Thai Slavery In The Middle East

[WaiWai]

So with that so easy, why bother with 'innocent' girls from a factory? Just means more work/hassle to get her to function properly.

Perhaps the experienced prostitutes are more likely to see the benefits in going freelance that you have highlighted, being more aware of the way the industry operates, so the "manager" fears losing control of them. Such prostitutes could be expected to be more "wordly" in general.

However, if the women/men are working illegally, they can be made to work virtually as slaves, so the extent of control and economic benefit to the "manager" is far greater.

Just guessing... anyone else have an idea ?

Edited May 4, 2007 by WaiWai

[WaiWai]

Found a good deal of (disturbing) information at http://www.american.edu/TED/thaiwomen.htm , including the following :

Recruiting women and girls for prostitution was fiercely competitive. In the rural regions, agents are usually local people or relatives and friends of local people who recruit directly from the villages. This is a change from the 1960s and 1970s when women moved to urban areas to find work and were recruited into the sex industry once there. A second recent development reported was that women were being moved directly to other countries, instead of serving a period of time in the nightclubs and brothels of Bangkok and Pataya. Because of greater demands for women perceived to be free of AIDS infection, women from remote areas and younger women become prime targets for recruiters.

[bina]

well we received our release. i was told by the nice (russian) woman from immigration, that i was 'too straight" (i.e. follow the rules to closely and was being to nice or too helpful towards the employer); she had tried to hint to me that we could have ignored the visa problem and anon wouldnt have had to go up north. however, i was so terrified that the immigration police, or his 'owner' would cause trouble just when we were so close to getting the visa straightend out , that iw as afraid to do anything at all. an israeli probably would have just ignored the visa deal. maybe i'm too square.

this leads me to the women slavery thing: unless a person is very sure of herself and knows all the rules and regulations, AND have a place to run to, she/he are at the mercy of those that know more than him/her, or CLAIM that they know more then him/her. that essentially is what happened to me: i wasnt sure that the stamp was good enough and the lady in immigration couldnt tell me straight out so i was 'cowed' and submitted to them. most women in prostitution are told basic lies and believe them. they have no access to rights and laws and so feel powerless to do anything. they are afraid of the immigration police and afraid of their 'owners' and they hae no where to go. thai workers here are told that their 'new' employer is taking them to the bank to give them their wages, and are 'arrested' by fake immigration people cause they dont know to ask for id, and dont read the language to verify. they are forcibly deported.

i was unable to talk to anyone that cuold verify anon's visa predicament so felt rather powerless and i have no money so lawyers were not an option.

knowlege is empowerment which is why the filipinas get better treatment and complain much more to authorities w/o fear. they read and speak english for the most part and they have an active church group in israel that hands out info and helps for legal advice.

i am reliant on rumours and the good will of people that often dont know or dont want to say what the rules are. and i am intelligent opinionated assertive and strong minded. imagine what an uneducated foreign woman feels like in similar situations.

there are many many cases here of women brought in thru egypt (in baggage trunks, etc) to be prostitutes here. they are starved, passports are withheld, beaten, and released often in the desert and told to walk to meet up with the next part of the smuggling brigade (beduins are good at this stuff) who take advantage of the 'property' until it reaches tel aviv for work.

most women might think they are going to be something different thanprostitues or think its prostitution in good surroundings. they do not know that they will be smuggled starved beaten etc before they arrive. often they are locked in for weeks on end to work, before they are cowed enough to keep working without complaining.

i met a lawyer who works for workers rights/women in slavery here, these are storied from him. btw, he charged me 200 $ hour for legal advice; his other work is probono.

[DirkGently]

As we in the UK are wringing our hands and pointlessly begging forgiveness after abolishing slavery 200 years ago the practice goes on in less civilised areas of the world.

Indeed the practice still goes on and is sanctioned in 'the good book' of Arab lands.

[bina]

dirk gently:

it has nothing to do with arab or muslem; it has everything to do with those that have money and those that dont. even 'normal' americans or brits buy clothing food toys etc made by slave labour in other lands where people are more poor and willing to do anything for money that they need. take at look at the diamond trade mine conditions. and the sweatshops in the states in 1930s (my family worked in those as theyw ere immigrants in new york)...there are places like that in the states now holding thai workers (a manpower company that a thai friend of mine worked for was sued for 'caging in' thai workers and not permitting them contact with the outside. american neighbhors didnt even notice. ) i found the law suit in labour department listings when checking out the company.

nowadays thai migrant workers coming to the middle east are more knowlegeable about their rights; i notice more complaints about wages and conditions than there used to be. partially this is due to flyers that we translated to thai explaining rights and laws, and partially, the thai themselves, thru word of mouth, help eachother. also, the new generation of men are slightly better educated, have had more exposure to city life, tv, internet, etc, and therefore are more willing to demand what they should be getting. there is something of the battered women syndrom among exploited workers also. most thai men i know are still willing to suffer bad conditions and low pay as it is still worth it for them although becomign less so. they are gamblers in a way. they take a chance for the pot of gold. and they all hope their sons wont have to come and work as migrant workers here.

women in general are more vulnerable due to physical force being applied or threatened; or harm to their children or family being threatened. they feel themselves weaker. as i stated before, even i as a modern female who has worked in an all male profession (manager of safety and hygiene in industry i was one of three women to do the course when it first started) still feel vulnerable to physical threats when facing bullying men, and i;m not sure the police would always take my side (living in a still macho society, israel).

its very easy to blame OTHERS. i live in the middle east. breathe it, eat it (yeah humous!), drive in it, work in it, deal with it, employ it. jewish, muslem arabic israeli. and i dont blame them for IT. IT IS FOUND ALL OVER THE WORLD.

THE IT IS SOCIAL INEQUALITY AND EXPLOITATION. JUST IN SOME PLACES IT IS CAMOFLOUGED OR WHITE WASHED.

my father once put it well, when we were toking teens: the next time u take a toke, he said, remember who gets the profits, and its not the farmers. its the owners.

and for those of u who doubt the existance of white slavery, go to work in a center for abused women, or for a workers' rights organization. speak with people, ask questions behind fancy store fronts. go in to kitchens of swank restaraunts. when u go to a green house , check and see who is working in the background (if the bosses will let u, i almost got killed that way on a moshav down south). your neighbhors could be the ones employing some illegal immigrant who is willing to work for next to nothing just to survive. u, by employing someone as cheap labour, are just adding to the exploitation.

so much for soapbox lectures. having said all that, debating if i will argue about some leftover days pay the employer up north now owes anon who will be coming home on monday. he was paid 100 shekel an hour, for five days pay in advance so anon could buy food; now he will work three more days but not sure how to get the three days leftover pay. it will cost more to drive up there and demand the money. and really, i;d just rather anon get home now that we've finally finished this slavery type situation. probably if i was a male i would be on the phone threatening the guy or go and face him off. being thai and woman style, no confrontation. just want to get out of the situation.

bina

israel

Edited May 4, 2007 by bina

[endure]

Thanks for all your posts, bina. We're lucky to have people like you posting on Thaivisa.

[IMA_FARANG]

I have visited the middle east on numerous occasions and i have been very disturbed by what i have seen regarding the overseas workers. Most of these overseas workers that i have met have been given a 2 year contract working in the 'land of milk and honey'. They soon find out that the 2 year contract say for a factory worker will become an open ended contract working in a brothel.

The way this works is that the local Arab business owners sponsor the overseas workers for a designated period of time and pay a sponsorship fee to engage them in work in the Middle East. This is normally organised through an agent.

When the workers arrive they are taken to the factories/brothels and they have their passports taken from them until they can repay the sponsorship money to their sponsor. Of course they can never pay off the sponsorship money because of the interest charges. They have nowhere to go and no one to complain to and they are screwed without a passport.

I have seen this and i have spoken to people that are actually in this terrible position so i know that it exists. I can not believe just how hypocritical the Arab muslims can be as this goes against all of their so called beliefs.

Slavery report

My Thai girlfriend's brother (this is about 15 years ago at least) was offered a job in Saudi working for a janitorial company in Saudi Arabia, by a FARANG RUN agency in Thailand.

1. Firstly he had to pay the comapny 5 or 6000 Baht in order to get a Thai passport to leave the country.

2. He then had to pay to get the job (basically "tea" money for the job)

3. When he arrived his passport was taken for "safekeeping".

4. He then discovered he owed money to the company for the transportation to Saudi.

5. He had to pay for his housing (which was a room shared with 6 or 7 others).

6. His salary (specified in his contract) was less than 1/2 of he had been offered.

7. He had to work more hours than he had been told for this salary.

8. He was told that complaining would get him deported from Saudi and he would go back to Thailand with no money.

After 3 months he borrowed money from relatives in Thailand to get out of Saudi.

It turned out that this FARANG agent had been paid a fee in advance by the Saudi company who he was to provide the workers for each worker he provided. The saudi company also paid for the transportaion for each worker. (That was the transportation that my girlfriend's brother was told he had to pay for).

[meemiathai]

bina, you are a beautiful woman.

[Naam]

As we in the UK are wringing our hands and pointlessly begging forgiveness after abolishing slavery 200 years ago the practice goes on in less civilised areas of the world.

Indeed the practice still goes on and is sanctioned in 'the good book' of Arab lands.

it is always amusing reading a load of uneducated BULL... like yours

[DirkGently]

Thanks for the insight Bina. I guess I stand.....exactly where I stood before. You do make many good points, but you do dwell on migrant workers and not what we would term 'slaves'.

Dr Naam, as you are a doctor (in what i wonder) you should have knowledge about my comments, or do I need to hold your hand as we pass into the wonderful word of google. Instead of calling it BULL, why don't you try and refute my view in a similar way to Bina, or is that not possible?

The slave trade was well underway in the sandy countries long before the British made it a buisness and it still goes on now.

I would not dream of making anyone endure an anti muslim rant, but the PC brigade choose to ignore facts.

[bina]

thanx guys and gals

edit to my above post, as there was a typo: anon got 100 shekels A DAY not AN HOUR (my typo i guess wishful thinking ha ha.). his wages covered the food he bought since the employer didnt bother to get him rice (the usual, and only,perk of the job for a thai) and his own transportation : again,the company or employer are supposed to foot the bill but go and complain

btw; the situation that ima farang described is identical to most other manpower copanies for migrant work... just go in to the internet and google agricultural workers and companies and u will see pics of happy thais picking apples, pineapples, peppers etc... with great explanations about housing pay and perks....

bina

[plachon]

I can understand that attitute, I don't like buying things from Islamic countries, I do buy some but try to limit it to oil. BTW where are you from? nothing personal just wanna return the gesture.

UK. And you're welcome to boycott it, until such time as it unilaterally withdraws troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. In the meantime, you really ought to get your oil addiction treated.

[meom]

3. When he arrived his passport was taken for "safekeeping".

Unless you're on a visit visa or have a multiple visa it don't really matter in Saudi whether you keep your passport or not. In the end you can only leave the country after your employer/sponsor obtains an exit/re-entry visa for you.

[plachon]

That's one of the many reasons why I boycott Israeli products, especially food in the UK supermarkets. I Somehow, I doubt v. much, if any, of the profit would see its way back to the Thai or Nepali worker who grew or picked it.

And just to show I'm not only discriminating against Israel, I also refuse to buy Chinese and US products as well. Nothing personal, you understand, but would rather not support rogue nations, human rights abusers, despots and slave drivers wherever possible.

How much of the "profits" do you think that Thai workers on Thai farms make?

What a big load of steaming bull-sh*t!

Luckily, most Thais working on farms in the Kingdom are the owners of their friends/relations. Thus any profits made, accrue straight to the owner, while he/she/they are often quietly sitting on an asset which is steadily growing in value. Not quite the same as Thai workers in Israel or Burmese workers in Thailand, who are often under semi-slavery conditions as well.

[Naam]

Dr Naam, as you are a doctor (in what i wonder) you should have knowledge about my comments, or do I need to hold your hand as we pass into the wonderful word of google.

i am a (retired) physicist and i don't need anybody to hold my hand nor do i need to google when slavery and/or arab countries are concerned. i have my own views and opinions of the Middle East where i worked and lived in different countries for nearly 1½ decades and still visit twice a year old friends over there.

this thread started with a reference to a few ladies who unfortunately were tricked into prostitution in Bahrain. after that a lot of nonsensical generalizing and unjustified as well as unqualified bashing started.

you Sir, topped it with the uneducated remark:

"Indeed the practice [slavery] still goes on and is sanctioned in 'the good book' of Arab lands."

unless you can specify "good book" and "arab lands" and submit details i call your remark bullshit. my view is that you have no idea of "arab lands" but of that "no idea" you possess a lot.

[Naam]

Bina,

i have a bunch of jewish friends who have close ties to Israel and with whom i meet once in a while to discuss ME politics. they live outside Israel but the majority of them have shares in various businesses. except for one who employs a filipina as a nurse for his old mother in Haifa i had no idea that Israel had that many foreign migrant workers. thanks for sharing your knowledge.

[zaza]

Thanks for all your posts, bina. We're lucky to have people like you posting on Thaivisa.

I second this!! Bina

Bina,

Thanks for your wise post.

It is really have nothing with being arabic or muslim, this scams are all over the world just like the Albanian teenagers who are exported to Germany and Scotland to work in bruthel.

FYI (all posters) the owners of such businesses do not care what is the nationality or religion of their slaves ,they only care for good profit .

The Gulf countries also bring women slaves from Iraq after 2003 although these women r muslims and arabs too.

I have a friend working as a sex slave in US for an Amircan guy( Catholic ) just to get the green card,her contract was to cook arabic food in Chicago resturant.

It's just about bad ppl using poor ppl.

Edited May 5, 2007 by zaza

[sbk]

Does anyone remember the case in LA of Thai workers brought to LA to work in a factory owned by Thai people? They were locked in and treated, essentially, as slaves.

The LA times article here for those who've forgotten.

Seems to me this isn't just an "Arab" thing, but rather a global problem and has more to do with power and greed than race or religion.

[lannarebirth]

Thanks for all your posts, bina. We're lucky to have people like you posting on Thaivisa.

I second this!! Bina

Bina,

Thanks for your wise post.

It is really have nothing with being arabic or muslim, this scams are all over the world just like the Albanian teenagers who are exported to Germany and Scotland to work in bruthel.

FYI (all posters) the owners of such businesses do not care what is the nationality or religion of their slaves ,they only care for good profit .

The Gulf countries also bring women slaves from Iraq after 2003 although these women r muslims and arabs too.

I have a friend working as a sex slave in US for an Amircan guy( Catholic ) just to get the green card,her contract was to cook arabic food in Chicago resurant.

It's just about bad ppl using poor ppl.

I think there's something to that zaza, but there are definitely countries and cultures that are more accepting of these practices. The last time I was in Saudi Arabia (about 10 years ago) Bangladeshi longshoremen were used for offloading vessels. The Saudi contractor employed Sudanese (giants compared to Bangladeshis) to beat them with a cane as they worked if they seemed at all slow. I removed the Sudanese physically after warning them many times and nearly caused an international incident. (thankfully ships are sovereign). Strangely they were all employed by a British stevedoring company, who when I queried them said they were compelled to hire the Saudi longshoring contractor. The Bangladeshis were paid 35 US cents per day, worked 12 hour shifts, ate one meal consisting of watery rice and a fish head, and slept 30 to a room on bare floors. When we departed Ad Dammam a pre departure search netted 18 Bangladeshi stowaways seeking to escape their servitude. As we were accompamied in this search by shore agents I was compelled to abide by their authority and handover the stowaways. Anyway, this wasn't my first experience with Middle Eastern labor/slave practices, but I never went back and never will. That said, the Chinese and North Koreans are still worse.

[zaza]

Thanks for all your posts, bina. We're lucky to have people like you posting on Thaivisa.

I second this!! Bina

Bina,

Thanks for your wise post.

It is really have nothing with being arabic or muslim, this scams are all over the world just like the Albanian teenagers who are exported to Germany and Scotland to work in bruthel.

FYI (all posters) the owners of such businesses do not care what is the nationality or religion of their slaves ,they only care for good profit .

The Gulf countries also bring women slaves from Iraq after 2003 although these women r muslims and arabs too.

I have a friend working as a sex slave in US for an Amircan guy( Catholic ) just to get the green card,her contract was to cook arabic food in Chicago resurant.

It's just about bad ppl using poor ppl.

I think there's something to that zaza, but there are definitely countries and cultures that are more accepting of these practices. The last time I was in Saudi Arabia (about 10 years ago) Bangladeshi longshoremen were used for offloading vessels. The Saudi contractor employed Sudanese (giants compared to Bangladeshis) to beat them with a cane as they worked if they seemed at all slow. I removed the Sudanese physically after warning them many times and nearly caused an international incident. (thankfully ships are sovereign). Strangely they were all employed by a British stevedoring company, who when I queried them said they were compelled to hire the Saudi longshoring contractor. The Bangladeshis were paid 35 US cents per day, worked 12 hour shifts, ate one meal consisting of watery rice and a fish head, and slept 30 to a room on bare floors. When we departed Ad Dammam a pre departure search netted 18 Bangladeshi stowaways seeking to escape their servitude. As we were accompamied in this search by shore agents I was compelled to abide by their authority and handover the stowaways. Anyway, this wasn't my first experience with Middle Eastern labor/slave practices, but I never went back and never will. That said, the Chinese and North Koreans are still worse.

I agree with u, and u can search for the labor in Dubai too and the scandals there too.

Same as everywhere in the world . as SBK said its a global tragedy.

[endure]

I think there's something to that zaza, but there are definitely countries and cultures that are more accepting of these practices. The last time I was in Saudi Arabia (about 10 years ago) Bangladeshi longshoremen were used for offloading vessels. The Saudi contractor employed Sudanese (giants compared to Bangladeshis) to beat them with a cane as they worked if they seemed at all slow. I removed the Sudanese physically after warning them many times and nearly caused an international incident. (thankfully ships are sovereign). Strangely they were all employed by a British stevedoring company,

Gray Mackenzie?

[lannarebirth]

I think there's something to that zaza, but there are definitely countries and cultures that are more accepting of these practices. The last time I was in Saudi Arabia (about 10 years ago) Bangladeshi longshoremen were used for offloading vessels. The Saudi contractor employed Sudanese (giants compared to Bangladeshis) to beat them with a cane as they worked if they seemed at all slow. I removed the Sudanese physically after warning them many times and nearly caused an international incident. (thankfully ships are sovereign). Strangely they were all employed by a British stevedoring company,

Gray Mackenzie?

I do not recall the firms name. Usually I don't have much to do with them. leaving it to the agent instead. This was an exception.

[lannarebirth]

Thanks for all your posts, bina. We're lucky to have people like you posting on Thaivisa.

I second this!! Bina

Bina,

Thanks for your wise post.

It is really have nothing with being arabic or muslim, this scams are all over the world just like the Albanian teenagers who are exported to Germany and Scotland to work in bruthel.

FYI (all posters) the owners of such businesses do not care what is the nationality or religion of their slaves ,they only care for good profit .

The Gulf countries also bring women slaves from Iraq after 2003 although these women r muslims and arabs too.

I have a friend working as a sex slave in US for an Amircan guy( Catholic ) just to get the green card,her contract was to cook arabic food in Chicago resurant.

It's just about bad ppl using poor ppl.

I think there's something to that zaza, but there are definitely countries and cultures that are more accepting of these practices. The last time I was in Saudi Arabia (about 10 years ago) Bangladeshi longshoremen were used for offloading vessels. The Saudi contractor employed Sudanese (giants compared to Bangladeshis) to beat them with a cane as they worked if they seemed at all slow. I removed the Sudanese physically after warning them many times and nearly caused an international incident. (thankfully ships are sovereign). Strangely they were all employed by a British stevedoring company, who when I queried them said they were compelled to hire the Saudi longshoring contractor. The Bangladeshis were paid 35 US cents per day, worked 12 hour shifts, ate one meal consisting of watery rice and a fish head, and slept 30 to a room on bare floors. When we departed Ad Dammam a pre departure search netted 18 Bangladeshi stowaways seeking to escape their servitude. As we were accompamied in this search by shore agents I was compelled to abide by their authority and handover the stowaways. Anyway, this wasn't my first experience with Middle Eastern labor/slave practices, but I never went back and never will. That said, the Chinese and North Koreans are still worse.

I agree with u, and u can search for the labor in Dubai too and the scandals there too.

Same as everywhere in the world . as SBK said its a global tragedy.

You might be able to find examples from everywhere in the world, but it is the scale and the acceptance of the injustice which is not common everywhere.

[endure]

They used to provide agency/stevedoring services all over the Gulf and the Red Sea. When the Ayatollah moved back into Iran they lost £8 million worth of booze

[zaza]

They used to provide agency/stevedoring services all over the Gulf and the Red Sea. When the Ayatollah moved back into Iran they lost £8 million worth of booze

So they were raged sobered without booze that time

[endure]

We used to carry cargo to Bandar Shahpour (now Bandar Khomeini) up until the revolution. We were one of the first ships back into Iran after it all settled down. The first thing any Iranian who came on board asked was 'Have you got any beer?'

[eljeque]

Just last week in the PI I was reading in a local newspaper how just over 1000 Filipino's had been returned home after having refuge in the PI Embassies in countries like Lebanon, UAE and Saudi.

Given the 1.2 billion USD a month remittance coming to the PI I am sure they do not want to break that golden egg but they do seem to take care of their own when something goes wrong

I lived in Saudi for 8 1/2 years. For the most part, the Embassies of their countries do not give a hoot about the well-being of their fellow nationals in the ME.

[Ulysses G.]

Thanks for all your posts, bina. We're lucky to have people like you posting on Thaivisa.

It's just about bad ppl using poor ppl.

I think there's something to that zaza, but there are definitely countries and cultures that are more accepting of these practices.

Just as some countries, cultures and religions seem more accepting of suicide tactics and targeting innocent civilians for political gain.

[BigSnake]

My Wife's cousin turned up at our door wanted to borrow Bt300000, to pay a broker to sent her Overseas(Jordan) to work, no way we told her, she went away anger as hel_l, but months later her girlfriend was found dead over there beaten and rape. . We told the cousin that could we will happen to her, as I said she went away anger as hel_l but she came back after this happen and thank us and to ask for a loan to open a beauty shop

[bangkokrick]

I have seen this and i have spoken to people that are actually in this terrible position so i know that it exists. I can not believe just how hypocritical the Arab muslims can be as this goes against all of their so called beliefs.

Are you suggesting that every 'Arab Muslim' who lives in the Middle East is guilty of keeping Thai slaves? Or are you just fond of sweeping generalisations?

It appears that you have a problem reading plain English. I did not suggest or intimate that every Arab in the Middle East is keeping slaves. I simply stated that slavery does exist in the Middle East and in my opinion whether it be 1 or 1000's of people its still too many. where is the generalisation?