will there be barriers?

 

  Sure , you can bring money into the Kingdom .

     Take out , ? ..

[Neeranam]

56 minutes ago, riverhigh said:

Definition of an immigrant "is a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country".   To legally become an immigrant in the eyes of the Thai governemnt you need  a permanent residendcy commonly known in farang circles as a PR. Very difficut to get and near impossible if you are an average retiree (I put myslef in that category). None of the people mentioned in this article are "permanent residents" but unfortunately want to be treated as such. While the people mentioend in this article have my sysmpathy, it does not appear they put in the effort to become permanent residents. If you want to adopt Thailand as your country, you have to get Thailand to adopt you. This takes  a lot of effort.  When I came here 16 years ago the PR was ridiculed as being too expensive and not woth the effort. That may be the case but I take off my hat to those who learnt the Thai language to pass the test, start a business/get a job, go through rigorous procedures, inspections, documentation, etc to become a permanent resident. IMHO living in Thailand is a privililedge that has to be earned and not a right. Similar to orignator of this post I do not consider myself as an immnigrant as I did not put in the necessary effort. 

 

P.S. I do not expect any response to my post as this goes against the "entitled" foreigner's perception of how things should work. Readers will quickly dismiss the comment and move on to a comment that fits into their world of thinking.

Good post. There is another way - to apply for Thai citizenship. This is the path I took and although quite simple, I had to make some sacrifices to get it. 

When I looked at PR, it was only 9000 baht. I would have gone for it if the Thai government hadn't made the requirements for citizenship much easier, in 2008. 

Good point about the language; I'd say that 90+% of retirees can't hold a simple conversation in Thai. How many Thais go to the US, UK, OZ and are too lazy or entitled to learn English? If immigration made passing a simple Thai exam to get yearly extensions there would be an outcry!!

I have Thai friends who said they need to invest 16,000,000 baht as ONE of the requirements to retire in the USA, where their relatives live. 

Absolutely, being allowed to live here permanently is a privilege, not a right. Thailand is developing and trying to be like developed nations and I am happy for them to tighten up immigration laws; I know many that are here who don't qualify to be here - buying visas from immigration/agencies/lying about being in education/volunteering/border-hoppers. 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Neeranam
speling is attrosious

[thai006]

im just arrived today lol

[madisongy]

6 hours ago, Mark mark said:

(If you can get a Thai AIS ? Sim and have roaming switched on, then you can transfer Money around from your account IN Thailand … 

My wife kept her AIS sim when we came to the US in 2019, and that was such a great move.   She can still pay our condo bills and do her banking.   We planned to travel back in March of this year, but now hoping we can get there by March of next year without all the quarantine nonsense.   

[madisongy]

17 minutes ago, thai006 said:

im just arrived today lol

Congrats dude..........you arrived to quarantine or did you get back to Khon Kaen?    Hey, either way you made it back.  I'm sure it wasn't easy.

[Huckenfell]

One of the reasons why i was very cautious not to put money into a Thai bank.

[smylee52]

2 hours ago, riverhigh said:

Definition of an immigrant "is a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country".   To legally become an immigrant in the eyes of the Thai governemnt you need  a permanent residendcy commonly known in farang circles as a PR. Very difficut to get and near impossible if you are an average retiree (I put myslef in that category). None of the people mentioned in this article are "permanent residents" but unfortunately want to be treated as such. While the people mentioend in this article have my sysmpathy, it does not appear they put in the effort to become permanent residents. If you want to adopt Thailand as your country, you have to get Thailand to adopt you. This takes  a lot of effort.  When I came here 16 years ago the PR was ridiculed as being too expensive and not woth the effort. That may be the case but I take off my hat to those who learnt the Thai language to pass the test, start a business/get a job, go through rigorous procedures, inspections, documentation, etc to become a permanent resident. IMHO living in Thailand is a priviledge that has to be earned and not a right. Similar to orignator of this post I do not consider myself IMHas an immnigrant as I did not put in the necessary effort. 

 

A privilige ?? <deleted>. This is exactly the attitude of the Thai policy makers which make it less and less appealing as a retirement country . Foreigners visit/retire for hot weather , sandy beaches , women , food and all available at relative discounts in a relatively safe country . You are fooling yourself if you think it is anything special beyond that . 

 

Foreigners entering Thailand should be treated for what it is : a business arrangement . We bring money into the economy that provides a livelihood for millions of Thai's . We are simply customers of the country and should be given the respect and support any good business gives to it's customers . No  thailand is priviliged to have us come and support an economy that can not sustain it's population without Foreign money being injected ino it . Hopefully one day they will have a government that shows appreciation for visitors to their country .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sambum]

6 hours ago, nickmondo said:

i totally agree.

people who left Thailand after 20th March only have themselves to blame and should stop moaning.

So what if someone died

So what if you needed to do something

All the stranded made their own choice, so deal with it.

How can anyone moan if they left after Thailand had closed.

Anyone here with the slightest amount of intelligence could see it would be impossible to return.

I feel sorry for the ones who left here prior to March 2020.

But even they would have known that the country was closing on March 20th 2020

So do I have sympathy for them?  Yes, but just a bit.

"So what if someone died"

 

Think I'll put your name forward for " Humanitarian of the Year" award! 

[10baht]

13 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Strange that the article does not mention that there is now a relatively easy solution for all 3 cases.  All of them can now apply for a 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa which would allow them to get the COE to return to Thailand.

 

What they say and what they do are 2 different animals  of a different color. And if they were trust worthy it is still and expensive task, with almost impossible time lines and unreasonable requirements. 

[Kadilo]

8 minutes ago, sambum said:

"So what if someone died"

 

Think I'll put your name forward for " Humanitarian of the Year" award! 

Humanitarian? I can think of many more appropriate names. 

[whaleboneman]

15 hours ago, allane said:

If you are writing these stories to get my sympathy, it is not working.  I have a some sympathy for anyone who left in 2019, but it ends there. If you left this year, could you not have foreseen how this thing might have gone ? Even if you could not have seen the exact contours, you should have seen the possibilities.

I was invited in early March to accompany another foreigner who was planning a trip out of Thailand in early April. I "graciously declined". Actually, I did more than that; I successfully persuaded him not to leave. He is still thanking me, though he is in a category where he would have been able to return by now. However, he might have lost his job before he was able to get back.

I have lived in Thailand for 25 years, and never bought a condominium here. Now you know one of the reasons why.

No one foresaw the ramifications of this pandemic. Those that say they did are trying to fool people.

[MRToMRT]

15 minutes ago, 10baht said:

What they say and what they do are 2 different animals  of a different color. And if they were trust worthy it is still and expensive task, with almost impossible time lines and unreasonable requirements. 

I agree its expensive and difficult but a lot of people are now starting to achieve the O-A return according to first hand reports on Facebook.

 

I am considering it myself based on what reports I have read but I still think its going to get easier in a couple of months or so.

Edited October 17, 2020 by MRToMRT

[10baht]

What you write is not correct > it is ONLY when applying for a Special Tourist Visa (STV) that you need to travel from a “LOW-RISK” AREA.

When meeting the criteria (e.g. married to a Thai national, or with a Non Imm O-A Visa) you can apply for the COE at your Thai Embassy/Consulate abroad.

 

You are very naive. Just try, oh you can apply all you want but do not expect to see you COE any time soon. Same for an Elite visa.

The Thai Gov't is run by the military , not trained civilians who may be slow, but can actually accomplish reasonable outcomes.

[MRToMRT]

5 minutes ago, 10baht said:

You are very naive. Just try, oh you can apply all you want but do not expect to see you COE any time soon.

CoEs are being issued in hours now, there are many reports now from UK of CoE phase 1 being pre-approved in a couple of hours and phase 2 (with hotel and flight details) just as quickly

[sncoem]

15 hours ago, allane said:

If you are writing these stories to get my sympathy, it is not working.  I have a some sympathy for anyone who left in 2019, but it ends there. If you left this year, could you not have foreseen how this thing might have gone ? Even if you could not have seen the exact contours, you should have seen the possibilities.

 

Thanks to you I didn't have to read any further

This is the only truth, no pity no mercy for the one who left.

 

 

[DB58]

15 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Strange that the article does not mention that there is now a relatively easy solution for all 3 cases.  All of them can now apply for a 1-year Non Imm O-A Visa which would allow them to get the COE to return to Thailand.

Not so easy; currently in the USA they require the application and all related documents including confirmation of flight and quarantine accommodations 15-days prior to flight. Gathering the documents takes 2-3 weeks. The only flights available are Thai repatriation flights, and are only showing flights through the end of October, and mostly full. Simple stated, today it’s not logistically possible to apply for the visa because of the timeline requirements imposed by Thailand. 
Possible  solutions; would be posting available flights further in advance, or allowing flight date to be changed after confirmation; this would allow ample time to gather and submit application and meet the 15-day prior to flight requirement.

[my friend you]

11 hours ago, Greenhill said:

 

But the app doesn't work from outside Thailand!!

it works. you must disallow the K-app on your phone to read your position/location

OR else use a VPN, e.g. Nord VPN, and select Thailand as location. Nord VPN is available for PC and smartphone at one price.

works with me

[Jonathan Swift]

17 hours ago, allane said:

If you are writing these stories to get my sympathy, it is not working.  I have a some sympathy for anyone who left in 2019, but it ends there. If you left this year, could you not have foreseen how this thing might have gone ? Even if you could not have seen the exact contours, you should have seen the possibilities.

I was invited in early March to accompany another foreigner who was planning a trip out of Thailand in early April. I "graciously declined". Actually, I did more than that; I successfully persuaded him not to leave. He is still thanking me, though he is in a category where he would have been able to return by now. However, he might have lost his job before he was able to get back.

I have lived in Thailand for 25 years, and never bought a condominium here. Now you know one of the reasons why.

You must be an American. Your proud declaration as to your lack of "sympathy" is telling. Your sanctimonious lecture on what people could or should have foreseen at a time when everything we thought we knew or could have predicted about the immediate future was upended, reflects a reprehensible detachment from the experiences, the confusion, and legitimate concerns of decent people who are doing the best they can. Just because you happened to exercise caution at a particular moment of clarity makes you lucky as to the timing, but you have no justification to be  looking down on others just because you lucked out. Not everyone is blessed with your god like all knowing wisdom. After 25 years in Thailand it's surprising that you haven't acquired more sensitivity and compassion, but if you were already that arrogant when you got here, and an American, well some things don't change do they?

Edited October 17, 2020 by Jonathan Swift

[Jonathan Swift]

17 hours ago, Peabody said:

Anyone on the "retirement" extension have any success in getting it renewed at their local consulate, or do we all just lose those too?

I was told by my US consulate that it cannot be done. Therefore you would likely have to do it all over. You can get a 60 day or 6 month tourist visa and then in Thailand convert to retirement visa. After they allow tourist visas. However I was told by the same Washington DC consulate that non O holders can in fact apply online for a certificate of entry. This is for US citizens, on the Washington DC Thai consulate website. I don't know about other countries. This is what it says about types of visas not allowed: "Currently, the following types of visas are NOT permitted to enter Thailand: Tourists visa holders (TR), Transit passengers (TS), Sports visa holders (S), Monks and other religious visa holders (R) and their spouses or children, Volunteers (O), and non-formal students visa holders (such as language schools, diving schools, boxing schools). 
Due to a high number of infection rate, the APEC card holders and the applicants who are currently in the USA and wish to obtain Special Tourist Visa (STV) do not fall under the categories that could enter Thailand at the moment, please check back regularly for any updates."Oddly, it doesn't prohibit either type of retirement visa. There is a pop up menu showing the types of visas allowed shows "non O residence permit" which I believe is  the non O retirement visa. I have actually been told by immigration employees that there is no such thing as the non O "retirement" visa, that there is only the O-A. That highlights the confusion we all see. For the US application You must provide copy of an e ticket for your flight, and copy of pre paid quarantine. That means you have to spend a lot of money up front yet not know for sure that you will get the COE. I am going to try this, and accept that there is a risk of being turned away at the airport. It looks more likely than not that it will work, and I can't stand the idea of being stuck in the US for the winter. I think the bottom line is if you get the certificate of entry then you get in. This whole thing looks like a matter of pushing all the right buttons on a confusing machine, and if you punch all the right ones you get in. I have a Thai lady friend who works at the airport and I will ask her to ask airport immigration about this. 

[Jonathan Swift]

17 hours ago, 19DL86 said:

A slight nuance to the earlier post #1 teachers.  Whilst I see that TVF and Rooster are doing so in good faith and with compassion, to try and make those of us who might be living under a large rock,(therefore unaware) of these scenarios.  But pressuring the current administration and Immigration, not a good move.

Ref Richard Barrow and the TM30 climb down. Just my opinion.

I've lived here a long while and the writing has been on the wall for a large part of the last 10 years, the letters growing larger year after year.  But some people choose to ignore this.  I feel, as do many Expats we are not so much welcomed, nor tolerated as we once might have felt.  Too much shifting sands for my like,ing to warrant investment here.  There's a growing Nationalism right the way across the World from US to UK an increasing hostility to foreigners, and immigrants.  Thailand is no different.

I see a new "flag" being waved how many of those here will ignore this "writing in the wall" - it's started with the "Elite Visa" investments, then the enforcement of funds seasoning in Thai banks for Non O visa applicants.  Then the STV and more recently the starkly frightening requirement of 3MilBt deposit in Govt Bonds or bank, to return to your own Condo.  So on and so.

Only a few days have passed since I read in these very pages that the banks aren't guaranteeing deposits in excess of 1MilBt, after next year, and so too other alarming stories coming out of the financial institutions.

To me it's evident Thailand is financially over stressed and on their way to hell in a hand cart.

Many of these foreigners unable to return or access their accounts might be eyed as easy prey.  Those nominee shareholder "shelf" Companies owning land and houses to circumvent property ownership laws, might be low hanging fruit.

Be very cautious don't ever think what happened in Zimbabwe 40 years ago can't be repeated.  We re living in perilous times and Chinas current attitude and influence must not be taken too lightly.  

Just my thoughts and not in any way professional.
 

your thoughts are wise and prudent, and quite appropriate. For those concerned about funds in Thai banks, for funds transfers into Thailand I recommend OFX. For transfers out of Thailand, I recommend you keep your funds in Kasikorn Bank. You can use their phone app to internationally transfer your funds in your local currency, the fee is about 250 baht, and your funds arrive at your local bank within 24 hours or less. I have been using that process to show my monthly income deposits and then to retrieve my funds as needed back in the US. 

[Derek B]

14 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

No problem sending funds overseas from Thailand with the K-Bank app. 

 

In fact, it literally couldn't get any easier. 

What is the proper name for K-Bank?

[kiwikeith]

18 hours ago, 19DL86 said:

A slight nuance to the earlier post #1 teachers.  Whilst I see that TVF and Rooster are doing so in good faith and with compassion, to try and make those of us who might be living under a large rock,(therefore unaware) of these scenarios.  But pressuring the current administration and Immigration, not a good move.

Ref Richard Barrow and the TM30 climb down. Just my opinion.

I've lived here a long while and the writing has been on the wall for a large part of the last 10 years, the letters growing larger year after year.  But some people choose to ignore this.  I feel, as do many Expats we are not so much welcomed, nor tolerated as we once might have felt.  Too much shifting sands for my like,ing to warrant investment here.  There's a growing Nationalism right the way across the World from US to UK an increasing hostility to foreigners, and immigrants.  Thailand is no different.

I see a new "flag" being waved how many of those here will ignore this "writing in the wall" - it's started with the "Elite Visa" investments, then the enforcement of funds seasoning in Thai banks for Non O visa applicants.  Then the STV and more recently the starkly frightening requirement of 3MilBt deposit in Govt Bonds or bank, to return to your own Condo.  So on and so.

Only a few days have passed since I read in these very pages that the banks aren't guaranteeing deposits in excess of 1MilBt, after next year, and so too other alarming stories coming out of the financial institutions.

To me it's evident Thailand is financially over stressed and on their way to hell in a hand cart.

Many of these foreigners unable to return or access their accounts might be eyed as easy prey.  Those nominee shareholder "shelf" Companies owning land and houses to circumvent property ownership laws, might be low hanging fruit.

Be very cautious don't ever think what happened in Zimbabwe 40 years ago can't be repeated.  We re living in perilous times and Chinas current attitude and influence must not be taken too lightly.  

Just my thoughts and not in any way professional.
 

Very well said, I might add,,the stories TV published are nowhere near as bad as my friends stuck here in NZ, my own story is worse than those published. Thailand is a Total train wreck, if our governments did what Thailand is doing to Thai people overseas this would probably stop. Violation of human rights is a crime, but hey the world thrives on cruelty to humans, and now humans or the people that rule humans are destroying animals, the planet, and humans.

Buying bunkers is the new normal for the sociopathic maniacs that reek havoc on this world. 

[Derek B]

11 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

I was told this by a Thai colleague so cannot confirm with a link. 

 

I will speak with him again this coming week as to where he obtained the information.

Just ask your Bank's Customer service rep......................that would be the best way to go.