Thieving.

[Luckydog]

What a load of RUBBISH

There is very little theft in Thailand. Far less than in most European countries.

It is totally unfair to assume all Thais are thieves and it is their national pass time.

While it may be true to say that Thais have a tendency to lie - often to save face or for no apparent reason - in terms of theft, robbery etc - Thais are very very honest.

I dont like the tone of your post.

By the way it is not fair to assume Pattaya is like the rest of Thailand. Pattaya has the worst of Thais and the worst of foreigners in the country.

I live in a very very poor area in the country side, I dont feel in any danger here. I can go to the roughest parts of Bangkok and feel safe walking the streets at night.

Try going to Manila - there you will find thieves at any street corner - where there is a criminal culture.

I dont like foreigners like you who make sweeping negative statements about Thailand

Why did you come here? Did someone invite you? Did someone invite you to come to Thailand? Why did you choose Pattaya? Didnt someone tell you there is more crime in Pattaya? Did you come here to take advantage of local ladies'? Did a local lady take advantage of you?

When I first came to Pattaya I thought the Thais must love Dogs as they almost all seemed to have one snarling through the Railings of their house.

But, of course, the reason for the Dogs is that Stealing is indemic.

If their was a 'Stealing Olympics' this Country would get a lot of Gold Medals. That's for sure.

What, if anything, have you had nicked ?

And if the answer is "Nothing" don't be complacent. It could happen anytime.

So beware my friends........

Don't be complacent! Just because you have not been robbed yet......

I say again BEWARE MY FRIENDS!!!

[Maigo6]

don't expect any different behaviour from taxi drivers the world over !

Except maybe Japan.

[Furbie]

I suggest you have someone pick up a copy of a Thai paper and read it to you – your eyes may open a bit. As I was told when I first moved to BKK, it is not a very safe city (though some areas are good). My first GF was always telling me, tuck in your gold, put your wallet in your front pocket, watch out on the block accross the road (a lot of workers) - turns out she was right, it just took me a while to realize it.

Hi Furbie. I don't need to have someone read a Thai paper for me as I can do that by myself. I can tell you from my reading Thai papers that the vast majority of the violent crime is Thai on Thai, and of that violent crime the vast majority is due to business disputes or grudges, jealousy, vocational school fighting, and similar. Comparatively little of it is random or directed at total strangers (esp. farangs), which is what really frightens people. Here is a list of crimes that are quite rare here or unheard of, whereas they are not uncommon back in my home country (USA):

Spree or mass killings

Workplace killings by people going postal

Muggings

Drive-by shootings

Carjacking

Serial killings

To each his own. Say, where is Colpyat, or did I miss his post?

Very, very true - but don't you think that has more to do with the fact that 1 - there are more Thais than Westerns (so most crime will be Thai on Thai - I bet in Egypt there is more Egyptian on Egyptian crime) and 2) most Westerners (in BKK) are located in better areas?

My point was that there is a lot of crime in Thailand that most Westerners are unaware of - stating that it is Thai on Thai does not change that. Furthermore, there are a great deal of muggings, extortion by the police, pick pockets, rapes, fights, gang shootings, drug related violence and, as you mentioned, vocational kids killing each other because they are from rival schools (though I don't see how that makes BKK safer than the West, especially when they open fire on a public bus), - these crimes happen every day in BKK - most of which will never be reported, and if it is, it will almost always not be in the English language press.

I am in no way saying that the West is some crime free paradise - my point is that BKK is not as safe as generally viewed, and that thievery is a problem in Thailand as mentioned by the OP - I never said it is a Westerner's problem alone - though I think we tend to be surprised when it happens to us because to many of us wear those rose colored glasses.

As for your list of crimes (although I completely disagree about muggings – though they are more likely to be snatch and grabs here, happens all the time – someone rides by on a bike, grabs a bag or a gold necklace) what difference does it make why a crime was committed? Dead is dead, robbed is robbed, raped is raped – be it because of someone losing it at work and killing co-workers, or the guy who kills his Thai neighbor for a lottery ticket.

[Jimjim]

I've left three cell phones in taxis in Thailand, and never got them back. They always turned them off quick, realizing what they had.

Are you saying that you being careless by leaving your mobile in a taxi means a Thai person has thieved it ?

Totster

I hope you're joking. Do you understand what it means to take something that's not yours willfullly? Stealing? Thieving, whatever you want to call it. Yes, it is theft by the taxi drivers that did it. Two of them I called and they turned off the phone they had just found so they could keep it. They knew what they were doing.

Is it mostly my fault for leaving them in the taxi? Yes, of course, because it's just human nature, especially when you're a poor taxi driver.

But don't try to call it not stealing, that's just silly.

I wasn't joking... you assume that the taxi driver switched off the phone, you also assume that the taxi driver did not try to find the owner, or hand it to the Police.

Finding something in the back of a taxi at the end of the day, that someone has left there, is not the same as stealing/thieving in my book, it's a moral decision whether or not to try and find the owner.....now if the taxi driver took the mobile out of your bag or jacket when you weren't looking, well that's another matter.

I'm not alone in my view... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=94252

The moral of the story... don't be so careless with your belongings... and while I'm at it, don't expect any different behaviour from taxi drivers the world over !

totster

I didn't assume he turned it off. I deduced from clear evidence. Why would the phone be turned off about 2 mintues after it was gone? He saw it in the front seat, knew what he had, and turned it off. It's pure theft. It surely wasn't at the end of the day that he saw it. You can't make any excuses for that or try to use semantics and say it's not theft or stealing. He could have come right back and given it to me. I was on a school campus. Not too hard to come back and leave it in the office or go right back to the person who just lost it. This happened the same way with one of the other phones I lost; it was turned off immediately when I called it and tried to talk to the driver. The other one, I don't know what happened. He may have forgotten. A passenger could have taken it. I don't know because I didn't remember until I woke up the next morning. The taxi company tried to find it for me, or at least said they did.

One of my students was dropped off in my old campus. She left her phone in the taxi. The driver saw it and took off while the door was still open. They were chasing the car telling him to stop. He didn't. The guard got his license plate number and the police caught him, however. He STOLE the phone. My first stolen phone was stolen just the same, just not in as dramatic a manner.

There wasn't meant to be a real moral to the story. I was just adding my two cents. You don't need to remind me that I was careless with those phones. So what? I was and it was my fault to leave a mobile in the taxi. First step was I left the phone. Not stolen yet. Second step is the phone was stolen. Fact is, at least two of them were stolen. Trying to call it another name is unnecessary didactics.

You know what's extremely funny about your last comment? I'm actually a taxi driver, and I would never steal someone's phone if they left it in my taxi. All I would have to do is look up a number in the phone that looks like it's been called a lot, call that person up, and the rest would be pretty simple.

You could expect different behaviour from this taxi driver thank you very much. Give it a try. Fact is, I'm not really judging them for what they did, they could have really used the money and it wasn't like they're going to get a lot for a 1000 baht phone. I could really care less. Just bought a new one. But knowing the facts, in two cases, I couldn't really call it anything else than stealing. Partly my fault but stealing just the same.

I feel like our time has been stolen with this conversation, so that's it.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Jimjim

[Totster]

I feel like our time has been stolen with this conversation, so that's it.

Apologies if you feel your time has been stolen, I'll keep my reply brief..

When does finding become stealing, and when does stealing become finding...?

In your example where the student saw the taxi driver pick up her phone and knowingly drove away.. I agree, thievery for sure.. finding the phone at a later time and choosing not to try very hard to find the owner.. dishonest yes.. criminal no..

The thread is about thieving being Thailands national pastime, and if this wasn't offensive enough, you decide to recount a situation that happens all over the world, not just local to Thailand neither does it happen in any greater frequency in Thailand, and which is mostly down to your carelessness

Oops.. I think I've stolen too much of your time again...

totster

[Neeranam]

You know what's extremely funny about your last comment? I'm actually a taxi driver, and I would never steal someone's phone if they left it in my taxi.

You were on a school campus? What's a taxi driver getting another taxi driver for?

BTW I agree with you - it is theft, it happened to me too.

[moonoi]

actually , its burglarizing !

I think its actually "burgling" - at least in the UK.

There is certainly a lot of it too. My sister's house in Stockport has been burgled five times, despite burglar alarms and internal door locks being fitted.

G

My parents live in Stockport and in over 30 years the house has never been broken into. So it goes to show that you just can't generalise about any place in any country.....someone will always have had the opposite experience.

On the other hand I did have my motocycle stolen on the one occasion I left it out front of the house without locking it for more than an hour. Knew the kids that nicked it though and delivered them my own justice (knowing the cops wouldn't do a thing )

In Thailand the houses in my GFs' village in Bangkok (nr Ramintra km5) are constantly being burgled if left unattended for several nights at a time....they even come and steal the manhole covers from the roads leaving huge holes for you to drive your car into...mad.

[dumspero]

When the Spanish came to the West Pacific in the 1500's they named a number of islands the "Islands of Thieves" (Isla Padrones- sp?).

When Lucky Dog and his friends came to Pattaya about 500 years later they decide that thieving is Thailand's 'national pastime.'

Wonderful. 500 years. Zero progress in learning not to make stupid and offensive generalizations.

[cdnvic]

What's a taxi driver getting another taxi driver for?

Because he isn't at work and he needs to get somewhere?

[Jimjim]

Totser,

Actually I probably stole the most time with my last post. I'll steal more of your time.

You've looked at my first post from the beginning in completely the wrong way. My post was not offensive in the last bit. You're just being overly sensitive in your defense of Thailand.

When I saw the title of this topic I thought it was silly and offensive just like you. I think it's ridiculous to say thieving is the national pastime of Thailand. Utterly ridiculous. It's unneccasary stereotyping based on anecdotal evidence.

I merely added my own experience of theft in Thailand. I didn't say I thought it was the Thai pastime, or that I thought it happened here more than anywhere. It merely happened. Just because I like Thailand, it doesn't mean I will lie and say it's never happened to me. The fact that all I could add was a few instances of lost phones in taxis should have the opposite effect on you. It should show that if that's all I can add, then I haven't experienced any horrible thievery in Thailand. I even said I could care less. I would have hoped readers could see that and not try to assume ill intent because of the original post.

However, finding becomes stealing when you just had a fare, saw he lost his phone, and immediately turned it off so you wouldn't be bothered with the annoying ringing of the owner's friends trying to call the phone while he frantically tried to chase down your taxi in order that you could keep the phone. I really don't see how you can argue that one to death anymore. It's purely different than finding it the end of the shift, yes, I admit that. Or even finding a phone in the street and having no idea whose it is. But it can certainly be solved by calling someone on the phones contacts' list I betcha.

As for Thailand being a hotbed for theft, I have no idea. It certainly happens. I used to live on a soi where latenight theft happened often. One lady had a gun pulled on her. One lady was put in a coma due to the violent nature of her robbery. Are there statistics to say it happens more than other countries or is high on the list? Impossible to find. All anybody can submit is anecdotal evidence. In my own experience, I've never had anyone try to pick my pocket in Smalltown, U.S.A. In 10 total days spent in London, I had someone try to pick my pocket once. In over 500 days spent in Bangkok, a ladyboy, part of the infamous Asok gang, tried ot pick my pocket. This happened once. So, my anecdotal evidence points to theft being the national pastime in London, not Bangkok. And Smalltown, U.S.A. is free of this problem, at least for me.

Edited May 8, 2007 by Jimjim

[PhilHarries]

Sorry but I don't get the concept of "losing" a mobile phone by leaving it in a taxi, on a bar or in a restaurant. My mobile lives in my pocket, the only times it's not in there is at night when it's on the bedside locker generally on charge or I'm using it. It is constantly in my pocket, I take it out, make or receive the call/sms and put it back. It's not like 20 or so years back when they were the size of housebricks. But then some folk like to display all their gadgetry as fashion accessories "look everybody I have the latest Nokia 3GIX49Bpi.asteal@$1000".

[Jimjim]

What's a taxi driver getting another taxi driver for?

Because he isn't at work and he needs to get somewhere?

Exactly.

And the fact that I'm not Thai so I can't drive cab in Thailand as it's illegal. I drive cab in my own country.

[Luckydog]

Recently my Pal had to close The Munch Shack here in Pattaya. He sold the contents to a fellow Farang, but before the guy could remove everything it was stolen.....and I mean EVERYTHING!

Only the Walls and Floors were left behind!

Another friend got into a Baht Bus with 80000bht in his wallet. When he got out it was gone!

The people next door were moving. They put a large fan into the Pickup truck and went in to get more things. When they came out the Fan was gone!.

My GF had her gold necklace grabbed a few months ago. Thats why hardly anyone wears Gold in this town now.

Dozens of Motorbikes are stolen every week.

As I posted recently the complete lighting system was trashed on Pattya Hill for the heavy Copper cable and Lampshades. Now they are smashing the concrete bases in order to get at the Stainless Steel rods that held up the Posts that the Council removed. NEED I GO ON?

Someone said they did not have to lock their houses in Isaan. The Missus says "That's because all the thieves have migrated to Pattaya!

[Jimjim]

Sorry but I don't get the concept of "losing" a mobile phone by leaving it in a taxi,

You would if it accidentally slipped out of your pocket and you were deep in conversation or drunk.

[Luckydog]

When the Spanish came to the West Pacific in the 1500's they named a number of islands the "Islands of Thieves" (Isla Padrones- sp?).

When Lucky Dog and his friends came to Pattaya about 500 years later they decide that thieving is Thailand's 'national pastime.'

Wonderful. 500 years. Zero progress in learning not to make stupid and offensive generalizations.

OK Clever Clogs. When someone nicks something from you, I bet you will sing another song........

[PhilHarries]

Sorry but I don't get the concept of "losing" a mobile phone by leaving it in a taxi,

You would if it accidentally slipped out of your pocket and you were deep in conversation or drunk.

You must use taxis with extremely low seats or have very full pockets.

The only thing that has "fallen" out of my pocket was my wallet and that was defying gravity aided and abetted by the hand of the tea leaf.

[KhunMarco]

Oh gee someone stolen my mobile! I knew it, this place is full of thieves!

Roflmao, you guys are funny!

The biggest thing they stolen from me was a mountain bike...it happened in Vanocouver B.C. Those Canadians are nasty, I'm going to post it on WWW.CanadaVisa.com

Ridiculous

[dumspero]

Luckydog- Yes, as soon as I'm the victim, real or imagined, of any theft, however petty, I will immediately stand with you in condemning the entire Asian continent as a theft ridden menace!

[Jimjim]

Sorry but I don't get the concept of "losing" a mobile phone by leaving it in a taxi,

You would if it accidentally slipped out of your pocket and you were deep in conversation or drunk.

You must use taxis with extremely low seats or have very full pockets.

The only thing that has "fallen" out of my pocket was my wallet and that was defying gravity aided and abetted by the hand of the tea leaf.

Didn't happen to you so you can't understand how it happened to to someone else.

Ya, I always look for taxis with low seats, as I'm a dwarf.

[Totster]

Luckydog- Yes, as soon as I'm the victim, real or imagined, of any theft, however petty, I will immediately stand with you in condemning the entire Asian continent as a theft ridden menace!

[Luckydog]

"I've never had anything stolen"..........No Pal NOT yet!

I could post a loooooong list of thefts from friends and others, but I can't be bothered.

Well, ok I will bother to tell you about one that happened a few days ago. Just for luck.

My mate had to close his Restaurant/Guest House called The Munch Shack on Second rd. The landlord hiked the Rent too far at the end of the Lease.

A Farang bought the contents for about 50000bht. But before he could collect the stuff, it was all nicked!

They took EVERYTHING.......only the Walls and Floors were left, and the blighters would no doubt have had those away too, if they could!

Then there wa.......OH forget it!

Ignore my words of caution at your peril......

[jumnien]

Judging Thailand by what happens on Second Rd. is like judging California by what happens in the Tenderloin in San Francisco or South-Central in Los Angeles. Be realistic, please!

[Maigo6]

Ignore my words of caution at your peril......

I think Pattaya is a special case, I also know of many people who have had their houses broken into and just a look at the local news will cement Luckydogs claims.

I don't know why it isn't so in the villages of Isaan, maybe cos everybody knows everybody and the loss of face within the community for the whole family of a thief would be bad. In Pattaya they don't have that problem as the families are many miles away.

And of course some desperate Farangs on the bones of their azz are not averse to a bit of thievery to extend their stay in Thailand.

[cdnvic]

I think its more a case of the money that tourist areas attract all the opportunists and thieves, not that any one area is inherently more honest than another.

Edited May 9, 2007 by cdnvic

[Maigo6]

I think its more a case of the money that tourist areas attract attracting all the opportunists and thieves, not that any one area is inherently more honest than another.

Yep, I'll go along with that.

[kmart]

To put this in a bit of perspective, my Thai manager had his wallet "dipped" on a recent business trip in London. He was quite miffed and couldn't understand why anyone in a rich Western country would stoop to this...

I should have bought him the complete works of Charles Dickens beforehand maybe?

[Ulysses G.]

I think its more a case of the money that tourist areas attract all the opportunists and thieves, not that any one area is inherently more honest than another.

Of course.

[Luckydog]

Maigo6 says -

I don't know why it isn't so in the villages of Isaan, maybe cos everybody knows everybody and the loss of face within the community for the whole family of a thief would be bad. In Pattaya they don't have that problem as the families are many miles away.

My GF says it's not that at all. The reason there are so few thefts in Issan is because all the thieves have left for the easy pickings of Towns like Pattaya!

And if I may say so gents. Comparing Pattaya with other parts of the World is tripe!

Get real!!!!

[Maigo6]

And if I may say so gents. Comparing Pattaya with other parts of the World is tripe!

Get real!!!!

Yep , nowhere compares to Pattaya, that's for sure!

Edited May 9, 2007 by Maigo6

[dttk0009]

Thailand, like any country, will have thieves and good honest people. You're probably not going to get mugged wakling down Sukhumvit at any time of night, but that can't be said about all parts of Bangkok. I've never had anything extremely valuable stolen from me (except my cheap mp3 player I carelessly left at the gym), however, a friend of mine had his motorcycle stolen, straight out of his garage. He lives in a mooban in Nonthaburi, and used to bring his bike to a small local garage to get it fixed. The owner of this garage had a teenage son, and he is the one that stole the bike. How do we know that? Because when he stole the bike he was seen by various members of the community. The thing is, no one was willing to testify in court, so there was no official evidence, and nothing my friend could do about it. Most likely that motorcycle is being used for the street races there now.

Edited May 9, 2007 by dttk0009