Scotland's Sturgeon calls for extension to Brexit transition period

[onthedarkside]

Several posts with derogatory name calling and replies have been removed. Please refer to public figures by their actual names, not the made-up versions that might be imagined.

 

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

You are confusing me now, evadgib - why would the English town of Berwick upon Tweed be represented in the Scottish parliament? Might you be referring to the seat of Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire? It already has a Tory MSP but I am unclear as to her intentions  re the future relationship between SE Scotland and an independent England. Given that she is from Hereford, maybe she would, indeed, prefer to live in England.  

You're on the right track RR but as yet you don't know who's hat has been thrown into the ring.

[nauseus]

On 12/21/2020 at 9:27 AM, Hi from France said:

Definitely: but we have a nationalist-populist government in power, they are locked in their own discourse.

• The UK has "lost control"
• The UK was "exploited by the EU"
• The UK needs to regain control over its own destiny it "at all costs and whatever the consequences"

 

once you are there, do you really believe £200 billions (and counting) will stop you?

 

so 50.000 dead bodies won't stop you either...

 

 

There is no real limit in what a nationalist-populist government can inflict to its population and economy. We have many examples : Brazil, the USA, Turkey...

 

 

 

And given how much Covid compounds Brexit that would make perfect sense to deal with one crisis at a time... for a normal, clever British government or if the UK had a statesman as a prime minister.

 

 

.

 

If you are so keen on perfect sense why post this mixed bag of complete bull? 

[norfolkc]

She will sell her soul to the devil to keep in with the EU she will not admit it but the EU is using her to cause trouble in the UK 

[Laughing Gravy]

38 minutes ago, norfolkc said:

She will sell her soul to the devil to keep in with the EU she will not admit it but the EU is using her to cause trouble in the UK 

I believe she knows it and is so anti British and especially anti English she doesn't care about her country folk only herself. If The Scots vote for this vile women then they only have themselves to blame.

 

I have a feeling there is more trouble ahead for her, which is nothing less than she deserves.

[RuamRudy]

7 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I believe she knows it and is so anti British and especially anti English she doesn't care about her country folk only herself. If The Scots vote for this vile women then they only have themselves to blame.

 

I have a feeling there is more trouble ahead for her, which is nothing less than she deserves.

 

Can you point to examples of her being anti English? 

Britain is an island. How can one be anti-geography?

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, norfolkc said:

She will sell her soul to the devil to keep in with the EU she will not admit it but the EU is using her to cause trouble in the UK 

 

The majority of my country voted to stay in the EU. Support for the EU in Scotland remains as strong as ever. It is not about her, it is about us.

[vogie]

30 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

The majority of my country voted to stay in the EU. Support for the EU in Scotland remains as strong as ever. It is not about her, it is about us.

That is the problem with nationalism, it is all about you. Your "country" didn't get to decide, it was a UK decision that voted to leave, and left we have, democracy has worked. You cannot have a few dissidents deciding that they don't like the result, stop trying to regionalise everything, we are stronger together.

[RuamRudy]

54 minutes ago, vogie said:

That is the problem with nationalism, it is all about you. Your "country" didn't get to decide, it was a UK decision that voted to leave, and left we have, democracy has worked. You cannot have a few dissidents deciding that they don't like the result, stop trying to regionalise everything, we are stronger together.

 

My country is Scotland, which is in an unequal political union with England. No amount of stomping you feet will change that; no amount of trying to pretend that none of the home nations exist in their own right will change that. 

 

I respect your country's right to choose to leave the EU. Why can you not respect my country having the right to reject that for ourselves? It is a bit selfish not to do so, would you not agree? 

[vogie]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

My country is Scotland, which is in an unequal political union with England. No amount of stomping you feet will change that; no amount of trying to pretend that none of the home nations exist in their own right will change that. 

 

I respect your country's right to choose to leave the EU. Why can you not respect my country having the right to reject that for ourselves? It is a bit selfish not to do so, would you not agree? 

As part of the UK why can't you respect the democratic decision of the people that voted, you are still part of the UK whether you like it or not.

[Hi from France]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

My country is Scotland, which is in an unequal political union with England. No amount of stomping you feet will change that; no amount of trying to pretend that none of the home nations exist in their own right will change that. 

 

I respect your country's right to choose to leave the EU. Why can you not respect my country having the right to reject that for ourselves? It is a bit selfish not to do so, would you not agree? 

In the same way that the English chose to leave the EU, they have to give the Scottish people the very same right to choose their future. 

 

And all this Brexiteers talk about the UK being "in shackles"... The EU "shackles" were nothing compared to England imposing its will on Scotland don't you think? 

[RuamRudy]

Refreshing to see finally some honesty from the Brexit loving Spectator:

 

Britain has won the biggest Brexit prize of all

 

"In the end, the fish were only of symbolic importance. Neither does it matter that much what happens to Scottish seed potatoes, no matter how much of a fuss Nicola Sturgeon kicks up. "

[CG1 Blue]

The UK now has a trade deal with the EU, which can only improve GDP stability / growth prospects. The UK just leapfrogged India to retake it's place as the world's 5th largest economy. Over the next few months we will see the UK economy recover further from the damage done by Covid 19. 

 

Nicola Sturgeon has missed her chance to capitalise on the uncertainty around Brexit and the pandemic. The number of Scots leaning towards independence will start to dwindle as they weigh up the risks of independence versus staying part of a stabilising (maybe prospering) UK. 

 

I expect Sturgeon to try every trick in the book now to destabilise the UK in order to regain the momentum towards independence. 

 

Just my opinion of course. 

[RuamRudy]

5 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

The UK now has a trade deal with the EU, which can only improve GDP stability / growth prospects. The UK just leapfrogged India to retake it's place as the world's 5th largest economy. Over the next few months we will see the UK economy recover further from the damage done by Covid 19. 

 

Nicola Sturgeon has missed her chance to capitalise on the uncertainty around Brexit and the pandemic. The number of Scots leaning towards independence will start to dwindle as they weigh up the risks of independence versus staying part of a stabilising (maybe prospering) UK. 

 

I expect Sturgeon to try every trick in the book now to destabilise the UK in order to regain the momentum towards independence. 

 

Just my opinion of course. 

 

With the majority already against Brexit, the only people in Scotland really shoring up the tories were the fishermen and the farmers. It looks like he has upset them. Why are you so sure that Sturgeon's star will wane and Johnson's soar? We see her compassion and competence, qualities he had shown he simply does not have. 

 

Scottish fishing industry ‘betrayed’ by Brexit deal

 

Nicola Sturgeon blasts 'disastrous' Brexit deal for Scottish farmers

[Hi from France]

28 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

With the majority already against Brexit, the only people in Scotland really shoring up the tories were the fishermen and the farmers. It looks like he has upset them. Why are you so sure that Sturgeon's star will wane and Johnson's soar? We see her compassion and competence, qualities he had shown he simply does not have. 

 

Scottish fishing industry ‘betrayed’ by Brexit deal

 

Nicola Sturgeon blasts 'disastrous' Brexit deal for Scottish farmers

for me I have no doubt that Scotland and England diverge, and that English nationalism has imposed Scotland to leave the European Union through no will of its own.

 

Now supposing Scotland gets a referendum (I still do not know how: event if most tories approve it, Tory politicians won't and Labour politicians won't either).

 

So supposing Scotland gets a referendum and Scotland decide to simultaneously leave the UK and rejoin the EU.

 

How would this work in practical terms? We are used to see nations who intend to separate (Belgium mostly, but also Spain/Catalonia) but cannot.

 

For example how do you split the national debt? What about the NHS? I suppose there are plenty of very complicated issues that need to be addressed.

 

 

How?

 

.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Hi from France

[vogie]

,

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

With the majority already against Brexit, the only people in Scotland really shoring up the tories were the fishermen and the farmers. It looks like he has upset them. Why are you so sure that Sturgeon's star will wane and Johnson's soar? We see her compassion and competence, qualities he had shown he simply does not have. 

 

Scottish fishing industry ‘betrayed’ by Brexit deal

 

Nicola Sturgeon blasts 'disastrous' Brexit deal for Scottish farmers

It has only been 6 years since the SNP voted to exit the EU, because that is what would have happened if their quest to partition the UK had have been successful. The SNP have finally got their wish, we have left.

And as for Scottish fishing being "betrayed" don't you think that if (highly unlikely) the SNP get their way and rejoin the EU it would mean giving all their Scottish fishing industry away to the EU. 

The UK getting a good deal from the EU has to be the worst case scenario for the SNP.

[JonnyF]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

With the majority already against Brexit, the only people in Scotland really shoring up the tories were the fishermen and the farmers. It looks like he has upset them. Why are you so sure that Sturgeon's star will wane and Johnson's soar? We see her compassion and competence, qualities he had shown he simply does not have. 

 

Scottish fishing industry ‘betrayed’ by Brexit deal

 

Nicola Sturgeon blasts 'disastrous' Brexit deal for Scottish farmers

Compassion and competence?

 

Are you serious? She throws people under the bus whenever it suits her and her record on health and education is appalling. 

 

Nasty and inept would be more accurate. 

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

,

It has only been 6 years since the SNP voted to exit the EU, because that is what would have happened if their quest to partition the UK had have been successful. The SNP have finally got their wish, we have left.

And as for Scottish fishing being "betrayed" don't you think that if (highly unlikely) the SNP get their way and rejoin the EU it would mean giving all their Scottish fishing industry away to the EU. 

The UK getting a good deal from the EU has to be the worst case scenario for the SNP.

Exactly. If you think the EU drove a hard bargain with the UK, imagine what they'd demand from Scotland to break their rules and allow them to join.

 

According to the Europhiles the EU could demand what they want during Brexit as they are the A side and UK is the B side. Scotland will be the Z side.

 

The politest way of describing it is to say Scotland will have their pants pulled down. Other analogies would be more accurate but result in another ban.

 

The SNP plan is to get a second referendum, win it, leave, adopt the pound allowing the BOE to dictate their monetary policy for years, then have the EU break their own rules on membership to allow them to join with a great deal.

 

And they speak of unicorns ????

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

The SNP plan is to get a second referendum, win it, leave, adopt the pound allowing the BOE to dictate their monetary policy for years, then have the EU break their own rules on membership to allow them to join with a great deal.

An inevitable conclusion, given their refusal to say what they intend to use as a currency, as an independent nation. "We will decide when the time is right" is not a policy which inspires any confidence; it is likely what put the boot into their last referendum, it seems, oh, "a lifetime ago"!

 

Perhaps one of the reasons for the current UK government to grant them their demands for another referendum is concern that this sort of "We will decide when the time is right", in a number of areas, will result in economic damage to the rest of the United Kingdom - and until in such areas they can at least present recognisable realistic  policies, the downsides of which can be planned for, they are reluctant to start the process.

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, vogie said:

,

It has only been 6 years since the SNP voted to exit the EU, because that is what would have happened if their quest to partition the UK had have been successful. The SNP have finally got their wish, we have left.

And as for Scottish fishing being "betrayed" don't you think that if (highly unlikely) the SNP get their way and rejoin the EU it would mean giving all their Scottish fishing industry away to the EU. 

The UK getting a good deal from the EU has to be the worst case scenario for the SNP.

 

Why do you insist on using that incredibly sensitive term in a wholly incorrect manner? 

 

As you well know, Scotland was never a member of the EU so it was inevitable that we would not be able to remain within the organisation under the terms negotiated by the UK. As has been explained ad nauseum, an independent Scotland would hold a referendum to determine the preferred nature of our future relationship with the EU. The EU itself has been and continues to be very positive in its support of an independent country with all the laws and processes of the EU easily acceding. And, indeed, only last week the Scottish Parliament voted in favour of ensuring that, moving forward, Scots law remains aligned with EU law. 

 

Scotland to stay 'aligned' with EU laws after MSPs pass Brexit Bill

The Scottish Parliament has passed legislation which would allow Scots law to remain aligned with EU rules and regulations when the Brexit transition ends in January.

 

I think Johnson's lies are beginning to bear fruit. He lied to the farmers and he lied to the fishermen, the only people in Scotland who had any sort of respect for the man. Why on earth anyone would think that a man who has lied and lied and lied his entire life to the people closest to him would do anything else to the general public is beyond me, but I have no doubt that the scales have fallen from many more eyes of late.

[RuamRudy]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Compassion and competence?

 

Are you serious? She throws people under the bus whenever it suits her and her record on health and education is appalling. 

 

Nasty and inept would be more accurate. 

 

Yet she is more popular in England than Johnson? That wouldn't make sense if your statements were correct, would it?

 

Nicola Sturgeon more popular in England than Boris Johnson

NICOLA Sturgeon is more popular in England than Boris Johnson, polling has been revealed.

A YouGov survey found that Scotland's First Minister has higher approval ratings than the Tory leader in every English region except one, the Times revealed.

[transam]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Why do you insist on using that incredibly sensitive term in a wholly incorrect manner? 

 

As you well know, Scotland was never a member of the EU so it was inevitable that we would not be able to remain within the organisation under the terms negotiated by the UK. As has been explained ad nauseum, an independent Scotland would hold a referendum to determine the preferred nature of our future relationship with the EU. The EU itself has been and continues to be very positive in its support of an independent country with all the laws and processes of the EU easily acceding. And, indeed, only last week the Scottish Parliament voted in favour of ensuring that, moving forward, Scots law remains aligned with EU law. 

 

Scotland to stay 'aligned' with EU laws after MSPs pass Brexit Bill

The Scottish Parliament has passed legislation which would allow Scots law to remain aligned with EU rules and regulations when the Brexit transition ends in January.

 

I think Johnson's lies are beginning to bear fruit. He lied to the farmers and he lied to the fishermen, the only people in Scotland who had any sort of respect for the man. Why on earth anyone would think that a man who has lied and lied and lied his entire life to the people closest to him would do anything else to the general public is beyond me, but I have no doubt that the scales have fallen from many more eyes of late.

Perhaps, but I reckon the same has happened with your Scottish leader, or should I say leaders.  

[CG1 Blue]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

And, indeed, only last week the Scottish Parliament voted in favour of ensuring that, moving forward, Scots law remains aligned with EU law. 

Do you think that was wise? Doesn't that mean Scotland would be bound by EU regulations but not receive any of the benefits of self regulation?

Given that the process of joining the EU might take 5-10 years during which time you'd need to bring the deficit down and meet all the other financial requirements, I'd have thought you'd be better off making hay while the sun shines. 

[RuamRudy]

12 hours ago, Hi from France said:

for me I have no doubt that Scotland and England diverge, and that English nationalism has imposed Scotland to leave the European Union through no will of its own.

 

Now supposing Scotland gets a referendum (I still do not know how: event if most tories approve it, Tory politicians won't and Labour politicians won't either).

 

So supposing Scotland gets a referendum and Scotland decide to simultaneously leave the UK and rejoin the EU.

 

How would this work in practical terms? We are used to see nations who intend to separate (Belgium mostly, but also Spain/Catalonia) but cannot.

 

For example how do you split the national debt? What about the NHS? I suppose there are plenty of very complicated issues that need to be addressed.

 

 

How?

 

.

 

Nobody is denying that there would need to be protracted negotiations, but something being difficult is no reason to not do it if the end result can be proven to be net positive.

 

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Do you think that was wise? Doesn't that mean Scotland would be bound by EU regulations but not receive any of the benefits of self regulation?

Given that the process of joining the EU might take 5-10 years during which time you'd need to bring the deficit down and meet all the other financial requirements, I'd have thought you'd be better off making hay while the sun shines. 

 

I believe it wise to remain aligned in general, yes. My intent will be that we seek to rejoin the EU to some degree as early as possible; any means of reducing inconsistencies in advance must surely ease the entry?

 

The deficit is entirely notional and totally finger in the air stuff. What we know is that Scotland contributes at least 58 billion to the exchequer and receives back around 30 billion for SG spend. We have no control over the remainder that Westminster spends, nor do we have any say over how much they attribute to Scotland for their spend. One of the ideas of independence is that we will make better choices over how we utilise our resources.  

 

We will, of course, still have a deficit, as does every other country in the world, but hopefully it will be better managed that the Westminster deficit which is currently at record levels.

[sometime]

Petition Hold a referendum on returning devolved powers to the UK Government

The Government to hold a referendum in Scotland on ending devolution and returning responsibility for devolved powers to the UK Government and Parliament.

Here is the link  https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/333012

[JonnyF]

I'm delighted with the potato seed ban.

 

If Sturgeon continually wants to undermine us and create division to split up the UK then she shouldn't expect us to fight her corner while she stabs us in the back.

 

Fall into line, or get another political slap. You can only bite the hand that feeds you for so long before the support dries up.

 

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, sometime said:

Petition Hold a referendum on returning devolved powers to the UK Government

The Government to hold a referendum in Scotland on ending devolution and returning responsibility for devolved powers to the UK Government and Parliament.

Here is the link  https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/333012

Awesome. I'm in like Flynn. 

[CG1 Blue]

43 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

What we know is that Scotland contributes at least 58 billion to the exchequer and receives back around 30 billion for SG spend. We have no control over the remainder that Westminster spends, nor do we have any say over how much they attribute to Scotland for their spend.

Sounds very similar to the Brexit argument to be honest, i.e. the UK was paying vast sums to the EU, getting some back, with the EU deciding what to do with the rest. 

 

I agree it's difficult to calculate the total deficit an independent Scotland would be liable for. I just did a google search and the estimates are all over the place, depending on which 'experts' are asked. 7% of GDP seems to be the top end of the estimates. Even if that is halved to 3.5% there would still be some pain to endure to get below the EU's 3% maximum. 

 

In any case, I didn't vote to leave the EU based on GDP forecasts etc., so I can't criticise Scottish nationalists for taking a bit of a punt on the financial outcome of independence. 

[nkg]

Poor wee Jimmy Krankie is fuming ????????????