CB500F gen 2 (2015-2016) comparing to gen 1

[Agusts]

Has anyone ridden the 2 models and can tell them difference...!? Of course newer model is better, but is it a big deal...?

 

As far as I know:

 

- new exhaust

- all LED lights

- some new styling / bodywork

- some improvement to clutch but no slipper clutch

- adjustable front shocks

 

(By the way, I test rode a Benelli Leoncino 500 for a few minutes in parking lot, didn't like it much, nice upright seating position but very heavy front and weird handlebar and handling, also vibrates quite a bit at 6000rpm, even standing still...! , so back to CB500F, I am test riding a gen 1 later today...).

 

 

[canthai55]

Rented one for the weekend a few years ago - old model

Found it to be down on HP, and the new model will be the same.

Would be looking for more after a week - if that long

[Agusts]

23 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Rented one for the weekend a few years ago - old model

Found it to be down on HP, and the new model will be the same.

Would be looking for more after a week - if that long

 

Well, I'm on 300cc Forza scooter now, so 500cc geared bike should keep me entertained for a while..., just looking for a 2nd bike as a toy to occasionally enjoy a ride around, would like to keep my Forza as main bike... 

 

I also don't want to spend more than 80k or about that..., looked at some Er6n and Z650, these Kawa engines vibrate and too much lean forward for my liking..., I also sat an old Versys 650, rough and loud buzzy engine, I'm sure has lots of power, but can not be called refined engine - take all with a pinch of salt, I have little actual riding experience on these...

 

Suzuki V-twin SV650 must be a great engine (only reading from reviews) but around 130k used. CB650F the same, also inline 4 , no vibes but very high revving racer boy bike and expensive. I want a relaxed low revving bike, so CB500F tick all the marks...(Rebel 500 also good but around 120k too). Benelli also has a 600i, but old one no ABS.

 

BTW, the Leoncino guy said Benelli twin is 360 such that both pistons go up and down together, hence a bit more torque low-end than Honda 500 that is 180 and goes one up one down. But I'm guessing that's why it has more vibes too...

 

[eisfeld]

I call BS on the firing order resulting in more torque. Yes there will be double the torque in one firing pulse but only half as frequent as with the 180 degree crank so for one full revolution it evens out. The guy doesn't know what he's talking about. But yes it will result in more vibes as the forces on the crank are concentrated more. It's not balancing out anything and essentially becomes a convoluted single.

 

What will dictate the torque is the bore vs stroke ratio, the compression ratio and general tune of things in terms of throttle opening etc. The Benelli has a little bit more bore (69mm vs 67mm) at identical stroke. Plus it has 30cc more. Compression Ratio is a bit higher as well. That's where it can extract a bit more torque but I doubt it will be a world of a difference. Max power for both is exactly the same as they both max out the EU A2 license limit of 35kW.

[Agusts]

Out of interest, how is the parallel twin on Kawa 650 engines , is 180° like Honda...!? Or what about Yamaha MT-07...,  I'm guessing Suzuki V-twin is very different...!

 

[guzzi850m2]

Your choice is very limited with a 80k budget.

 

MT07 is highly praised in tests and I think it was bike of the year in the middle class category, doubt you can get one below 100k.  

 

Er6 gives you a lot of bike for that money, you can always change the handle bar later on.

 

Rough engine, well that's because you come from a 300cc scooter, you will get used to it, it's not too bad.

 

The Er6 was a much loved bike back in its day, a lot of bang for the buck, a no frills bike, engine very robust if taken care of.

 

If I was on your budget, I would get the Er6 hands down.

 

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/bike-reviews/kawasaki/er-6n/

[Agusts]

Yes, I read MT-07 is a top bike and a bike for me to upgrade to in a couple of years  ...

 

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, Agusts said:

Out of interest, how is the parallel twin on Kawa 650 engines , is 180° like Honda...!? Or what about Yamaha MT-07...,  I'm guessing Suzuki V-twin is very different...!

 

 

Yea the Kawa 650 is a 180 degree crank like the Honda. The MT-07 has a 270 crank like the Africa Twin, that's why they have a V-Twin like sound. The Suzi has a 90 degree V with a 360 degree crank which results in the same ignition interval like the MT-07 or Africa Twin or most the Ducati twins.

[Agusts]

Incidentally I came across this guy's website with good writing about bikes and explanation of 180, 270, 360 degree crank firing orders with great animation:

 

https://motofomo.com/motorcycles-270-degree-crank/

 

He also has good write ups on other stuff, the SV650 buying guide was helpful:

 

https://motofomo.com/suzuki-sv650-buyers-guide-sv650s-sv650x/

 

Just reading this one too:

 

https://motofomo.com/what-to-check-when-buying-a-used-motorcycle/

 

Check it out...(well, if you haven't seen it before !)

 

[VocalNeal]

On 12/24/2020 at 3:50 PM, canthai55 said:

Rented one for the weekend a few years ago - old model

Found it to be down on HP, and the new model will be the same.

Would be looking for more after a week - if that long

 

Doesn't bode well for my Versys 300 then?

[Agusts]

I tested an old gen 1 CB500F last week, 2013 very low mileage, in good condition, needed new tyres and chain, but the engine was so smooth, very nice clean quiet bike, hardly used..., but due to circumstances I have to leave in a few months and with all this Covid19 malarkey and restrictions not a good time to buy a 2nd bike now... (also in BKK the new gen 2 of these sometimes comes up very cheap, so maybe not a good idea to buy old model - selling it on later won't be easy ... !).

 

I also tested an old 2013 Ninja 650, not that good condition, but the engine had no vibration really, so the Z650 I tested before was a lemon...! Although the engine still loud, and boy it got hot after 5min, it was already burning my leg on a long traffic light stop ...., is that due to exhaust being so close and under the bike...!? (it was a very hot day).

 

Interestingly the seating position was not so bad and too lean forward, I always thought Ninjas are sporty and need a lot of bending down , maybe this one had updated handlebar, not sure...

 

One thing I tested on both was put in 5th gear, go steady 40-50kph, then turn the throttle fully, kind of rolling on torque test..., and as expected CB500F didn't go anywhere, but Ninja 650 took off like a wild horse....! ????

 

I am hoping to rent for now, maybe there is a ER6n I can rent soon, and enjoy it without long term commitment for the time being, although there is nothing like getting your own bike, getting used to it, and modify a bit to suit...????

 

[VocalNeal]

21 hours ago, Agusts said:

One thing I tested on both was put in 5th gear, go steady 40-50kph, then turn the throttle fully, kind of rolling on torque test..., and as expected CB500F didn't go anywhere, but Ninja 650 took off like a wild horse....!

 

At 50 kph in 5th my bike is well off the curve. Isn't that why bikes have a gearbox? 50 kph needs at least 3rd gear. But yes Ninja 650 has at least 50% more torque than the CB500.

[Agusts]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

 

At 50 kph in 5th my bike is well off the curve. Isn't that why bikes have a gearbox? 50 kph needs at least 3rd gear. But yes Ninja 650 has at least 50% more torque than the CB500.

 

Yes, of course, need lower gear for normal riding..., but I have seen that's what they do on test reviews to find torque power and differences on various bikes...

 

Honda is usually good with their road bike engines in this regard as they tune for good low-end torque and not very high rpm design , their 500cc and 700/750cc twins etc. ...

 

Incidentally I saw they did a similar torque test on their new single 350 Highness, it almost stalled...!, but that has a very low torque and power for the size of the bike...

 

[guzzi850m2]

11 hours ago, Agusts said:

 

Yes, of course, need lower gear for normal riding..., but I have seen that's what they do on test reviews to find torque power and differences on various bikes...

 

Honda is usually good with their road bike engines in this regard as they tune for good low-end torque and not very high rpm design , their 500cc and 700/750cc twins etc. ...

 

Incidentally I saw they did a similar torque test on their new single 350 Highness, it almost stalled...!, but that has a very low torque and power for the size of the bike...

 

That new Honda 350 lowness is a bloody joke, 21hp!!!!! The new Forza350 can run in circles around it.

 

The old CB350 (made 1968 to 1973) had 36hp, okay a twin but still, <deleted>!

[Agusts]

33 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

That new Honda 350 lowness is a bloody joke, 21hp!!!!! The new Forza350 can run in circles around it.

 

The old CB350 (made 1968 to 1973) had 36hp, okay a twin but still, <deleted>!

 

My old model Forza 300 can even do better than that, mine gives 25HP...!

 

Not sure how Honda ended up with 21HP out of a 350cc engine, but it looks like they are targeting Indian market, the number one and most important thing Indian riders first look at is gas consumption, this Highness apparently can go around India , twice, with one tank full....! ????????

 

[eisfeld]

It's what you get with an engine tuned for down low torque only. Max torque is at 3000 RPM! That's very low. It's not an engine I'd like to own but I guess for the Indian market it can make sense. One has to view it like a cruiser engine - just a <deleted>ty version haha. It's actually pretty much the same cc to max torque ratio as you'd find in a Harley.

 

The step up from the Honda 500 range to 650 as you found is quite significant. The CB650R has pretty much double the power of a CB500F! I'd count the 500s as a beginner range. Very docile. Also very dependable. I have mine now since 2013 I think? Never a single issue and fires right up. And also with the 50HP I can have some good fun.

[guzzi850m2]

21 hours ago, eisfeld said:

It's what you get with an engine tuned for down low torque only. Max torque is at 3000 RPM! That's very low. It's not an engine I'd like to own but I guess for the Indian market it can make sense. One has to view it like a cruiser engine - just a <deleted>ty version haha. It's actually pretty much the same cc to max torque ratio as you'd find in a Harley.

 

The step up from the Honda 500 range to 650 as you found is quite significant. The CB650R has pretty much double the power of a CB500F! I'd count the 500s as a beginner range. Very docile. Also very dependable. I have mine now since 2013 I think? Never a single issue and fires right up. And also with the 50HP I can have some good fun.

I get that, so it must be targeting the Indian market only.

They should make another version with 30-35hp, could be fun.

 

Some people are happy with less than 50hp and if you live in an area with a lot of twisties I fully understand. A good rider on a small bike can easily embarrass a not so skilled rider on a much more powerful bike in the mountains where skill is more important than raw power.