10 minutes ago, Loiner said:

I'm not absolutely sure what your point is here, but absolutely sure it's rubbish anyway. You told us that "...it's a little bit more difficult to agree on a compromise when 27 sovereignties work together.." and I understand that to mean the EU cannot be pragmatic.

 

Whatever you are trying to say above does not display any pragmatism in obtaining a deal with a strong negotiator like the UK. Your 27 as 1 vs 1 would be accepted as bullying in the school yard, but hasn't been successful anyway. Time for the strongest of your 27 to start being pragmatic with your remainder.

what else do you have in your hand when EU fishermen receive financial support in compensation for losing access to British waters?    

What do you have in your hand when negotiating with China or the US? 

What do you get whith your post-Brexit deals that you wouldn't get as member as the EU? 

Edited December 21, 20205 yr by Opl

1 minute ago, Opl said:

what else do you have in your hand when EU fishermen receive financial support in compensation for losing access to British waters?    

What do you have in your hand when negotiating with China, the US? 

When EU fishermen loose access to British waters, we don't need anything in our hand. Either Macron collapsed completely, or its No Deal.

 

When negotiating with China or US, as with any negotiation, we always have the option to walk away No Deal.

11 minutes ago, Opl said:

when EU fishermen receive financial support in compensation for losing access to British waters

That makes the CFP sound very much like the CAP - EU pays for French doing nothing again. Sounds OK to me (possibly even pragmatic for the negitiation) as UK would not be contributing to it, but I doubt it would go down well with the other 26 though. Which of the few pays even more for your subsidy, or which of the leech states receives less? 

1 hour ago, Opl said:

You're right.

it was also easier to compromise in order to "please" and keep a member, than to compromise to cope with the consequences of a leaving member's sole decision. 

The Single Market integrity is as prevalent to the remaining members, as it was to the UK - there is no change. 

Now I would agree with you there IF, the Single Market was the EEC, which it was when the UK joined back in 1973, some 47 years ago.

15 hours ago, david555 said:

so prepare for rescue re-build U.K. number 3 U.K. this time .... possible only England & Wales  depending a certain outcome 

Could be, but well worth it......

15 hours ago, Mavideol said:

did anybody check today's waiting lines at Dover and the mess the UK has at their airport... panic is settle in 555

Start your own thread, may I suggest the motoring forum....????

15 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Get a life

Touchy, touchy........????

1 hour ago, transam said:

Touchy, touchy........????

Feely, feely........????

1 hour ago, transam said:

Start your own thread, may I suggest the motoring forum....????

Non-motoring forum?

14 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Feely, feely........????

Surelynot...........it really is. ????????????

Johnson...folding, as expected, like a cheap suit.

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

Johnson...folding, as expected, like a cheap suit.

The British demand for a 60% reduction in the catch by value in British waters had been reduced to 35%, far closer to the 25% reduction that Frost’s EU counterpart, Michel Barnier, had said he would be prepared to accept.

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Johnson...folding, as expected, like a cheap suit.

link please

Just now, vinny41 said:

link please

As it's you Vinny and you asked so politely...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/21/boris-johnson-rejects-calls-extend-brexit-talks-2021?CMP=share_btn_link

12 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Johnson...folding, as expected, like a cheap suit.

 

Funny how Remainers always confuse compromising during a negotiation as folding ????.

 

Fortunately, since the EU is unable to compromise on absolutely anything, Boris' kind offer to get this deal through will come to nothing. Obviously he knows that, which is why he made the offer in the first place. This very generous offer by the UK and subsequent refusal by the EU will be another excellent example of the bad faith exhibited by the EU when we rip up the WA in a few months time.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

Funny how Remainers always confuse compromising during a negotiation as folding ????.

 

Fortunately, since the EU is unable to compromise on absolutely anything, Boris' kind offer to get this deal through will come to nothing. Obviously he knows that, which is why he made the offer in the first place. This very generous offer by the UK and subsequent refusal by the EU will be another excellent example of the bad faith exhibited by the EU when we rip up the WA in a few months time.

Excellent reponse.......very good.

How many of those who voted to leave had the slightest idea what they were voting for?

My opinion, they only thought they had was that it would make a difference to immigration figures. Outside that idea they had no other thoughts.

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

Johnson...folding, as expected, like a cheap suit.

 

  Thats the kind of attitude that causes stalemate and resentment .

Where compromise is seen as a weakness and non compromise is seen as winning 

Thats why weve had four years of non progression 

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

  That's the kind of attitude that causes stalemate and resentment .

Where compromise is seen as a weakness and non compromise is seen as winning 

That's why we've had four years of non progression 

I am often not in agreement with your posts, but this one is 'spot on' and it is true irrespective of which party is not willing to look for honorable compromise.

14 minutes ago, overherebc said:

How many of those who voted to leave had the slightest idea what they were voting for?

 

 

  I would say, about 13 million voters

2 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  I would say, about 13 million voters

About 1/6th of the number of Turks queued at the border?

7 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

About 1/6th of the number of Turks queued at the border?

 

  You'll have to explain that one to me, it went straight over my head 

16 hours ago, Opl said:

You're right.

it was also easier to compromise in order to "please" and keep a member, than to compromise to cope with the consequences of a leaving member's sole decision. 

The Single Market integrity is as prevalent to the remaining members, as it was to the UK - there is no change. 

Perhaps if the EU and the UK had compromised back in 2015/2016, Brexit may not have happened.

 

You cannot change history, but you can learn from it if you want to. That goes equally for both sides.

34 minutes ago, overherebc said:

How many of those who voted to leave had the slightest idea what they were voting for?

My opinion, they only thought they had was that it would make a difference to immigration figures. Outside that idea they had no other thoughts.

Here is snapshot of why voters voted remain or leave

Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.”

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Here is snapshot of why voters voted remain or leave

Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.”

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

Those could have been negotiated for the same length of time and watered down versions implemented to keep the great unwashed happy.

6 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Those could have been negotiated for the same length of time and watered down versions implemented to keep the great unwashed happy.

Negotiate?

 

With the EU?

 

Have you learned nothing? ????????????

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

since the EU is unable to compromise on absolutely anything

 

I don't know the real reason.

 

Put I wrote here already my " Conspiration Theory " being :

 

The E.U. wasn't pleased at all when the U.K. left the Union.

They decided that further cooperation with the U.K. would only be at their specific conditions, and only prepared to compromise a itsy-bitsy.

If the U.K. would accept their conditions or a part of it, it would be a " sweet revenge " for the E.U..

They know that the U.K. could step away at any time.

(In the meantime , it is a fact that after years and years, they still haven't)

The E.U. know that no deal will certainly cause a lot of problems, they are however convinced that the U.K. would be confronted with a lot of problems too.

So a loose-loose seems acceptable for the E.U., hence a no real desire to compromise.

 

 

 

 

15 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Those could have been negotiated for the same length of time and watered down versions implemented to keep the great unwashed happy.

 

  No, those conditions couldnt be negotiated .

Wanting to make our own rules, meant we had to leave the E.U  

15 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Those could have been negotiated for the same length of time and watered down versions implemented to keep the great unwashed happy.

I assume the 17,410,742  people that voted to leave or as you label them "the great unwashed" didn't vote the way you want them to vote

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

Johnson...folding, as expected, like a cheap suit.

From where I am sitting it looks a bit more like a compromise. Now the EU has the choice to meet it or not.

 

Somebody now needs to bend Macron's ear a bit.

Edited December 22, 20205 yr by billd766
Bad spelling