16 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Very true.....but quiet, polite protests (even mass ones) don't get you anywhere as politicians can just ignore them.

 

Look at the every so well behaved march for a second referendum versus Poll Tax riots.

Sure I know that polite protests don't get you far. But that is democracy. I don't feel that a small group can put the larger group hostage. If they don't like the government vote them out next time. This is a minority trying to impose their will. Its ok if they do it by polite protests but not if they hostage people outside their sector.

 

I understand that if postmen stop working it inconveniences a lot of people but its what they can do to protest. I feel anyone protesting can always stop doing their job. However if they start to prevent others from doing their job they cross a line. Not just doing a job but blockading others that have nothing to do with the conflict. That is just going too far.

 

If this was a large group, then if large enough the government would listen or face a big loss at elections. Just my views as I been the victim of a few protests. I once could not work because others blocked my work entrance. Also have had problems getting somewhere because of blockades. They only create anger that way.

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

Was that the one where Macron said 'let them eat hake'?

No, the time of The Scarlet Pimpernel.

You know when a chivalrous Englishmen was rescuing French people from the guillotine.

4 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Rory Stewart has revealed he was expelled from the Conservative Party “by text” while receiving GQ magazine’s ‘Politician of the Year’ award.

 

Hell hath no fury like a PM exposed.

 

   No, the name calling came AFTER Stewart got expelled .

Boris expelled Stewart form the Conservative party  .

Stewart then called Boris a liar etc 

That could be the reason for his outburst against Boris , because Boris dismissed him 

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I am not conflating illegal and legal immigrants. Quite the opposite. I am fine with legal immigration as long as it is managed properly. I am not OK with illegal immigrants endangering themselves and their children to come here hidden in boats and lorries, and then claim benefits while UK citizens who have paid tax all their lives can't get treated at hospitals or can't heat their homes with their meagre pensions.

 

You still haven't learned your lesson about insulting Brexit voters have you? No wonder your lot keep losing elections. 

 

Jonathan Pie is one Remainer I can respect. By the way I know it's a spoof before you make any quips about me being unaware because I am a Brexiteer. And I'd bet good money that educational qualifications exceed yours.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEaEBmpu-4o

 

 

 

Right so in what way did being in the EU constrain the UK's ability to handle illegal immigrants?

Illegal immigrants are not given benefits. They are detained until they are processed. 

Legal immigrants do not qualify for benefits for three months. So they come here with a job already lined up. 

These conditions were set by the UK. Other countries in the EU have different rules.

The EU did not set them.

The UK sets its pension. The fact its the worst in the EU is Westminsters fault. Not the EU.

Heating costs have rocketed since the privitisation of supply. Again thats Westminsters fault.

Housing shortages are because of Westminster policies. Nothing to do with the EU.

NHS funding is set by Westminster. If its underfunded its because of the UK's policies. Nothing to do with the EU.

So everything you are trying to blame on the EU is all the fault of Westminster and in particular Conservative governments.

And by voting to damage the UK's economy because of Brexit you have only made the above problems even worse.

3 hours ago, vogie said:

I am not going to go down this never ending spiral of your fantasies with you again. You don't accept anything that anyone with differeing opinions says, it is all about you. Time and time again out comes the "the easiest deal in history, Brexit fundamentalists, polls in favour, you knew what you were voting for right.

Time for a reality check rookie.

 

Because you have simply ignored the evidence put before you and have decided that everyone who voted for Brexit did so because they wanted no deal.

They did not. They voted for Brexit based on what Johnson and vote leave said would happen. They both went to great lengths to claim we would be leaving with a deal.

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sure I know that polite protests don't get you far. But that is democracy. I don't feel that a small group can put the larger group hostage. If they don't like the government vote them out next time. This is a minority trying to impose their will. Its ok if they do it by polite protests but not if they hostage people outside their sector.

 

I understand that if postmen stop working it inconveniences a lot of people but its what they can do to protest. I feel anyone protesting can always stop doing their job. However if they start to prevent others from doing their job they cross a line. Not just doing a job but blockading others that have nothing to do with the conflict. That is just going too far.

 

If this was a large group, then if large enough the government would listen or face a big loss at elections. Just my views as I been the victim of a few protests. I once could not work because others blocked my work entrance. Also have had problems getting somewhere because of blockades. They only create anger that way.

Tell that to the Rotterdam harbor workers .... ( but keep  a distance ...LOL...????)  or  those from Antwerp harbor workers ,( their competition ..) they know they can block a country .....better even are those river & sea guides as they are few only to strike , same as air-controle people ...... every one use the power they have to obtain what they want..... best example of power use are our goverments...????

????

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So everything you are trying to blame on the EU is all the fault of Westminster and in particular Conservative governments.

Expect Ha-ha & Confused emoticons for this.

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

This "easiest deal in history" thing is so played out. why don't you use the full quote? He was absolutely right but you only use the first part of the quote. Completely disingenuous.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/20/liam-fox-uk-eu-trade-deal-after-brexit-easiest-human-history

 

Liam Fox speaking in 2017? A year after the referendum and at the point where suddenly the Brexit fundamentalists in the Conservative party STARTED talking about no deal. Bit late after the votes are counted eh?

Johnson, Gove, Farage and vote leave were all claiming BEFORE the referendum we would get a deal.

There is no mandate for leaving with no deal. Thats not what the people were promised.

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Because you have simply ignored the evidence put before you and have decided that everyone who voted for Brexit did so because they wanted no deal.

They did not. They voted for Brexit based on what Johnson and vote leave said would happen. They both went to great lengths to claim we would be leaving with a deal.

 

  Johnson wasnt PM at the time , David Cameron was UK PM 

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Johnson wasnt PM at the time , David Cameron was UK PM 

So what? Cameron was telling people to vote for remain.

Did you listen to him?

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

So what? Cameron was telling people to vote for remain.

Did you listen to him?

 

  I didnt listen to him, no .

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Liam Fox speaking in 2017? A year after the referendum and at the point where suddenly the Brexit fundamentalists in the Conservative party STARTED talking about no deal. Bit late after the votes are counted eh?

Johnson, Gove, Farage and vote leave were all claiming BEFORE the referendum we would get a deal.

There is no mandate for leaving with no deal. Thats not what the people were promised.

 

  I do not agree with that , but anyways , what point would you like to make ?

If what you said was correct , what do you think should happen in the future ?

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

what do you think should happen in the future ?

Politicians should stop lying?

35 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Because you have simply ignored the evidence put before you and have decided that everyone who voted for Brexit did so because they wanted no deal.

They did not. They voted for Brexit based on what Johnson and vote leave said would happen. They both went to great lengths to claim we would be leaving with a deal.

You don't know why people voted leave but everyone that voted leave understood what was on the ballot paper

and Cameron told everyone 28 times if you vote leave the uk will be leaving the EU, the single market, ECJ 

17 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Politicians should stop lying?

 

  I dont think that predictions about what will happen in the future , can be considered to be a lie.

I dont want to delve into it though , gets rather tedious talking about whether someone told a lie or not .

What I have found also is that people who regularly call other people liars , are often the biggest liars of them all  

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

What I have found also is that people who regularly call other people liars , are often the biggest liars of them all  

That's a lie.

Edited December 15, 20205 yr by Surelynot

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

That's a lie.

 

  No it isnt 

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

 

  No it isnt 

It's nearly Christmas, so.....Oh yes it is.

44 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Right so in what way did being in the EU constrain the UK's ability to handle illegal immigrants?

Illegal immigrants are not given benefits. They are detained until they are processed. 

Legal immigrants do not qualify for benefits for three months. So they come here with a job already lined up. 

These conditions were set by the UK. Other countries in the EU have different rules.

The EU did not set them.

The UK sets its pension. The fact its the worst in the EU is Westminsters fault. Not the EU.

Heating costs have rocketed since the privitisation of supply. Again thats Westminsters fault.

Housing shortages are because of Westminster policies. Nothing to do with the EU.

NHS funding is set by Westminster. If its underfunded its because of the UK's policies. Nothing to do with the EU.

So everything you are trying to blame on the EU is all the fault of Westminster and in particular Conservative governments.

And by voting to damage the UK's economy because of Brexit you have only made the above problems even worse.

 

Typical of you to blame everything on Westminster. No mention of the SNP's appalling record on education and health. You extreme Scots nationalists do a great job of deflecting all of the SNP's failings onto Westminster.

 

If the EU managed it's own borders properly we wouldn't have thousands of illegals queued up at France waiting to get to Dover. If they managed them properly once they landed in the EU they would be fingerprinted or registered with an asylum claim so we could send them back to the first member state they arrived in under the Dublin III law. But they don't.

 

In terms of legal migrants, we will now be able to set a points based system so we get the cream of the crop, not the dregs that are allowed in simply because they have an EU passport. We will no longer have to discriminate against skilled people from outside the EU in favour of dregs with the right passport. No doubt you'd prefer unskilled Europeans to skilled Africans and Asians, I think we all know why.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

It's nearly Christmas, so.....Oh yes it is.

 

  Like in this instance , people tell a lie misquoting Boris and then go on to call him a liar, when infect, its them who are lying .

  They frequently make up things whilst accursing others of lying  .

Anyway, I dont want to get into a dumb discussion about lying 

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

we get the cream of the crop

Romania fruit pickers with degrees....mmmm?

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

Rory Stewart has revealed he was expelled from the Conservative Party “by text” while receiving GQ magazine’s ‘Politician of the Year’ award.

 

Hell hath no fury like a PM exposed.

A GQ magazine award.....................   

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Like in this instance , people tell a lie misquoting Boris and then go on to call him a liar, when infect, its them who are lying .

  They frequently make up things whilst accursing others of lying  .

Anyway, I dont want to get into a dumb discussion about lying 

You don't do humor...do you?.....(Oh yes I do)

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Romania fruit pickers with degrees....mmmm?

An asinine, facetious comment. If we need fruit pickers, we shall allow fruit pickers for as long as we need them.

 

That's the beauty of controlling your own immigration policy, instead of having a free for all for anyone with the right passport.

14 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

An asinine, facetious comment. If we need fruit pickers, we shall allow fruit pickers for as long as we need them.

 

That's the beauty of controlling your own immigration policy, instead of having a free for all for anyone with the right passport.

Mandatory criteria set out by the Home Office says that migrants will need to have a job offer in Britain from a licensed sponsor (20 points), the job must be or at the above “minimum skill level” (20 points), and the person applying must be able to speak English “to an acceptable standard” (10 points).

 

How many fruit pickers will meet these mandatory criteria I wonder?

4 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Mandatory criteria set out by the Home Office says that migrants will need to have a job offer in Britain from a licensed sponsor (20 points), the job must be or at the above “minimum skill level” (20 points), and the person applying must be able to speak English “to an acceptable standard” (10 points).

 

How many fruit pickers will meet these mandatory criteria I wonder?

Well it's set by the Home Office, so if they need to adjust it they can.

 

That's called Sovereignty. 

 

Starting to get it yet?

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Well it's set by the Home Office, so if they need to adjust it they can.

 

That's called Sovereignty. 

 

Starting to get it yet?

Thought we were trying to stop all these ne'er-do-wells from stealing our jobs....not just keep shifting the goal posts in a mandaTORY system to end up back where we started?

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Thought we were trying to stop all these ne'er-do-wells from stealing our jobs....not just keep shifting the goal posts in a mandaTORY system to end up back where we started?

If that's what you thought, maybe better not to share.????

 

The idea of sensible immigration policy is to fill jobs in sectors where you need workers. Not to let any Tom Dick and Harry in without background checks to work zero hours contracts and undercutting the wages of the local population just because they hold a passport from one of 27 countries.

29 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

Typical of you to blame everything on Westminster. No mention of the SNP's appalling record on education and health. You extreme Scots nationalists do a great job of deflecting all of the SNP's failings onto Westminster.

 

If the EU managed it's own borders properly we wouldn't have thousands of illegals queued up at France waiting to get to Dover. If they managed them properly once they landed in the EU they would be fingerprinted or registered with an asylum claim so we could send them back to the first member state they arrived in under the Dublin III law. But they don't.

 

In terms of legal migrants, we will now be able to set a points based system so we get the cream of the crop, not the dregs that are allowed in simply because they have an EU passport. We will no longer have to discriminate against skilled people from outside the EU in favour of dregs with the right passport. No doubt you'd prefer unskilled Europeans to skilled Africans and Asians, I think we all know why.

 

 

 

A lengthy post which completely fails to address my points and is simply an attempt at deflection.

I pointed out to you that all the things you were complaining about are ALL under the control of the UK not the EU.

Unskilled Europeans came here to work doing the jobs Brits dont want to.

Who is going to do those jobs in the future? You? Patriotic Brexiteers?

Nope. Unskilled workers will still be given access because the UK needs them.

Brexit will make no difference to that.

What are you going to do with the 6 million from Hong Kong potentially coming to the UK?

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Not to let any Tom Dick and Harry in without background checks to work zero hours contracts and undercutting the wages of the local population

Do the Tories know this?