Scotland's Sturgeon puts UK on independence warning: We want a referendum soon

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Why don't you listen to your leaders "Alex Salmond pledged there would be no second referendum for "a generation", even if he lost by one vote."

 

Now does that sound like an idiom to you?

 

Why dont you admit that what Salmond said is not legally binding and he is no longer the leader of the SNP.

Is Johnson bound by the comments of Cameron or May?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

So you have no leg to stand on so you cry faux tears of outrage for a political party. I admire your determination to get in a response, but that is pretty weak, don't you think? 

Why don't you give us the %ages of both the SNP and the Tories then we can make our own minds up as to your latest revelation.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

 

Me an' my pals....

 

You're funny. Ever thought about stand-up? On second thoughts, you're not THAT funny.

 

But enough about you.

 

 

Fact. She can request one until she's blue in the face (sic), but there's no hope of getting one any time soon.

 

 

But the Union isn't under threat, is it?

 

So your only hope of keeping the union together is to make sure there is never a referendum again

What about will of the people and democracy. 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Why dont you admit that what Salmond said is not legally binding and he is no longer the leader of the SNP.

Is Johnson bound by the comments of Cameron or May?

Mrs Sturgeon is the First lady of Scotland and she said it, you really are clutching at straws here you know. 

[Rookiescot]

59 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   The former was an agreement , the latter was a figure of speech and wasnt meant to be taken literally ( He also didnt say he would be "dead in a ditch" , the first bit of the sentance was "I'd rather be dead in a ditch than blah blah blah................"

In what way was the former an agreement? 

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   The former was an agreement , the latter was a figure of speech and wasnt meant to be taken literally ( He also didnt say he would be "dead in a ditch" , the first bit of the sentance was "I'd rather be dead in a ditch than blah blah blah................"

The dead in the ditch comment came from a promise B.Johnson made.

Johnson was asked if he would promise not to ask for extension.

Johnson reply , yes. I would rather be dead in a ditch.

[cleopatra2]

Just now, cleopatra2 said:

The dead in the ditch comment came from a promise B.Johnson made.

Johnson was asked if he would promise the British public not to ask for extension.

Johnson reply , yes. I would rather be dead in a ditch.

 

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

Mrs Sturgeon is the First lady of Scotland and she said it, you really are clutching at straws here you know. 

So she said a throw away line in a campain.

Are all politicians bound by such stringent rules or just the ones you dont agree with?

For the last time. Present evidence the "Once in a generation" statement is legally binding.

Put up or shut up.

[RuamRudy]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

Why don't you give us the %ages of both the SNP and the Tories then we can make our own minds up as to your latest revelation.

Because I think your point is a nonsense and I am merely highlighting the hypocrisy of the dual position of claiming a Tory mandate on 43% of the vote and denying the same to the SNP with 45%.

[RuamRudy]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

Mrs Sturgeon is the First lady of Scotland and she said it, you really are clutching at straws here you know. 

Says the man who's entire premise for refusing to allow the democratic process in another country is a throwaway remark! 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, kingdong said:

Perhaps your question should be directed at zimbabwe.....its a wonderfull thing freedom,pity you can,t eat it.

You should get your facts right, Zimbabwe never claimed independence from the UK, it was Rhodesia that declared a UDI in 1965. It was the first UDI against the UK and they claimed it was illegal, not something they would get away with now, they fully supported the Kosovo UDI.

Zimbabwe was granted independence in 1980 as a formality to close the door on the Rhodesian fiasco.

If the UK had agreed to Rhodesian independence, who knows how the country would have prospered, Westminster is responsible for how things turned out.

A UDI by Scotland would put Westminster in a very difficult position, and don't think for one minute it is not lurking in the background.

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Because I think your point is a nonsense and I am merely highlighting the hypocrisy of the dual position of claiming a Tory mandate on 43% of the vote and denying the same to the SNP with 45%.

Of course my point is nonsense, you are correct all the time RR, except when someone speaks the truth about the SNP and you become all defensive. 

Nearly 14 million voters voted Tory and just under a million and a quarter voted SNP, how do you start to compare the two results with such a vast difference of a margin.

But this is not about that is it, this is about the SNP not having a mandate to even ask for another referendum, you tried, you failed to get the result you wanted, now let us get on and live our peaceful lives and don't ignore the majority in Scotland, think what they want too.

[vogie]

58 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So she said a throw away line in a campain.

Are all politicians bound by such stringent rules or just the ones you dont agree with?

For the last time. Present evidence the "Once in a generation" statement is legally binding.

Put up or shut up.

Very impolite to tell another poster to shut up rookie, I sure you know this.

It is obviously not very straight forward, but what we can say is that Salmonds/Sturgeons remark would be open to parties seeking legal advice and by reneging on such a statement the political fallout would be colossal.

But more important is the Edinburgh Agreement where both sides agreed to respect the outcome of the result. 

But I suspect that will mean nothing to a Scottish Nationalist who doesn't care about the rest of the citizens of his country.

[DaveCW]

On 11/27/2020 at 8:43 AM, robblok said:

Strange Brexiteers wanting freedom but not respecting the Scots to want the same. Double standards anyone ?

Strange - I thought there was a vote to remain and that has been honoured? Oh, I see, you want more and more referendums, until you get the result you want - priceless.

 

And will the Shetlands be given a referendum as they want - and taking the oil with them? If not, double standards indeed.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, DaveCW said:

Strange - I thought there was a vote to remain and that has been honoured? Oh, I see, you want more and more referendums, until you get the result you want - priceless.

 

And will the Shetlands be given a referendum as they want - and taking the oil with them? If not, double standards indeed.

 

If the party in which is fairly elected accomplished their win under the promise of seeking another referendum, that is a mandate. I appreciate that the democratic result of repeated elections in Scotland might go against your own wishes, but that's democracy for you.

 

As for Shetland, keep spouting this nonsense and ensuring we all realise just how little you know about Scotland or the Shetlands, or about international law for that matter.

[Rookiescot]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

Very impolite to tell another poster to shut up rookie, I sure you know this.

It is obviously not very straight forward, but what we can say is that Salmonds/Sturgeons remark would be open to parties seeking legal advice and by reneging on such a statement the political fallout would be colossal.

But more important is the Edinburgh Agreement where both sides agreed to respect the outcome of the result. 

But I suspect that will mean nothing to a Scottish Nationalist who doesn't care about the rest of the citizens of his country.

Having read my comment you are right Vogie. I did not mean for you to actually shut up.

Its a figure of speech. A throw away line. Not legally binding in any sense. 

Along the lines of "Once in a generation". Now you can challenge that in court if you want to get laughed at.

Both sides did respect the outcome of the referendum. We are still in the UK. Sadly the unionists failed to deliver the promises they made. Devo max. An equal partner. Remaining in the EU. 

Its ironic but if they had delivered even on the devo max it would have killed calls for independence dead. Even with Brexit.

And as a Brexiteer, do you care about the 48% who didnt vote for Brexit? Your comments about "We won get used to it" and many others would seem to indicate otherwise. 

 

[Rookiescot]

16 minutes ago, DaveCW said:

Strange - I thought there was a vote to remain and that has been honoured? Oh, I see, you want more and more referendums, until you get the result you want - priceless.

 

And will the Shetlands be given a referendum as they want - and taking the oil with them? If not, double standards indeed.

 

Are the Shetland Isles a country? And what oil would that be? The stuff within their 12 limit? There is none.

I love reading stuff like this. It shows how utterly uninformed Brexiteers are on the subject of Scottish independence. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Rookiescot
typo

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, cleopatra2 said:

The dead in the ditch comment came from a promise B.Johnson made.

Johnson was asked if he would promise not to ask for extension.

Johnson reply , yes. I would rather be dead in a ditch.

 

   That isnt a promise to be dead in a ditch

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Are the Shetland Isles a country? And what oil would that be? The stuff within their 12 limit? There is none.

I love reading stuff like this. It shows how utterly uninformed Brexiteers are on the subject of Scottish independence. 

 

Never mind the fact the chief proponent of independence for the Shetlands is an Englishman who only moved there about 10 years ago and is seen as a crank by virtually everyone who has ever come across him.

 

Isles’ independence campaigner on ‘hunger strike’ in prison

'Captain Calamity' returns to sea

Stuart "Captain Calamity" Hill

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by RuamRudy

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Having read my comment you are right Vogie. I did not mean for you to actually shut up.

Its a figure of speech. A throw away line. Not legally binding in any sense. 

Along the lines of "Once in a generation". Now you can challenge that in court if you want to get laughed at.

Both sides did respect the outcome of the referendum. We are still in the UK. Sadly the unionists failed to deliver the promises they made. Devo max. An equal partner. Remaining in the EU. 

Its ironic but if they had delivered even on the devo max it would have killed calls for independence dead. Even with Brexit.

And as a Brexiteer, do you care about the 48% who didnt vote for Brexit? Your comments about "We won get used to it" and many others would seem to indicate otherwise. 

 

Both sides did respect the outcome of the referendum. We are still in the UK. Sadly the unionists failed to deliver the promises they made. Devo max. An equal partner. Remaining in the EU. 

You may be still in the UK but it has very little to do with respecting the referendum, can we put it down to you have very little choice, given half a chance you would be away faster than you could say Invercockaleakie.

 

And as a Brexiteer, do you care about the 48% who didnt vote for Brexit? Your comments about "We won get used to it" and many others would seem to indicate otherwise. 

If I can turn that around, do you think the 48% care about the 52% that chose to leave the EU, if so they have a very strange way of showing it, the name calling we have had to endure for the last 5 years is beyond the pale, but ironically the remainers were in the driving seat for 3 or 4 years of the runt parliament and instead of turning left into Remain Road they took a wrong turning and went down Leave Lane, but it all worked out fine for democracy in the end.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

Never mind the fact the chief proponent of independence for the Shetlands is an Englishman who only moved there about 10 years ago and is seen by a crank by virtually everyone who has ever come across him.

 

Isles’ independence campaigner on ‘hunger strike’ in prison

'Captain Calamity' returns to sea

Stuart "Captain Calamity" Hill

 

 

 

Independence or indeed remaining in the UK after Scotland gets independence is a complete red herring. The ONLY people who claim its a thing are unionists who dont live anywhere near the Shetland Isles. 

[2530Ubon]

31 minutes ago, DaveCW said:

And will the Shetlands be given a referendum as they want - and taking the oil with them? If not, double standards indeed.

You are aware that the Shetland Islands are a part of Scotland? Around 130 miles off the northern coast of Scotland. They of course would be part of a referendum, but they will be a part of the whole; Scotland. They wouldn't get their own referendum and be split from Scotland!

Edited November 30, 2020 by 2530Ubon

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Both sides did respect the outcome of the referendum. We are still in the UK. Sadly the unionists failed to deliver the promises they made. Devo max. An equal partner. Remaining in the EU. 

You may be still in the UK but it has very little to do with respecting the referendum, can we put it down to you have very little choice, given half a chance you would be away faster than you could say Invercockaleakie.

 

And as a Brexiteer, do you care about the 48% who didnt vote for Brexit? Your comments about "We won get used to it" and many others would seem to indicate otherwise. 

If I can turn that around, do you think the 48% care about the 52% that chose to leave the EU, if so they have a very strange way of showing it, the name calling we have had to endure for the last 5 years is beyond the pale, but ironically the remainers were in the driving seat for 3 or 4 years of the runt parliament and instead of turning left into Remain Road they took a wrong turning and went down Leave Lane, but it all worked out fine for democracy in the end.

 

Are we still in the UK? Then yes the referendum result was respected.

I notice you avoided the tricky issue of what was promised about devo max there. You cunning little fox that you are Vogie.

 

Why turn it around? You are a Brexiteer who cares not a jot for the 48% who didnt vote as you did.

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

You are aware that the Shetland Islands are a part of Scotland? Around 130 miles off the northern coast of Scotland. They of course would be part of a referendum, but they will be a part of the whole; Scotland. They wouldn't get their own referendum and be split from Scotland!

The Scottish government has already said they could have a referendum on leaving.

But thats not what the Shetland Isles want. They want more autonomy. Which was backed by the, wait for it, SNP councilors in the Shetland Isles. 

I have to say I actually agree with them. They are better placed to decide what is good for their islands than anyone else.

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Is Johnson bound by the comments of Cameron or May?

 

Judging on his determination to "get Brexit done", I think that he's fulfilling Cameron's Brexit capitulation statement, "The British people have voted to leave the European Union, and their will must be respected. ...The British people have made a choice. That not only needs to be respected — but those on the losing side of the argument, myself included, should help to make it work."

 

As for his successor's tortured stewardship that didn't quite match his, "...captain that steers our country to its next destination" bit of grandiloquence, he can hardly be blamed for that.

[CorpusChristie]

11 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The Scottish government has already said they could have a referendum on leaving.

But thats not what the Shetland Isles want. They want more autonomy. Which was backed by the, wait for it, SNP councilors in the Shetland Isles. 

I have to say I actually agree with them. They are better placed to decide what is good for their islands than anyone else.

 

    They should be given a referendum every few years , to see whether they want be be with Scotland or the UK , well , regular referendums until they finally vote to stay with the UK

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

Judging on his determination to "get Brexit done", I think that he's fulfilling Cameron's Brexit capitulation statement, "The British people have voted to leave the European Union, and their will must be respected. ...The British people have made a choice. That not only needs to be respected — but those on the losing side of the argument, myself included, should help to make it work."

 

As for his successor's tortured stewardship that didn't quite match his, "...captain that steers our country to its next destination" bit of grandiloquence, he can hardly be blamed for that.

 

So everyone who voted Labour, Lib Dem, SNP, Green or independent at the last election suddenly needs to back a Conservative government?

Cameron also said he would not resign if Brexit won. Where is he now?

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

    They should be given a referendum every few years , to see whether they want be be with Scotland or the UK , well , regular referendums until they finally vote to stay with the UK

 

But first they would need to ask for one - and that is what is not happening. Why thrust a referendum upon them when they don't want one? Simply to satisfy some English sailor who creates trouble wherever he goes?

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

    They should be given a referendum every few years , to see whether they want be be with Scotland or the UK , well , regular referendums until they finally vote to stay with the UK

 

They can do that if they want but I hate to disappoint you. There really is no appetite for independence of the Shetland Isles or indeed joining Brexitland. 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So everyone who voted Labour, Lib Dem, SNP, Green or independent at the last election suddenly needs to back a Conservative government?

Cameron also said he would not resign if Brexit won. Where is he now?

 

This is the attitude I cannot understand. Brexit won so we should all get behind it? How utterly ridiculous a suggestion that is.