UK tells EU: back down by Sunday night or we'll walk

[CorpusChristie]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

I never said they were giving food or money to German children.

 

  I also said that . 

The fact that they arent, is a reason why the German government hasnt called their actions a publicity stunt, like the UK Government did 

[CorpusChristie]

 

  Simple logic. 

The worlds media arent publishing the headline "UNICEF sends aid to feed German kids" , and thus they have no need to respond 

Edited December 20, 2020 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Simple logic. 

The worlds media arent publishing the headline "UNICEF sends aid to feed UK kids" , and thus they have no need to respond 

 

[CorpusChristie]

14 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

 

 

  Edited my post .

[Tofer]

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Belgium is among the 191 countries,

 Ah, but they're not "independent"...., still shackled to the EU!

[luckyluke]

5 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 Ah, but they're not "independent"...., still shackled to the EU!

 

The independence of Belgium was declared the 4th. October 1830.

We are not shackled at all.

We are for the moment member of an union, union we can leave in our own good time.

[Tofer]

5 hours ago, bannork said:

Blind Faith, that's what you're flying on Tofer and it's going to lead you smack into a mountain side in two weeks. 

 

Just look back over the history of GB, and tell me when did they ever fall flat on their face, including the great plague, the relinquishing of the British Empire, WWI & WWII? I'm confident we'll get along just fine without being under the big stick of the EU....

 

But don't let my optimism spoil your pessimistic sulking and pity party...., everyone's entitled to their opinion.

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by onthedarkside
disallowed social media video removed

[bannork]

9 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Just look back over the history of GB, and tell me when did they ever fall flat on their face, including the great plague, the relinquishing of the British Empire, WWI & WWII? I'm confident we'll get along just fine without being under the big stick of the EU....

 

But don't let my optimism spoil your pessimistic sulking and pity party...., everyone's entitled to their opinion.

 

 

I wouldn't use WW1 as an example of British spirit if I was you. It was an utter senseless slaughter of a whole generation.

Brexit is economically insane and the farce is doubled by it being self imposed.

 

 

[Tofer]

17 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

The independence of Belgium was declared the 4th. October 1830.

 

And then you gave it away, along with your sovereignty, to be a member of the EU.

 

18 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

We are not shackled at all.

 

You are as long as you are a member.

 

 

[Tofer]

3 minutes ago, bannork said:

I wouldn't use WW1 as an example of British spirit if I was you.

 Did the UK fall flat on it's face thereafter??

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, Tofer said:

 

And then you gave it away, along with your sovereignty, to be a member of the EU.

 

 

You are as long as you are a member.

 

 

Not what we Belgian feel, and that's what count.

 

What a non-Belgian think, is of course his right,

but irrelevant for us.

[bannork]

33 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 Did the UK fall flat on it's face thereafter??

Please elaborate, how does a country fall flat on its face?

[transam]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

I wouldn't use WW1 as an example of British spirit if I was you. It was an utter senseless slaughter of a whole generation.

Brexit is economically insane and the farce is doubled by it being self imposed.

 

Started twice by your EU chums...

[GrandPapillon]

technically, what stops the EU and Boris in continuing their negotiations after Dec 31st? nothing, and maybe the best way to do it ????

[Sujo]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Started twice by your EU chums...

They werent chums at the time. But the UK thought hitler was a chum for quite some time.

 

Not to forget what the british started around the world pillaging places etc. 

[GrandPapillon]

technically, what stops the EU and Boris in continuing their negotiations after Dec 31st? nothing, and maybe the best way to do it ????

[Sujo]

Just now, GrandPapillon said:

technically, what stops the EU and Boris in continuing their negotiations after Dec 31st? nothing, and maybe the best way to do it ????

Why is it best to leave before agreements are made? 

[GrandPapillon]

Just now, Sujo said:

Why is it best to leave before agreements are made? 

well, it will give both parties a sense of emergency amid the chaos of "No deal"

 

and will force them to address "priorities" when the UK is running out of food and toilet paper ????

[vogie]

1 minute ago, GrandPapillon said:

well, it will give both parties a sense of emergency amid the chaos of "No deal"

 

and will force them to address "priorities" when the UK is running out of food and toilet paper ????

Boris has just ordered 20 million bum guns.

[Pattaya Spotter]

Should have walked 4 years ago when the referendum passed...what about "leave the EU" do May and Johnson not understand?

[Hi from France]

27 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

technically, what stops the EU and Boris in continuing their negotiations after Dec 31st? nothing, and maybe the best way to do it ????

Repeat,

• the EU being what it is, always designing compromises, will never break negotiations. On this side, negotiations (and will) can drag on for years
• The UK is in a tie : public discourse is controlled by narrow-minded nationalists need to look tough "we were in shackles, now we will be free and, anyway, sunlit uplands await us", but reality (our economies are still deeply integrated, our geopolitical interests are still the same and we are still in close geographical proximity) dictates that there is close cooperation.

 

As a result you have successive moves by the UK to slam the door and then realize... it just cannot slam the door

 

 

 

Another thing which is progressively sinking in is that membership was a meager price compared to the benefits of being in the EU (basically vetoing all our decisions when the UK didn't like them).

 

.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Hi from France

[Hi from France]

Recently discovered the European Fisheries Alliance (EUFA) https://fisheriesalliance.eu/ interesting read

 

 

.. as we are stuck again, this time only on fishing

 

 

and it's the EUFA behind the red lines, 

https://www.ft.com/content/3df92ad6-9fd4-49aa-875e-640c1e2366d8

 

three quotes (maybe you cannot access, but we are limited at 3 quotes on this forum)

Quote

the EU indicated at the end of last month that it could accept losing 15 to 18 per cent of its quota rights, that offer has now risen to 25 per cent, according to people briefed on the talks.

 

 

EUFA's president

Quote

“We are looking at vicious and unprecedented cuts on a wide range of stocks including our pelagic, shellfish and whitefish sectors,” Mr van Balsfoort said. He added that the situation was worsened by the fact that “fisheries negotiations with the UK are intended to start all over again after only six or seven years,” when the transitional period would end.

 

 

and 

Quote

People involved in the talks cautioned that other parts of the fisheries negotiation remained unresolved: notably the rights of EU boats to fish close to the British coast.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

33 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

technically, what stops the EU and Boris in continuing their negotiations after Dec 31st? nothing, and maybe the best way to do it ????

 

Nothing technically stops them from continuing, but politically Boris has previously locked himself into not allowing any extension to the transition (including putting it into law - which means they would have to vote to revoke the law and to vote on an extension - something that is difficult politically).  As such to have any extension they have to have some sort of trade agreement of sorts to have an extension by another name (maybe 'implementation period').  If there is no agreement, then the current standstill comes to an end and as per both EU/UK and WTO the UK cannot get any special treatment and must be on WTO rules.  Any industries that have held out hope for an agreement -- will be impacted, and some companies won't be able to adjust and go under.  Basically, it will lead to having to adjust to new rules on the outside, then if there is a later agreement have to adjust again... all that adjusting only leads to a greater impact on the economy. 

[Hi from France]

51 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Any industries that have held out hope for an agreement -- will be impacted, and some companies won't be able to adjust and go under.  Basically, it will lead to having to adjust to new rules on the outside, then if there is a later agreement have to adjust again... all that adjusting only leads to a greater impact on the economy. 

 

by way, it you have curiosity, time and can go beyond inflamating tabloids with CAPITALS fueling hatred and xenophobia..

 

...You can read and watch the meeting of the House of Commons with 3 main industrial sectors about Brexit

 

 

 

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/1367/html/

 

 

I really like Ian Wright the guy is nothing short of spectacular

Edited December 20, 2020 by Hi from France

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Should have walked 4 years ago when the referendum passed...what about "leave the EU" do May and Johnson not understand?

I dont understand. They are leaving. Why should they not try to leave on good terms. Or should they just say <deleted> and leave and be in a bad state?

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

I dont understand. They are leaving. Why should they not try to leave on good terms. Or should they just say <deleted> and leave and be in a bad state?

the problem with this nationalist scenarios is they simply cannot happen. The tabloid of @Pattaya Spotter might say "let's just leave" sorry LETS JUST LEAVE but, capitals or not, that's cannot happen even with UKIP.

 

apparently Barnier has been too generous with 25%, even the Irish would veto

 

 

 

Anyway given the "rapport de force", the EU just has to wait and to let the current government deal with recession, covid, traffic jams, layoffs for a while.. given the career of Boris Johnson there is no problem here; It can be disastrous for the country as long as Boris can spin it and look good.

 

 

in the the CER end of year podcast: Reflecting on 2020 I think it's Christian Odendahl who compared the process of leaving the EU to the process of entering the EU.

 

There are a series of conditions, they are fair because they have to be the same for all, they are very predictable: laid out in advance 

 

...and you have a choice : if you are compliant, you get the deal. If you are not compliant, you simply wait at the door until you fulfill the conditions. It can last years ... or just forever (like the British-sponsored accession of Turkey to the EU)

 

 

and that's wait he said 'apparently the EU exit door looks like the front door'

 

 

as we see it now, it does not matter if brexiteers complain or not, the EU red lines laid out in 2016 did not move so much.

 

If anything, the EU is predictable.

 

.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by Hi from France

[CorpusChristie]

2 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

well, it will give both parties a sense of emergency amid the chaos of "No deal"

 

and will force them to address "priorities" when the UK is running out of food and toilet paper ????

 

   If we have no food, then toilet paper wouldnt be required .

 

[CorpusChristie]

2 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

technically, what stops the EU and Boris in continuing their negotiations after Dec 31st? nothing, and maybe the best way to do it ????

 

  If two sides cannot come to an agreement and both refuse to budge , then no amount of talking will solve that

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

the problem with this nationalist scenarios is they simply cannot happen. The tabloid of @Pattaya Spotter might say "let's just leave" sorry LETS JUST LEAVE but, capitals or not, that's cannot happen even with UKIP.

 

apparently Barnier has been too generous with 25%, even the Irish would veto

 

 

 

Anyway given the "rapport de force", the EU just has to wait and to let the current government deal with recession, covid, traffic jams, layoffs for a while.. given the career of Boris Johnson there is no problem here; It can be disastrous for the country as long as Boris can spin it and look good.

 

 

in the the CER end of year podcast: Reflecting on 2020 I think it's Christian Odendahl who compared the process of leaving the EU to the process of entering the EU.

 

There are a series of conditions, they are very predictable and laid out in advance and you have a choice : if you are compliant, you get the deal. If you are not compliant, you wait at the door.

 

 

apparently the EU exit door looks like the front door

 

 

as we see it now, the EU red lines laid out in 2016 did not move.

 

If anything, the EU is predictable.

 

.

 

 

In my book 40% for EU fishing  is better than nothing , Boris has already told the EU 25% is unacceptable

[Hi from France]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   If we have no food, then toilet paper wouldnt be required .

 

 

a true statement by Corpus, deserves to be framed ????

 

 

now do not doubt that if things got really that critical for the UK, the EU would offer humanitarian help.

 

Now, we are very very very far from that.