On 11/21/2020 at 12:29 PM, bodga said:

Whats decent wages?  8 years  ago it was 250 a  day,  now its 500 + benefits minimum, they have no outgoings living here can even grow there own food but dont instead they go out and buy it and fancy drinks with ice etc, and many  even struggle on that want paying daily in some  cases,  just bad management,  a  lad who worked for us  sometime ago is the only one who didnt want money each day and had savings.

Currently paying one lad Burmese 13k going up to 15 k if he stays in the next few  months, started at 12k inc house motorbike, electric  water, fish, rice etc

What you growing money trees to be able to pay them wages? Every thai I know would snap.your hand off for them wages and benefits

On 11/21/2020 at 10:53 AM, Chris.B said:

Where in Thailand is this?

I have the same problem in Korat. 

38 minutes ago, sateuk said:

Every thai I know would snap.your hand off for them wages and benefits

Oh yes, they all want the wages, but very few, if any, want the work that comes with those wages. 

On 11/21/2020 at 1:15 PM, Yellowtail said:

 

Standing in the sun is pretty unpleasant. Factory work generally pays better and is more pleasant.

 

What's minimum wage now, 330? That's 10K a month plus allowances, any overtime and bonuses.

I was paying them 600 baht for half a day and I was there with them and they  didnt have to work hard, wife bought them drinks and food as well so they were a lot better off than working in a factory and if I was able to do it then they were a lot younger than me so there was no reason they couldnt handle it, boils down to laziness in most cases, they just want to sit around and play with their phones

38 minutes ago, seajae said:

I was paying them 600 baht for half a day and I was there with them and they  didnt have to work hard, wife bought them drinks and food as well so they were a lot better off than working in a factory and if I was able to do it then they were a lot younger than me so there was no reason they couldnt handle it, boils down to laziness in most cases, they just want to sit around and play with their phones

 

Most factories either provide food or an additional allowance for food, and people get paid for 30 days for working 5 or six days a week, get overtime and thirty sick days a year. 

 

600 a day is 18,000 a month. Did thy work 12 months a year?

1 hour ago, djayz said:

Oh yes, they all want the wages, but very few, if any, want the work that comes with those wages. 

Are we talking Thailand or UK ?  Come next Summer and the UK is likely to have a hard time fidning staff to pick fruit and veg.

 

PH

Last time I checked my brother in law now gets 500+ per day because there is no young guys to work otherwise. He laughs about it as he also doesn't have to pay rent and it is near by on the motorbike. However, we have to remember it is not 365 days a year. This is near chaiyaphum.

 

For him it is the perfect life, free fitnesss during the day, often free meals too and beers afterwards. He can save a bit too.

Edited November 22, 20205 yr by ChaiyaTH

No more cushy tourist industry. Better get back to basics if you want rice in your bowl.

On 11/21/2020 at 1:47 PM, bodga said:

per  month current guy started at 12k then we upped to 13 soon we  will up to 14 and finally  15 this is 3  months 6  months 12  months  rate

12/13/14/15

Continue counting up to 100,000 a month and I will send you my CV.

20 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Yeah, that has not been my experience, but when when I fail at something others do successfully all over the world, I just try again. You hired one guy as a foreman and gave up. 

 

I'm guessing he was poorly managed. Hiring a foreman doesn't mean you can go out chipping golf-balls all day. 

As a proprietor of a successful Business in the Uk for many years, my management skills are not in doubt, and also I do not play golf FYO

3 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

As a proprietor of a successful Business in the Uk for many years, my management skills are not in doubt, and also I do not play golf FYO

 

FYO?

 

Having worked as a foreman for twelve years in the US and a manager of successful businesses in Thailand for twenty years, India for six years, the UAE for four years and Malaysia for two years, I'm just not that convinced.

 

Most successful business I'm familiar with use foremen in some manner, yet you try it once and give up, and then because you failed, hold anyone up as a fool that does elect to try it. 

 

Again, there are no shortage of successful businesses in Thailand and most of them operate using Thai labor. 

On 11/22/2020 at 2:20 PM, 473geo said:

My understanding of a 'tied cottage' is you offer a salary and the accommodation is offered to the employee as a free incentive. Suppose your workers could have found some cheaper accommodation elsewhere free with family of friends, they would feel you were taking advantage, and others would be quick to tell them so.

Blimey  I thought my sarcasm was pretty  obvious

20 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Last time I checked my brother in law now gets 500+ per day because there is no young guys to work otherwise. He laughs about it as he also doesn't have to pay rent and it is near by on the motorbike. However, we have to remember it is not 365 days a year. This is near chaiyaphum.

 

For him it is the perfect life, free fitnesss during the day, often free meals too and beers afterwards. He can save a bit too.

send him here , latest kid is  leaving December1st after  messing us  around for two weeks  claiming he was  sick when really he  was in BKK  looking for a  new  job, came here when he  had  nothing and no work, hadnt worked for 2  months,  borrowed  money off his friends etc etc 

22 hours ago, sateuk said:

What you growing money trees to be able to pay them wages? Every thai I know would snap.your hand off for them wages and benefits

Forward their names and numbers to me there is a  vacancy December the 1st you can PM me .............IM NOT  joking......just incase  anyone misconstrues  this as some seem to have with my charging them rent of 14  k on a bamboo  house and 500 baht for a litre of water

7 minutes ago, bodga said:

Blimey  I thought my sarcasm was pretty  obvious

Just making a point, I recall building sites when Phuket first started to grow, workers lived in corrugated tin huts made with whatever was available, cooked on fires.

Working life for many Thai is about cash in hand, to spend as they wish, not 'benefits'

1 hour ago, bodga said:

Forward their names and numbers to me there is a  vacancy December the 1st you can PM me .............IM NOT  joking......just incase  anyone misconstrues  this as some seem to have with my charging them rent of 14  k on a bamboo  house and 500 baht for a litre of water

Where are you my nephew is 24 wants a job hes a good worker im not joking either

On 11/21/2020 at 7:32 PM, hotchilli said:

Sorry to hear that, a sign of the times.

Don't drive yourself into the ground, sell up if you must to keep your sanity, buy a nice place in a great location and thank yourself for being able to do so.

Watch the sunrise/sunset over a beach somewhere quiet... 

 

that's about right.   for any of us that have enough money to get by it just isn't worth the stress as one gets older.    I certainly will never live in a condo..... but i have downsized to where i have things to take care of but seldom need to hire someone.  

I have a few guys who i can count on ( electrician, concrete guy )  when needed (rarely).

Pay them well...... by the job .     Good day labor is a thing of the past

8 hours ago, 473geo said:

Just making a point, I recall building sites when Phuket first started to grow, workers lived in corrugated tin huts made with whatever was available, cooked on fires.

Working life for many Thai is about cash in hand, to spend as they wish, not 'benefits'

They know the salary before they start, if  its  not  enough for them they shouldnt  apply, we  also give increases when they start  at 3 and 6  months then yearly. I  know what they  can live in but i try not to treat them as pieces of <deleted> even though thats how  many treat us.

57 minutes ago, bodga said:

They know the salary before they start, if  its  not  enough for them they shouldnt  apply, we  also give increases when they start  at 3 and 6  months then yearly. I  know what they  can live in but i try not to treat them as pieces of <deleted> even though thats how  many treat us.

You miss the point you pay the wage, they decide how they live, and what they do with the salary.

I bought my daughter an expensive shirt, 'expensive' she said,  yep says I but a very good shirt last a long time. One shirt I cannot wear same every time she says, better buy 3 cheap shirt can wear different every day

 

That is how I learnt not to spend money for my family or workers, better they spend it their way

 

6 hours ago, 473geo said:

You miss the point you pay the wage, they decide how they live, and what they do with the salary.

I dont  miss  it  at  all, the house is  free, electric free, water free,  fish free,  motorbike free,the salary they can do what they want with, they never  manage to save any, if they want to  live offsite thats fine by me, they know the salary so up to them.

14 hours ago, sateuk said:

Where are you my nephew is 24 wants a job hes a good worker im not joking either

sent  you a  message, if  you cant read it  let me know

Having just read through this whole thread there are some interesting comments and opinions.

I don't have anything to do with anyone who does work for us I leave it for the wife to handle. If it was up to me I would be run out of town very quickly for being too bossy and demanding that they do some work for their pay.

 

My wife (Thai) often got really angry about her "lazy" workers so I suggested to her that instead of paying an hourly or daily rate she should just pay  a fixed amount for a set job, that way they could do it in one day or 7 days and it didn't matter.

In other words it was "up to them" how hard they worked.

 

She has quite  a bit of land and she has all her own equipment to farm it. She does so by working with a local guy here who is a very hard worker.  Together they share any profits they make from her and his land. He operates all our equipment and maintains it.

 

He has often complained to my wife about how lazy the people are that periodically come and work for her.  She told me the other day that he had said, "aren't they ashamed to be doing so little when they see me out there working hard and me being much older than them".

 

So the frustration with the efforts of some Thai labour is not only felt by "Farangs" it is also seen by Thai's themselves.

 

It is my opinion that rural Thai family culture is very socialist in almost every way. It is also my opinion that in a true Socialist culture everyone regresses to the lowest possible energy level.  Why would you do more work than anyone else just to receive the same share of the spoils as the laziest one?

For those who would like to know more on the financial side of rice farming, the link below was produced a few years ago and provides a guide. It is a complex picture which should be understood in context of this topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPoacysvVQI 

1 hour ago, IsaanAussie said:

For those who would like to know more on the financial side of rice farming, the link below was produced a few years ago and provides a guide. It is a complex picture which should be understood in context of this topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPoacysvVQI 

 

One really should not have anything to do with the other. What you have to pay your staff does not have any direct effect on what you are able to sell your product for.

5 hours ago, bodga said:

I dont  miss  it  at  all, the house is  free, electric free, water free,  fish free,  motorbike free,the salary they can do what they want with, they never  manage to save any, if they want to  live offsite thats fine by me, they know the salary so up to them.

My son gets paid 70 -100 baht an hour to help tend the cattle, negotiable with his mother ???? can go play football whenever he wants, even allowed a time off for school, receives all the benefits you mention above plus an annual 'bonus' on his birthday ????

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

One really should not have anything to do with the other. What you have to pay your staff does not have any direct effect on what you are able to sell your product for.

We are talking about farming labor in small villages, ain't we? What is paid as wages to other members of the village is effected by the going rate of rice. In the case of family members often there is little, even no cash involved. 

9 hours ago, OOTAI said:

Together they share any profits

already  told  workers here they can have a percentage of  profits, 40%

9 hours ago, OOTAI said:

So the frustration with the efforts of some Thai labour is not only felt by "Farangs" it is also seen by Thai's themselves.

several friends we know round here say the same, Thais are lazy  now, their words.

Just now, bodga said:

already  told  workers here they can have a percentage of  profits, 40%

Really? And you think they believed you? 5555555555555

When was the last time the "overdue" harvester or tractor turned when promised? 

Guys it doesn't work that way, never has.

The exception used to be rubber tappers. The plantation owner supplied all materials and the tappers cared for the trees and land, spread fertiliser and harvested the rubber. Sales income was split on a percentage basis. It worked when prices were high and a good income was to be had. Now, same as rice hard to find people prepared to work for nothing.

Edited November 24, 20205 yr by IsaanAussie
Added comment on rubber tappers

59 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

Really? And you think they believed you? 5555555555555

When was the last time the "overdue" harvester or tractor turned when promised? 

Guys it doesn't work that way, never has.

The exception used to be rubber tappers. The plantation owner supplied all materials and the tappers cared for the trees and land, spread fertiliser and harvested the rubber. Sales income was split on a percentage basis. It worked when prices were high and a good income was to be had. Now, same as rice hard to find people prepared to work for nothing.

 

So which is it? Here you claim it doesn't work that way and a couple post back you implied it did.

 

If the bottom falls out of the rice market (subsidies aside) the rice rots in the field as no one can afford to pay people to harvest it. If the market price double or triples, the worker is still paid only whatever the minimum is the get them to work. The market price directly impacts the farmers margin, but it only indirectly impacts the workers compensation.