What Is It With Agents?

[ThaiPauly]

I have a condo in BK that I am thinking of selling

I am asking a fair price, people that I have had dealings with say its fair.

However I have now contacted 3 at different intervals over the last few months and they just NEVER come back to me.

I have to e-mail them to ask if they have received my e-mails????

The last one said he wold respond to my e-mail after the weekend...I have heard nothing more.

I was under the impresson that agents were having a hard time right now and would bite your hand off to get a new property on their books which will make them 90k when they sell it!

Most of these companies seem to be owned by Westerners, maybee they just sell stuff as a hobby as they don't appear to want the money.

Has anyone else experinced the same kind of problems?

[erikr_]

might be they are holding back due to the uncertainty with the laws. In the end if they are not in Thailand they might be liable if they misrepresent

Have you considered selling it yourself?

[ThaiPauly]

Thanx for the reply Eric,

Condos should be no problem, Foreigners can still own them 100%

I definatley would sell it myself...but its difficult as my primary home is Chaing Mai so it would be difficult as we have business interests here to make trips down to show any interested parties around

[Prakanong]

I have a condo in BK that I am thinking of selling

I am asking a fair price, people that I have had dealings with say its fair.

However I have now contacted 3 at different intervals over the last few months and they just NEVER come back to me.

I have to e-mail them to ask if they have received my e-mails????

The last one said he wold respond to my e-mail after the weekend...I have heard nothing more.

I was under the impresson that agents were having a hard time right now and would bite your hand off to get a new property on their books which will make them 90k when they sell it!

Most of these companies seem to be owned by Westerners, maybee they just sell stuff as a hobby as they don't appear to want the money.

Has anyone else experinced the same kind of problems?

Well you are going to have two views here from the rosey tinted guys and the other from the doomsayers ;-))

Rosey - the market is booming and agents are selling so much at the top end 20 milion + they are not interested in selling anything below

Doom - nothing is moving, agents books are full so they take nothing else on

You pays your money and takes your pick - sorry it does not help as I do not have a clue about the BKK property market.

[backflip]

thaipauly,

I had the same experience, as a buyer. When I first came to Thailand to buy a condo, 3 years ago, I had a difficult time trying to get an agent to show me units. One agent showed me two places, and insisted those were the only units available in BKK. Another agent, who advertised a unit for sale, refused to show me the unit...and he was a farang. Another farang, after a month of exchanging emails, refused to speak with me after I got to BKK. I guess he had something more important to do besides sell condos. I don't know which brokers you are using, but I finally found a condo through CBRE. I found them to have access to a large inventory of units, answered my questions quickly, negotiated with the seller - for several months - and were very professional.

[Mobi]

Hi Paul,

I met a friend of mine yesterday who has a large property for sale on Soi 31 Suk.

Beautifully fitted offices, parking, and a penthouse apartment. He put it out with an agent months ago, and has had not heard from them after taking the details.The property is owned through his legitimate company business.

You can't get much more prime than soi 31.

Sounds like things are slack.

PS he also advised me not to buy in BKK - there is a huge glut, and the market prices do not yet reflect this.(Unless it is is a 'distressed' knock down price)

[ThaiPauly]

You have all made some interesting points.

backflip...I never thought that agents would pass up the opportuny to make a fast buck, the agents I have contacted DO have property on their websites for around the 3m mark. I may well go to he cmpany you have mentioned-Thanks

Mobi (God I nearly called you by your name then)...I reckon you are right ..things are dead right now, but if things are dead you would think they would bite your arm off to make money...certainly not what I am used to back home, Agents will go to any lengths to get your property on their books.

TP

[quiksilva]

I am an agent (commercial and industrial mostly), I cant speak for other firms but we used to sell individual condo units here but we stopped doing so preferring to act only on behalf of developers in Bangkok, although we still do very nicely out of resales in Phuket.

I understand there is a huge amount of individual condo units on the market so there can be a really long sales period for individual units, so in a way Im not surprised that the resi brokers are not falling over themselves, but they should at least have the courtesy to state their policies to you upfront, at least thats what I do.

If I may be so bold as to offer some pointers on some steps you can take to maximise your unit's exposure and really stand out in the market.

1. Prepare a sales pack in soft format, with a description of the unit and high quality well lit photographs of each room (dont worry about bathrooms unless its REALLY special.

2. Send said pack to each and every agent you can identify, (who are the best ones? Well start by recommendations and then google "condos for sale in Thailand" and other such key search phrases will be the sites who get the expsoure you need. Advertise with them. They may have a highlight option to make your property standout, if so take it! You need to stand out in this market right now you have a lot of competitors.

3. Think about: classifieds: Bangkok Post, Nation, free ads, notices at Villa Tescos, Carrefoure, additional incentives to agents work well too (in Phuket commissions can be up to 6%)

4. The inspection: ensure the unit is kept clean, before an inspection make fresh coffee (cliche but it works!), use the aroma therapy oil thingies in the bath rooms (smells are important in the sales process the last thing you want is a dusty musty room). Have a hard and soft copy of your sales pack in hand. [edit: sorry just re-read and noticed that you are in CM - not applicable then really, but perhaps you could ask your condo manager to accompany inspections, provide them with the documents, some provide unit management its worth a shot]

5. Decoration ideas: contemporary looks that cater to the widest possible audience are popular, stick to white / cream wallpaper, buy one stand out piece of furniture or art that will stick in prospects minds.

Hope this helps and feel free to PM if you want my usual list of suspects who I refer resi business too.

Edited May 11, 2007 by quiksilva

[Swelters]

I am an agent (commercial and industrial mostly), I cant speak for other firms but we used to sell individual condo units here but we stopped doing so preferring to act only on behalf of developers in Bangkok, although we still do very nicely out of resales in Phuket.

...........................

Hope this helps and feel free to PM if you want my usual list of suspects who I refer resi business too.

This outline is a real service to those of us in the same position. Much appreciated, quicksilva.

Swelters

[quiksilva]

My pleasure, in fact when I get some more time I'll write up a better, more detailed guide.

[appleman_thai]

I am having a similar experience, although I am looking to rent and not sell for now.

Funnily enough I have had more people looking to buy the condo than to rent it (bargain hunters!!!!). My condo is in Bangkok.

Most of the agents will NOT even take on the rental. THese are the same companies that were falling over themselves a few years back.

Reality is that things ARE slow. Properties are not moving. THere are more people looking to sell and rent their places rather than people with money looking to buy and rent out a place.

I am hoping that this is just a temporary situation but I am hoping that I can rent it out soon enough!

Also,just came back from an International Property Show here in Ireland. I mentioned to a few of the agents about potential in Asia and they all said that it was a NO GO for them for now. Instead, they are focussing on Eastern Europe, South America, Caribbean and Africa.

[torrenova]

On the other side of the fence, I am in the market for a mid range house rental in East Pattaya. I'm getting crap way overpriced at the bottom end and crap way overpriced at the top end. The fact that houses are not selling due to the political uncertainty should benefit me but the reverse seems to be true.

Agents cannot be bothered to keep their websites up to date, they lie about getting back to me and I feel want cash for doing bugger all and are not prepared to get off their <deleted> to sort out some viewings.

Perhaps I'll open an egency which doesn;t screw people around and make a killing.

[ThaiPauly]

On the other side of the fence, I am in the market for a mid range house rental in East Pattaya. I'm getting crap way overpriced at the bottom end and crap way overpriced at the top end. The fact that houses are not selling due to the political uncertainty should benefit me but the reverse seems to be true.

Agents cannot be bothered to keep their websites up to date, they lie about getting back to me and I feel want cash for doing bugger all and are not prepared to get off their <deleted> to sort out some viewings.

Perhaps I'll open an egency which doesn;t screw people around and make a killing.

Why don't you?

The silence from this particular forums sponsers is deafening

[ProThaiExpat]

Being a licensed Real Estate Broker, among other things from the U.S., I can vouch for the advice given by quicksilva, truly professional.

We used to turn on the oven with vanilla in a shallow dish to create a "just baked cookies" aroma in kitchens. Coffee and cookies or donuts on display is a great idea. Anything that offers instant gratification and a warm fuzzy feeling in the potential buyer.

We turned on every light before the potential buyers showed up and encouraged owners not to show their own homes. Owners talk about all the wrong things and feel they have to keep talking to a buyer like a salesman while pros listen to catch the slightest sound from a buyer to learn their reactions to the showing and only mention unusual features that have a romantic appeal. Announcing a fantastic view from a high rise apartment while the buyer is looking out at it is an example of an owners faux pax.

The suggestion that the apartment manager be encouraged to show the unit and to speak highly of it to all can be achieved with a small commission offered out of the sale proceeds.

I offered the building manager of my penthouse in Hawaii a thousand dollars if he referred a buyer, and he did and it sold to them.

A "fact sheet" regarding your unit should be on display in the unit so lookers can take away the details about your unit for subsequent review. A glossy photo affixed thereto is also good.

Soft music and anything else to create a warm and welcoming ambiance should be done. I have often seen breakfast trays, fully set with attractive dishes and linen placed on a turned down bed cover to create an illusion. Gas operated fireplaces should be on.

There are a number of how to sell your home shows on British television, not seen here, they go through the steps on how to max out property to sell well. Sometimes painting is required. Sometimes renting furniture to make a place more attractive works.

Most developers pay enormous sums to interior decorators to make their display units more attractive, even to the point of buying or building scaled down furniture to make rooms seem larger. Removal of doors temporarily is quite common.

Unfortunately, Thais have yet to learn these "sales techniques" and as a result, most homes offered for resale in Thailand are poorly maintained and usually turn everyone off, including outrageous asking prices that are not negotiable in many cases.

I have tried to figure the why of this and can only conclude that since there are no property taxes being paid, there is no real need to sell, since the hope of appreciating prices with time hovers in their minds. Without a remodel to sell, properties just deteriorate over time to the point they become unsaleable.

When there is a glut of "product" on the market, agents are most unresponsive to taking on new listings, since carrying a listing does involve expense for advertising, etc and if the prospect of sale is poor, more so.

Among real estate professionals who work condos, buildings have reputations as being "good" or not depending on maintenance, security and location. In a glutted market, if your in a building not considered by an agent as "good" more reason not to take the listing. This is especially true if agents also represent buyers.

Those of us who come from a multiple listing enviroment often wonder how units sell at all when there are only listing agents at work. In great neighborhoods in Sydney, agents hold open houses for only fifteen minutes once a week. In the U.S. it is usually a minimum of four hours, as many new buyers are obtained from unrepresented buyers who are looking on their own. Not so here.

I can imagine how difficult if must be for a condo buyer to pry a listing agent out of his office, if he is even there, to show him a condo that the potential buyer might have been lucky enough to find on his own.

[samtam]

ProThai Expar and quiksilva have good advice on selling, and having bought and sold property in UK, (and seen those TV programmes) these pieces of advice seem straightforward and obvious to me. In Thailand there is mostly no proper presentation of properties for sale, and these will languish on the sales board for months or years. Thais seem unwilling to make a modest investment to show a property to its full potential. As to getting the agent to show the property, in the west I would agree. But not here. The agent I had was worse than useless. She brought two sets of clients together, (unbeknownst to me), and one guy took about 30 photos of my furniture, design layout etc, (I'm a designer), despite the fact that none of the furniture was included in the sale. I thought he was the gofer for the other two clients, so I was reluctant to challenge him on what the h-ll he was doing, in case it put the others off. I asked the agent what was going on after the visit and she said that he had been so impressed with the furniture etc. I asked why she had allowed this to continue, when she knew full well that the furniture was not for sale. She was totally unprofessional - I reminded her that I would be paying her if there was a sale. I asked the agency in the future to not bother sending their staff to show, as I would do it myself. The problem here is that it's an unregulated market, with unqualified people with no experience in selling and less common sense. ("This is the kitchen"...etc...it couldn't be anything else....stating the ble-ding obvious.)

On the buying side, agents are too lazy. They only show you what is on their books, (even if it's no where near the requirements that you've specified). They are far too lazy to research and even share commissions with other agencies, (although I don't know why they can't see that 50% of 3% is better than 0% of 0).

The best bet is to do your own research and above all to follow the location, (location, location) rule. Just use agents as an inventory reference, but do not rely on them for anything. This is true of both the Thai and Western-owned agencies here. There is no serious competition, so the bar is very low in terms of service. My comments are applicable to a good and, as now, bad market.

Edited May 14, 2007 by samtam

[Oleg_Rus]

On the buying side, agents are too lazy. They only show you what is on their books, (even if it's no where near the requirements that you've specified). They are far too lazy to research and even share commissions with other agencies, (although I don't know why they can't see that 50% of 3% is better than 0% of 0).

The best bet is to do your own research and above all to follow the location, (location, location) rule.

Just get an idea... here comes the check list

1. Lots a property to deal with

2. Lazy agents

3. Desperate landlords (owners)

4. Bad introduction of estate|condo|whatever business itself

5. Moronic staff on the phone ( I don't want to say where did I call, but he published his phone and I needed research. Respect)

6. Wannabees in business.

Well, don't you see an opportunity ?

[samtam]

I agree. There is an opportunity to found a great real estate business. But setting up a company here is not exactly easy at the moment, and the property market is going to be in the doldrums for another 6-12 months.

[Oleg_Rus]

I agree. There is an opportunity to found a great real estate business. But setting up a company here is not exactly easy at the moment, and the property market is going to be in the doldrums for another 6-12 months.

Correctomundo !

Another tick in the checklist

?? Setting up a company is a hassle by now

Well, and ...

And it's allready off blue-prints, and thanks everybody for brain stormin'

Esp. 2 Mr QS - Respect

Edited May 14, 2007 by Oleg_Rus

[quiksilva]

Good luck guys, so who are you going to employ?

[Oleg_Rus]

Good luck guys, so who are you going to employ?

Very good question.

Most likely - one expert in setting an offer in a readable way ( operator w|English )

Oh, and 1 PR person

and probably, that is it

the rest is "no need"

[HowardJohnson]

Why don't you?

The silence from this particular forums sponsers is deafening

Hi All,

Ok, time to fess up!

I am a broker and work for SRE, one of the forum sponsors.

I am based in Pattaya so cannot speak for the Bkk market but all I can say is that if I am invited to list a property, then I will make an appointment and list it. I will try to give the best advice regarding the price and how to sell it quickly but I know this is not the case with a lot of brokers.

Many will not get out of bed for less than 100k commission. I am not defending them and I think it is bad business practice but I guess in a place like Bangkok, having to spend hours in the traffic and then MAYBE finding a buyer at some point in the future may not be to appealing for some brokers. I repeat - I think this is bad for business and a reputation so I will always accept an invite to see a property.

Laziness is inherent in this business and I try to instill good customer service to my staff but it does not always work that way.

I hope you manage to find a good broker who can help you and you are successful in getting a buyer.

Oh BTW: Torrenova, I believe I have replied to you a couple of times through other forums but I have yet to hear from you.........

Cheers!

HoJo

AKA - Adam

[dave111223]

I had the same experience when buying my condo. Agents hardly returned calls. Zero follow ups after a showing. Back in the US it seems like once you've talked to an agent once they'll be hounding you until you buy.

Even when we decided to buy this condo it was like pulling teeth trying to get it finalized.

I'll tell you one thing, when it is time to sell this place i'll be selling it myself. No way i'm gonna pay some @sshole thousands of baht to take out a 1"x1" B&W in the newspaper and then maybe return buyer's phone calls.

But obviously seeing as you don't live near to the property you don't have this option :\

[yeti]

I have to agree with most people here.

I tried to buy for 6 months. I have visited many units for which I've found ads on internet, or in building boards (make sure that there is an ad on your building board, and that the juristic person knows who to contact if someone comes in the building asking if there is a condo for sale).

After every visit with an agent, I always listed what I was interested in, and told them to contact me if they had anything like this. Guess what, none of them ever contacted me.

The worst I've seen: 2 ads for a condo for sale in the same building, nearly same size, one for 2.5 million, and one for 3.1 million. I thought that 1 unit needed refurbishing, and the other was probably ok, so made an appointment with both sellers with 1 hour difference.

After visiting the 1st condo with an agent, I stayed downstair waiting for the 2nd seller. The agent also stayed waiting for another buyer. That's when we realised that the 2 ads were for the same condo, the seller putting the 2.5 million one, and the agent putting the 3.1 million one (not negotiable), eventhough the seller told the agent to sell it for 2.5 million. (and I wouldn't have bought for more than 1.5 given the poor state of the place).

[honkin]

Among real estate professionals who work condos, buildings have reputations as being "good" or not depending on maintenance, security and location. In a glutted market, if your in a building not considered by an agent as "good" more reason not to take the listing. This is especially true if agents also represent buyers.

Is there any way to find out then which locations are considered good? Would also appreciate any sort of heads up as to decent agent (one who who deals with condos) to speak to so as to look at properties.

My wife and I want to purchase a condo in Bangkok and hopefully rent it out until we finally move to Thailand. I'm not really sure where we want to live, but not overly stressed so long as it is not miles out. Chitlom, Silom, Sukhumvit somewhere handy to the skytrain etc.

Budget around 10,000,000 baht.

Any help gladly accepted - things to watch out for etc

Cheers

[ProThaiExpat]

From what has been posted about BKK agents, you are better off doing the work yourself. Your eyes are as good as any agents and agents opinions regarding what buildings are "good" ones, comes from what they see on their daily rounds.

Since the three principles of real estate are location repeated twice, its up to you to pick where you want to live. Clearly, near a sky train station is usually preferred, but subways stations should be factored in as well. If you will have a car, perhaps a super highway nearby might be good, however, there is parking in town to consider and of course the congestion.

The farther out you go the cheaper the condo, all things being equal.

A "good" building is one that is managed well, with good juristic person reserves and an active management board. You can usually tell a "good" building by just looking at the way it is maintained, providing however, that all the units have been sold and new owners have taken title.

Condo building developers often fund operating expenses in excess of what revenue is available from owners once they are gone, to make the building more attractive for sales purposes.

If you hire a lawyer, make sure he reviews the remedies the unit owners, through their board, have to collect delinquent maintenance fees.

Don't be above talking to unit owners, if you can find falangs in the building you are interested in.

Most advice is to rent for a while so you can research without pressure to find a place to live. As you get to know people in the expat community, you will learn much about condos and their reputations.

Good luck.