Amount of paper copies while conducting business

[Saraburi121]

I find it amazing the amount of paper copies of documents used in transactions in Thailand whether it be immigration, banks or signing up for internet service.  Also find it amazing the lack of paper copies when it is needed such as receipts for transactions.  

 

Yesterday I went to K-Bank to get a Bank Drafts/Bill of Exchange to send with my passport renewal.  I needed 3 bank drafts and the lady worked on them dilligently for over 30 minutes.  Each bank draft took a signed copy of my passport, multiple bank forms and approvals from supervisors.  Visa extensions burn through reams of paper. Sometimes I wonder if immigration has stock in paper and copier companies? The dry cleaner never gives me a receipt but I have never had a missing item.  Sometimes you have to demand a receipt for hotel deposits etc. Most folks here are honest but honest mistakes happen. 

 

Where do all these copies get filed or do they get scanned into the computer? If they get filed no way they get filed correctly, imagine all the TM6's.   Technology I would think could lessen the tree killing and improve efficiency. Maybe it just creates/keeps jobs? 

[CharlieH]

What I always find odd is the copies needed if you attend an imm8gration office, but if you do it online they dont need anything copied ?.they dont even want to see it, just enter the details and done.Doesnt make sense to me.

 

On another occasion, 88 pages 176 signatures ! Unbelievable.

 

[Kwasaki]

11 hours ago, Saraburi121 said:

I find it amazing the amount of paper copies of documents used in transactions in Thailand whether it be immigration, banks or signing up for internet service.

One of the first things observed when living in Thailand.

Buying car/truck is the same if paying on the knock.

Retirement was relevantly simple at immigration but changing to marriage was contributing to the destruction of a rain forest.

Over 14 years the copy paperwork for marriage extension needing copies in duplicate as well has tripled also moving the goal posts so to speak year on year.

[Cake Monster]

Everything done in Business is done in the Thai fashion of Ruthless Inefficiency

[CharlieH]

3 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

Everything done in Business is done in the Thai fashion of Ruthless Inefficiency

Usually coupled with total inconsistency, thats the part that is so frustrating.

[Bender Rodriguez]

online inscription in government school = paperless

 

immigration extension ... well, you know...

[Bob12345]

At Phuket immigration you could get a look at the paperwork in the past on the ground floor as they stored the immigration cards from the airport there (tm6 or tm9 or whatever). There were several cubical meters of these slips all bundled up and in beautiful piles. Easily over a million of those things... all with unreadable handwriting and possibly bundled without a clear system.

 

Luckily they will never need those slips anymore otherwise someone might spends days going through the piles to find one back.

[ronaldo0]

The bigger more mind boggling thing is where do they store it all as this planet just isn’t big enough !!

I did hear rumours that the dark side of the moon was a temp storage area as they shift it to Mars !

[Davedub]

Thai bureaucratic systems love paper. The more the better. With lot of official looking stamps, even better. The only way I've managed to not let it get to me over my 12 years here is to invest in a good laser printer / scanner, a huge stock of toner cartridges and "play the game":

 

      "You want paper? I can make paper! Here, lots of paper - with lots of lovely stamps and blue ink signatures on it too!"

 

Unintuitively, I find in some situations, actually turning up with more paper than is needed often gets things done quicker - it's almost like there is such a love for collecting the stuff that you are spreading happiness by giving extra.

 

I've had three companies since being here and a variety of visas. One company had to be shut down because there were too many errors made by lawyers and accountants during a change of registered province - even local professionals get befuddled by the sheer volume and shifting demands of the bureaucratic machine. In the end it was simply easier to shut down the company (lots more paper!) and start another. One of my companies has BOI approval. That took me 18 months and more paper than I'm sure I could even carry. As an IT business I am trying to compete on in global market, which means I am at a significant disadvantage due to the bureaucratic burden, but it's my choice to be here, so I can't complain.

 

It is what it is - I love this country and am willing to accept these strange (if often frustrating, pointless, expensive and timewasting) quirks as part of the Thai experience. I have found that taking a light hearted approach with a pinch of resignation is the best way to deal with it.

 

[BusyB]

In a capricious, arbitrary, feudalistic society paper is like a comfort blanket - something to hold onto ...

[Bangkok Barry]

4 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Usually coupled with total inconsistency, thats the part that is so frustrating.

That is probably because no-one really knows what the rules are, so they do what they think is right. I don't think job training exists in Thailand. Here's a desk/hammer/screwdriver etc, now get on with it. It would help to explain the low standards here. When there is proper training the Thais can do some fantastic work - many of their buildings are world-class, for example - but there are far too many people who are unqualified for what they do. Actual training, both for the employer and the trainee, is too much like hard work.

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, ronaldo0 said:

The bigger more mind boggling thing is where do they store it all as this planet just isn’t big enough !!

I did hear rumours that the dark side of the moon was a temp storage area as they shift it to Mars !

 

So that's why Thailand is planning to fly to the moon. Now it makes sense.

[Bangkok Barry]

I needed to get a new ATM card, and because I had changed to a new passport since I received my previous one it took and hour and needed 16 signatures. That was just mine. The bank official had to add a few more.

[Curmudgeonly59]

Premodern society. Paper and pens are still novelties.

[Stevemercer]

5 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

At Phuket immigration you could get a look at the paperwork in the past on the ground floor as they stored the immigration cards from the airport there (tm6 or tm9 or whatever). There were several cubical meters of these slips all bundled up and in beautiful piles. Easily over a million of those things... all with unreadable handwriting and possibly bundled without a clear system.

 

Luckily they will never need those slips anymore otherwise someone might spends days going through the piles to find one back.

 

No doubt they expect one day to hire some poor graduate to organise, scan and digitise all those immigration cards. No one is willing to authorise just junking (or recycling) the lot.

[Bradmeister]

Save the Trees!

 

GO Green Government!

 

Who will start the campaign?

 

I'll sign up, and donate!

 

Any volunteers? 

[loong]

What amazes me in Khon Kaen immigration is that they hand write the receipt for your extension, re-entry etc. There is the old fashioned blue carbon paper that makes a copy. They then hand you the receipt and tell you to go out and get it copied and give them the copy!

Maybe that's just an excuse to get you to pay the 5 baht for the copy.

Mind you, at least nowadays we don't need all the copies for the 90 day report. ( I take copies just in case though.)

[foreverlomsak]

Everybody is missing the point here.

Computers are for storing things not for actual use (90 day and TM30 excepted)

While you can wave a bunch of papers below the bosses nose, or the auditors for that matter, you can't do the same with a computer record.

[foreverlomsak]

22 minutes ago, loong said:

What amazes me in Khon Kaen immigration is that they hand write the receipt for your extension, re-entry etc. There is the old fashioned blue carbon paper that makes a copy. They then hand you the receipt and tell you to go out and get it copied and give them the copy!

Never in 6 Immigration Offices (over 15 years) have I been asked to do that, not sure what they need it for as the receipt number is part of the information included in on the approval stamp added to your TM7.

[khunPer]

22 hours ago, CharlieH said:

What I always find odd is the copies needed if you attend an imm8gration office, but if you do it online they dont need anything copied ?.they dont even want to see it, just enter the details and done.Doesnt make sense to me.

There is so much that doesn't make sense for an alien in Thailand...????

Probably because Thailand was never colonized and kept much of their own administration, instead of being forced to British, Dutch, or French way-of-thinking...????

[khunPer]

22 hours ago, Saraburi121 said:

Where do all these copies get filed or do they get scanned into the computer?

I've been looking for the huge file-warehouse behind the local immigration office, so far I havn't found it...????

[meechai]

On 1/5/2021 at 6:39 AM, Saraburi121 said:

Where do all these copies get filed or do they get scanned into the computer?

 

I know in Chiang Mai Immigration where they go........... At some point they get cut into small squares & the clear back side gets used as scrap paper

 

I have been given notes by Chiang Mai Imm officers that when I flip them over I see a Japanese mans passport photos as well as some info

Other times I have had other parts of someones visa forms etc.

 

So much for protecting your info eh?

 

[brianthainess]

11 hours ago, Bradmeister said:

Save the Trees!

 

GO Green Government!

 

Who will start the campaign?

 

I'll sign up, and donate!

 

Any volunteers? 

Not me, to much paperwork involved to become a volunteer. 

[joebrown]

I can't possibly imagine the number of copies of my passport Bangkok Bank are holding (or have destroyed). It's so annoying that they took a copy when I opened the account 3 years ago. Surely they have a scanned copy on their computer by now. Why is it I can withdraw 20,000bht at an ATM with only my card, yet it isn't sufficient on it's own to obtain a statement? Prayut talks so proudly of Thailand 4.0, when in fact it's yet to achieve 2.0 !

[ecoscape]

15 hours ago, BusyB said:

In a capricious, arbitrary, feudalistic society paper is like a comfort blanket - something to hold onto ...

Please be fair. They saw Covid coming and were stocking up on paper in case they were caught short

[ecoscape]

11 hours ago, khunPer said:

I've been looking for the huge file-warehouse behind the local immigration office, so far I havn't found it...????

Recycled to make toilet paper