1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

You, You, You? To whom are you referring. I have never indicated how I voted on any referendum.

 

I have, many times, stated that I don't mind if Scotland become independent.

 

What I do mind is the constant blame on everyone except the Scottish electorate.

 

So you dont support Brexit then? If I go back and look at your posting history I wont find any posts supporting it or indeed supporting others who did vote for it?

Are you sure now?

9 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No, it hasn't. It is exactly the same according to the Nationalists here. In 2014 you wanted to be independent from the UK and a member of the EU. The vote went against that idea. Simple.

In 2014, I wanted to remain part of the UK and in the EU.  Being in both is no longer an option.  How hard a concept is that for you to understand?

 

PH

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

You should probably have a word with the people at energy-reporters.com then because clearly they could do with your superior insight..

 

The interconnector will allow energy to be shared between Scotland and Norway, meaning hydropower from Norway can be transferred to Scotland when renewable sources such as wind power cannot meet demand, and vice versa for periods where Norwegian sources are struggling. This ensures security of supply whilst using renewable sources which helps meet the aims and targets.

https://www.energy-reporters.com/transmission/scotland-norway-undersea-cable-approved/

Norway puts subsea renewables link to Scotland on hold

Oslo government waits for evidence of benefits before approving NorthConnect project backed by Scottish Government

But Norway's minister of petroleum and energy Tina Bru has now said her government would wait to find out how similar projects linking to the north-east of England and Germany worked out before giving the Scottish project approval.

https://www.insider.co.uk/news/norway-puts-subsea-renewables-link-21779783

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Norway puts subsea renewables link to Scotland on hold

Oslo government waits for evidence of benefits before approving NorthConnect project backed by Scottish Government

But Norway's minister of petroleum and energy Tina Bru has now said her government would wait to find out how similar projects linking to the north-east of England and Germany worked out before giving the Scottish project approval.

https://www.insider.co.uk/news/norway-puts-subsea-renewables-link-21779783

 

My point was that the technology and the ability exists to meet foreign demand. The suggestion was that we were, somehow, isolated from the world and that our only option was to export electricity to England. As has been shown, there is no such limitation if the will is there.

 

Of course, the continued focus on renewables will only make Scottish energy more attractive as other countries switch off their polluting forms of power generation and seek cleaner alternatives. 

 

Scotland's new target: 100% renewable electricity in 2020

As we work to fight the climate crisis, one of the most important things we can do is continue shifting towards renewable energy. And while some countries may be struggling to make that shift, Scotland is excelling. So far this year, Scotland's wind turbines have produced almost double the amount of wind energy needed to power every household in Scotland, according to WWF.

21 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Scotland exports electricity to England.

After independence we might just sell it to someone else.

All those plucky Brexiteers sitting in the candlelight reminiscing about how this is just what it was like during the blitz ???? 

As the rest of the UK will get additional electricity from Norway via North Sea Link Scotland's electricity may not be required

https://www.nationalgrid.com/our-businesses/national-grid-ventures/interconnectors-connecting-cleaner-future/north-sea-link

 

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

As the rest of the UK will get additional electricity from Norway via North Sea Link Scotland's electricity may not be required

https://www.nationalgrid.com/our-businesses/national-grid-ventures/interconnectors-connecting-cleaner-future/north-sea-link

 

 

But the fact is you will have to buy it from somewhere.

Not the colossus striding the globe after all eh?

Reliant on other countries just to keep the lights on.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.  

32 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

In 2014, I wanted to remain part of the UK and in the EU.  Being in both is no longer an option.  How hard a concept is that for you to understand?

 

PH

The point I am making is that it was said that being part of the EU is why the Scottish voters voted remain. Yet, it would not have been that difficult for the SNP to have campaigned for leaving UK and joining EU as an independent country. Or maybe they did and still got a "NO" vote.

39 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So you dont support Brexit then? If I go back and look at your posting history I wont find any posts supporting it or indeed supporting others who did vote for it?

Are you sure now?

Go ahead. Have a look. Find the post where I said how I voted.

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

But the fact is you will have to buy it from somewhere.

Not the colossus striding the globe after all eh?

Reliant on other countries just to keep the lights on.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.  

Quite Normal for countries to import from other countries, Germany doesn't have any issues buying gas from Russia via  

Nord Stream 2 Or is that a policy that Scotland would veto if it joins the EU

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

The point I am making is that it was said that being part of the EU is why the Scottish voters voted remain. Yet, it would not have been that difficult for the SNP to have campaigned for leaving UK and joining EU as an independent country. Or maybe they did and still got a "NO" vote.

I see you argue from a position of relative lack of knowledge on what was discussed, and how deeply or often in the lead up to 2014.

 

Despite many "promises" fromthe SNP, there was no guarantee at all that if Scotland had voted for independence, the Country would have been able to remain, or quickly join, the EU.  That was a major part of my own personal reason for voting against independence.  It was also a view shared to varying degrees by many others.  Some I know, having seen Scotland now leave the EU, have definitely changed their opinion as to which way they would vote.  Others are undecided - if I still lived in Sctoland I would be one.

 

If the 2014 referendum had been run in the knowledge that Scotland would definitely leave the EU if it stayed inthe UK, then it is not unreasonable to conclude that the vote could well have been decisively in favour of independence.

 

Posters could also note that being in favour of independence does not make one a member or supporter of the SNP.  I know some who want independence but loath the SNP leaders.

 

PH

12 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

But the fact is you will have to buy it from somewhere.

Not the colossus striding the globe after all eh?

Reliant on other countries just to keep the lights on.

Oh how the mighty have fallen.  

Oh come on, we have been buying energy from other countries for donkeys years. 

 

However much Scotland may lick their chops at the prospect of  being the principal supplier of energy to England, remember also that we (England) can buy from a variety of other sources.

 

You may wish to consider that if Scotland tries to apply punitive charges for selling electricity and other commodities to England and Wales, then we are free to go elsewhere. Do you really think that the French and the Norwegians, for example, would turn down cash on the table out of solidarity with the "oppressed Scots"? Of course they wouldn't.

 

A second consideration is of course that, if an independent Scotland were to try pulling such stunts, who, as it stands at present, will control their currency?

13 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Go ahead. Have a look. Find the post where I said how I voted.

 

I dont know how you voted I can only go by what you post on here and seem to support.

16 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Quite Normal for countries to import from other countries, Germany doesn't have any issues buying gas from Russia via  

Nord Stream 2 Or is that a policy that Scotland would veto if it joins the EU

 

Your point makes absolutely no sense. There is an international market for energy. The suggestion was that we would be reliant upon lumpen technologies rather than developing infrastructure that already exists. As a country we have plentiful cheap, clean energy available to supply that market. 

 

I appreciate that this flies in the face of the 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' narrative that so many people try to paint for us, but the reality dispels this myth. 

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Quite Normal for countries to import from other countries, Germany doesn't have any issues buying gas from Russia via  

Nord Stream 2 Or is that a policy that Scotland would veto if it joins the EU

 

Quite normal indeed.

11 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Oh come on, we have been buying energy from other countries for donkeys years. 

 

However much Scotland may lick their chops at the prospect of  being the principal supplier of energy to England, remember also that we (England) can buy from a variety of other sources.

 

You may wish to consider that if Scotland tries to apply punitive charges for selling electricity and other commodities to England and Wales, then we are free to go elsewhere. Do you really think that the French and the Norwegians, for example, would turn down cash on the table out of solidarity with the "oppressed Scots"? Of course they wouldn't.

 

A second consideration is of course that, if an independent Scotland were to try pulling such stunts, who, as it stands at present, will control their currency?

 

Fact is you have to buy it from someone.

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

 

I dont know how you voted I can only go by what you post on here and seem to support.

So you are not going to trawl through my posts?

 

Giving up easy on that one then.

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

So you are not going to trawl through my posts?

 

Giving up easy on that one then.

 

Tell you what we can sort this out in a jiffy.

Do you think Brexit is a stupid idea?

Yes or no?

Just now, Rookiescot said:

 

Tell you what we can sort this out in a jiffy.

Do you think Brexit is a stupid idea?

Yes or no?

Not "stupid", no.

 

To call it "stupid" would belittle millions of people whom I have never met. Unlike many remainers, that is not something I would wish to do.

Just now, youreavinalaff said:

Not "stupid", no.

 

To call it "stupid" would belittle millions of people whom I have never met. Unlike many remainers, that is not something I would wish to do.

 

So I was right then.

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So I was right then.

Right about what? 

 

I simply pointed out I don't wish to insult people who may or may not have a different opinion to me.

 

"Stupid" would be someone who does.

8 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Right about what? 

 

I simply pointed out I don't wish to insult people who may or may not have a different opinion to me.

 

"Stupid" would be someone who does.

 

I didnt insult anyone.

I asked you if you think Brexit is a stupid idea.

You are dancing on the head of a pin and trying to imply I called Brexiteers stupid. I did not.

 

17 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Incorrect. England did not have a vote. UK voted to leave the EU. 

With 84.3% of the UK population, the UK does what England wants. End of story.

12 minutes ago, sandyf said:

With 84.3% of the UK population, the UK does what England wants. End of story.

if the 1,018,322 people in Scotland hadn't vote leave and 349,442 people in Northern Ireland hadn't vote leave

then the UK would have remained part of the EU  even though the majority of people that voted in England voted to Leave

 

18 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

There are strong hints on twitter this morning, from people in the know, that something major is about to happen. My feeling is that Salmond is going to return to the front again, this time leading a List Only party. If that happens then it will be a massive win for independence - it will have only marginal effect on the SNP, who have very few list MSPs, but will destroy the unionist  bloc, which mostly consists of list MSPs. 

I hope that doesn't come to pass. Alex Salmond is not fit to be in front line Scottish politics. Apart from the current damage he is inflicting on Scotland, did you read his white paper, more holes than a bar of Aero.

Unlike brexit, independence needs to be based on a realistic plan on how to move forward, rather than delusional concepts.

You always here give me one benefit of Brexit. Numerous ones are given but the fact that the UK can make their own way in the world is classically been shown with the COVID 19 vaccine.

 

Which country in the EU is anywhere near the number  of vaccinated people in the UK. Nobody is even close, so all those thousand of lives been saved by not being in the EU, is just another great outcome of Brexit.

12 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

You fail to understand a fundamental issue here.

 

UK was the member of the EU that voted to leave. England and Scotland, even N Ireland and Wales had no say. The UK voted as a whole nation.

Always what suits the English, there are no member nations of the so called union, only devolved regions of England.

Whatever people want to think, the fundamental flaws are not going to go away.

20 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

if the 1,018,322 people in Scotland hadn't vote leave and 349,442 people in Northern Ireland hadn't vote leave

then the UK would have remained part of the EU  even though the majority of people that voted in England voted to Leave

 

Delusional concept, there will always be a difference of opinion.

When 85% of a sample is from the same source, the outcome is effectively predetermined, the English vote to leave was 53.38%.

The devolved nations were nothing more than a propaganda exercise.

38 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You always here give me one benefit of Brexit. Numerous ones are given but the fact that the UK can make their own way in the world is classically been shown with the COVID 19 vaccine.

 

Which country in the EU is anywhere near the number  of vaccinated people in the UK. Nobody is even close, so all those thousand of lives been saved by not being in the EU, is just another great outcome of Brexit.

On the other hand if the UK had acted more responsibly there wouldn't have been a significant loss of life and the desperation for the vaccine in the first place.

Every gambler gets a win now and again, it is what keeps them going.

39 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You always here give me one benefit of Brexit. Numerous ones are given but the fact that the UK can make their own way in the world is classically been shown with the COVID 19 vaccine.

 

Which country in the EU is anywhere near the number  of vaccinated people in the UK. Nobody is even close, so all those thousand of lives been saved by not being in the EU, is just another great outcome of Brexit.

 

Unfortunately our government chose one of the most disastrous routes to vaccination. How many thousands of lives might not have been lost if we had a competent, credible government led by a competent, credible Prime Minister?

 

It is massively important that we do not lose sight of the reality of their utter intransigence and incompetence while we all cheer the vaccination program. There must be a thorough public enquiry into the calamitous failings of Johnson and his corrupt cabinet and they must be held fully to account for each one of those people who have died because they failed in their duty.

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Delusional concept, there will always be a difference of opinion.

When 85% of a sample is from the same source, the outcome is effectively predetermined, the English vote to leave was 53.38%.

The devolved nations were nothing more than a propaganda exercise.

So are you saying if the total % number of votes in the EU referendum was 52% remain 48% leave the UK would have left the EU because the majority of English votes were for leave

47 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I hope that doesn't come to pass. Alex Salmond is not fit to be in front line Scottish politics. Apart from the current damage he is inflicting on Scotland, did you read his white paper, more holes than a bar of Aero.

Unlike brexit, independence needs to be based on a realistic plan on how to move forward, rather than delusional concepts.

 

I have never much cared for the man - he is, like Blackford, all bluster and puffed chest, albeit with more charisma. But he has a significant fan base, and numbers are what counts. 

 

I agree with you though, that lessons need to be learned from 2014, and I definitely don't want to go to indyref2 clutching the sort of lies and empty rhetoric that won Brexit. Fool me once, shame on you, as they say. 

 

I trust the SNP to deliver on the 'how' questions - there are some very credible characters within it, such as Mike Russell, who's reasoned arguments seem to appeal to a broad spectrum of people. That he is standing down in May is a loss to the Scottish Government and the Scotland overall, but I understand that he will still play a very active role in the SNP as a senior advisor. 

 

What Salmond could do is draw significant numbers of list votes away from the SNP, which is a good thing. Their success in the regional count negatively impacts their results in the constituency counts, so if there was a sure fire independence option, it may see us get rid of the likes of Annie Wells, the Tory MSP who is living in the taxpayers' pocket despite getting only 8% of the vote at the last election. Or Murdo Fraser, another Nasty Party leech who has been in Holyrood for what seems like forever but never having actually won an election. 

 

If a credible List only independence party can emerge and remove these people from office, that would be a much better outcome than what we have now.