Last years failed sugar cane

[Speedo1968]

Could someone please explain to me why fields of last years failed harvest in many cases was not ploughed in and, a new sugar or alternative crop planted ?
Although I have a farming background from the early 60's onwards it was not in cane production.
Thanks.

[kickstart]

7 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Could someone please explain to me why fields of last years failed harvest in many cases was not ploughed in and, a new sugar or alternative crop planted ?
Although I have a farming background from the early 60's onwards it was not in cane production.
Thanks.

Normal cane is a 3-year crop , before it is ploughed  in  some growers can get 4 years ,why was it not ploughed in ?because it will grow again ,this year's crop was not looking good ,but some late rains kept it going.

Crop at the end of our  Soi last year was only 4 foot high when it was harvested,  did about 2 ton /rie , just about covered  harvest costs ,which last year was 350baht/ton for a  machine to cut and transport  to the mill .so far  this year the same  crop  looks well. 

Saying around here ,first year's crop you are paying for the planting  cost not cheap, second year you break even ,third year you should make a profit .

I was tod a few years ago it costs 50 000 baht to plant a 25 rie field with cane , smaller farmers will buy in their  root stock, it would be a lot less if you have your own root stock.

So you can see if it fails on the first  year ,you are not going to plough it up ,and most probably the second year to . 

[Speedo1968]

11 hours ago, kickstart said:

Normal cane is a 3-year crop , before it is ploughed  in  some growers can get 4 years ,why was it not ploughed in ?because it will grow again ,this year's crop was not looking good ,but some late rains kept it going.

Crop at the end of our  Soi last year was only 4 foot high when it was harvested,  did about 2 ton /rie , just about covered  harvest costs ,which last year was 350baht/ton for a  machine to cut and transport  to the mill .so far  this year the same  crop  looks well. 

Saying around here ,first year's crop you are paying for the planting  cost not cheap, second year you break even ,third year you should make a profit .

I was tod a few years ago it costs 50 000 baht to plant a 25 rie field with cane , smaller farmers will buy in their  root stock, it would be a lot less if you have your own root stock.

So you can see if it fails on the first  year ,you are not going to plough it up ,and most probably the second year to . 

Many thanks for your info.
I am not in farming anymore having retired some years ago after 50 years but like to try and keep in-touch.   I started work in farming when I was 15 in early 60's.  Had my own small mixed farm in South America back in 70's: disputes with Brazil caused feed and oil shortages so only the major companies could survive.   Later went on to work in Holland and Saudi then consultancy work in different countries including Thailand.

 

I live south of Khon Kaen and noticed through out this year that many cane crops from previous plantings looked very poor as if diseased or poor quality cuttings had been used, weather too perhaps.     Whole fields were not harvested ( guess too expensive ) and many still not cleared but cane planted in adjoining fields for this season look really good, tall and excellent colour.

A question - if the crop is not worth harvesting and not burnt ( perhaps too green ) why not plough in when it was obvious that it is of no value then or in the following year ?    Would it be possible to plant afresh ?

I had heard that the sugar price was going to be good this year and from what I see of most fields the cane looks very good, obviously some already harvested, even new crops being put down.

 

In the part of South America I lived in in the 70's people with smaller farms used inter-cropping where two different crops e.g. yellow cassava and bean were planted in the same row, so that if one failed you would normally have the other to sell.  ( People today would see this as a waste of space but if done well little planting space is lost.    I also had chicken, salad vegetables and wild honey to take to market, only hassle was when city borders were closed during the day during the "stand-off with Brazil" so one could not leave the city until 5pm.   Had a plentiful supply of spring / well water which I also sold locally and eventually a small shop. 

 

[kickstart]

Thai's have a habit of planting crops on land that is not suitable for that crop ,cane is a prim example ,we have crops of cane .one mainly light  land that do not grow ,just not cane land .

I would say it would be the case where you are ,also in Issan you have had mono -culture of rice ,rice being a cereal crop takes from the soil ,puts nothing back ,unlike a legume crop, cane is even worse ,takes all the nutrients  from the soil ,I would say the poor crops near you have just run out of nutrients and could well have mineral  deficiency

I think Farmejo used to  grow cane ,he said getting some fertility back in to the soil after the cane crop was one of his biggest headaches.

Why not plough it up .like I said in my last post to set up costs being  high  most farmers think it will pick up the following year,

Cane prices look good this year around here 900-1000 baht/ton ,a lot depends  on sugar continent.     

[Speedo1968]

14 hours ago, kickstart said:

Thai's have a habit of planting crops on land that is not suitable for that crop ,cane is a prim example ,we have crops of cane .one mainly light  land that do not grow ,just not cane land .

I would say it would be the case where you are ,also in Issan you have had mono -culture of rice ,rice being a cereal crop takes from the soil ,puts nothing back ,unlike a legume crop, cane is even worse ,takes all the nutrients  from the soil ,I would say the poor crops near you have just run out of nutrients and could well have mineral  deficiency

I think Farmejo used to  grow cane ,he said getting some fertility back in to the soil after the cane crop was one of his biggest headaches.

Why not plough it up .like I said in my last post to set up costs being  high  most farmers think it will pick up the following year,

Cane prices look good this year around here 900-1000 baht/ton ,a lot depends  on sugar continent.     

Thanks for your comments.
I thought cane and cassava were rotated on a yearly basis to help replemish whatever was taken out ?
Would it be possible on suitable soils to use a triple crop rotation with corn, cassava and cane sugar ?

There is a very good FAO report of the late 1990's that showed land use options / ideas.

Where I farmed in South America most people in the area farmed cotton, it was on a hillside and often rocky, no one had tried cassava ( sweet ) or beans, certainly not salad vegetables even if they had water.      

 

[kickstart]

8 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Would it be possible on suitable soils to use a triple crop rotation with corn, cassava and cane sugar ?

Funny  you should ask  that ,over the past 3-4 years cane crops have not been good ,drought being  the main factor ,and a low price for the cane crop ,so a lot of cane growers are now growing cassava ,they have all the machinery ,a lot of crops are being planted now with a drip irrigation system installed .

Most crops do ok with cassava being a restorative crop it does put something back in to the land ,but not as much as  a legume crop .

But ,a lot of farmers are growing cassava for a number of successive years ,makes you wonder if they will be a disease build up ?I was told many years ago a root crop should only be grown 1 year in 3 .

As for maize ,that was a mono crop on some land ,but the fall army worm has made a mess of a lot of crops and the cost of spraying has eaten in to the profit margin .

For Thailand a fair rotation would be cane 3 years, cassava  one year , then maize ,and as a second crop  in the year mung beans ,and back to cane .

But ,Thai farmers  seem to look at the price they get for the crop more than a crop rotation ,and can they aford the growing costs of cane and cassava ,especially if the land is rented,a lot of farmers can only afford to grow maize ,and this year as a second crop sunflowers are very popular ,an easy crop to grow, direct dill the seed in to the past maize crop ,shut the field gate and open it for the combine ,job done ,but with sunflower seed at 5-600 baht/kg  a big inishail investment .

[Speedo1968]

11 hours ago, kickstart said:

Funny  you should ask  that ,over the past 3-4 years cane crops have not been good ,drought being  the main factor ,and a low price for the cane crop ,so a lot of cane growers are now growing cassava ,they have all the machinery ,a lot of crops are being planted now with a drip irrigation system installed .

Most crops do ok with cassava being a restorative crop it does put something back in to the land ,but not as much as  a legume crop .

But ,a lot of farmers are growing cassava for a number of successive years ,makes you wonder if they will be a disease build up ?I was told many years ago a root crop should only be grown 1 year in 3 .

As for maize ,that was a mono crop on some land ,but the fall army worm has made a mess of a lot of crops and the cost of spraying has eaten in to the profit margin .

For Thailand a fair rotation would be cane 3 years, cassava  one year , then maize ,and as a second crop  in the year mung beans ,and back to cane .

But ,Thai farmers  seem to look at the price they get for the crop more than a crop rotation ,and can they aford the growing costs of cane and cassava ,especially if the land is rented,a lot of farmers can only afford to grow maize ,and this year as a second crop sunflowers are very popular ,an easy crop to grow, direct dill the seed in to the past maize crop ,shut the field gate and open it for the combine ,job done ,but with sunflower seed at 5-600 baht/kg  a big inishail investment .

Thanks again for your comments, found it very interesting

[farmerjo]

With sugar being a ratoon crop you have to weigh up a bad season.

From planting till season 3 you should see an increase in chutes each year so yield will get better if seasonal conditions are right.

So if you have a poor crop one year it doesn't nessacarily mean it will be worse the following year.

I have in the past used paraquat to increase yield but that is no longer available.

One of the major problems of poor yields you see is not changing varieties and age of the new ratoons planted..

It's recommended that new plantings should be 2nd season cane cut at 9 months but most will just use what they can get.

To make it cost effective you should split your land plantings over a 4 year period  so you have fresh sugar to plant however most farms are small  so generally the whole area is planted at one time then you suffer with cash flow to maintain it.

I have noticed over the years in this area if you have a contract with a company they send out reps to make sure you are looking after it so the money borrowed for fertilizer etc can be repayed at harvest time.

Generally if you can't average 12 ton/rai or more as KS said you probably growing on the wrong soil type with lack of irrigation.