Should covid liars and deniers be punished or blocked ?

[sidgy]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

In this case i got rattled by a proven lie, so no people on ICU with covid its ahoax and they doctors get 20k per patient. 

 

But i truely do understand what you mean there is a big grey area. That is why i posed the question. If i had a good awnser id post it too. But I have no real idea because its hard to fight. 

 

But i think we should go after people who influence a lot of others if they state proven lies. We should not limit open debate. But yes there is an area that overlaps.

The problem is, it isnt a Proven lie in the eyes of the law so no punishment should be made. Most people will see it as a falsehood with their own eyes but unless taken to court as lets say   "making falshoods lilkely to cause harm"   and found guilty, then who else should have the right to declare it is a lie that must be punished ?

 

[TKDfella]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

I was talking about blatant lies, not people with a different opinion (like climate change) or people like PeterDennis who questions lockdown but comes with a paper backing it up. (i disagree but there is basis for his claim)

 

In this case i got rattled by a proven lie, so no people on ICU with covid its ahoax and they doctors get 20k per patient. 

 

But i truely do understand what you mean there is a big grey area. That is why i posed the question. If i had a good awnser id post it too. But I have no real idea because its hard to fight. 

 

But i think we should go after people who influence a lot of others if they state proven lies. We should not limit open debate. But yes there is an area that overlaps.

 

You say don't punish you drive them away.. sure but what about big influencers that all of a sudden get people to disobey all covid rules because its a hoax. You can't always ignore people.

Nope you don't understand and don't forget we are talking fake news (as stated in the OP) too. People get to lie/fake but do it 'legitimately' with publishing papers knowing that they could have a very wide audience, not in just one country but everywhere. D. Trump was very likely swayed by such (G.W.) deniers (as might other conservatives) and you can't get much more influential than that. 

[natway09]

As I have posted already, I got ridiculed for wearing a mask in a 7/11 by two guys who thought I was  "sissy" for doing so. ( I know their Nationality but won't start that here)

It is actually sad,

They are not only possibly  endangering themselves but all the people they come in contact with

To me somehow they sould be punished , but how ? Make them pay for their own treatment should they conttact the virus, but this in itself is not enough as they stand to make others sick & suffer. This quote springs to mind,

"You are part of the Animal Kingdom on this earth, Humans are very lucky to have been given a better brain than the lower animals . Why don't you use it ? "

Some folks will always be in denial

 

[TKDfella]

2 minutes ago, natway09 said:

As I have posted already, I got ridiculed for wearing a mask in a 7/11 by two guys who thought I was  "sissy" for doing so. ( I know their Nationality but won't start that here)

It is actually sad,

They are not only possibly  endangering themselves but all the people they come in contact with

To me somehow they sould be punished , but how ? Make them pay for their own treatment should they conttact the virus, but this in itself is not enough as they stand to make others sick & suffer. This quote springs to mind,

"You are part of the Animal Kingdom on this earth, Humans are very lucky to have been given a better brain than the lower animals . Why don't you use it ? "

Some folks will always be in denial

 

Does 7/11 have messaging same as Lotus? If so why not report (or indicate) to staff and let the staff handle it. I wear a mask all the time when outside and I don't take notice of what other people might think.

[KKr]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:19 AM, Gumballl said:

Ouch.

 

You must be an old gent to have bad vibes against the Germans.

man, not a gentle-one

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

On 1/21/2021 at 3:16 AM, robblok said:

I read it because i see it on TV a lot too outright lies about covid.

Oooh Rob! Now you have to sit down and take a break. Are you really getting your information from reading in the news and looking at TV?

That must come to an end. The only source of information you can trust is TV-Forom and it´s neverending amount of know it allers.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Dagfinnur Traustason

[Virt]

No need to jail those anti vaxxers , but maybe their passport should be locked up ????

 

I think as time goes by more and more people will realize the vaccines are not that dangerous and a far better alternative to covid-19. 

 

The recent poll here in Denmark said 9 out of 10 would take the vaccine, so the share of nay sayers are becoming smaller and smaller. 

[NoshowJones]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:19 AM, Gumballl said:

Ouch.

 

You must be an old gent to have bad vibes against the Germans.

Better than waking up as a French guy.

[LukKrueng]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:14 AM, robblok said:

The problem is a lot of people are not smart enough or want to believe lies. Just look at the USA. My point is actually more about proven lies then a different of opinion. Should people be allowed to spread lies or should something be done about it.

 

Its a really slippery slope, but when lies are this blatant and the damage from them big should there not be something done. 

Lies and conspiracy theories always existed. Some people belive and spread it forward, some disregard it. The Internet is just another platform that makes it easier to reach more people

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:03 AM, robblok said:

Im getting more and more annoyed by the lies of the anti vaxers and covid deniers. The last bit came today when i was browsing the Dutch news during my breakfast.

 

A guy from 80 years old a "homeopathic doctor" was saying that there was no covid, that there were no people on the intensive care and that doctors were faking it all and getting 20.000 euros per patient. 

 

This was in the news and readily spread on social media. Should these kinds of nutcases that are proven wrong (take them to an IC let them see the people there) be procecuted or at least be banned from the use of internet. Its just horrible how so many of those nutcases keep creating fake news and undermining all confidence.

 

Fake news really is a problem and its becoming bigger and bigger. I dont like the alternative of censorship. But if news is proven lies there should be some consequences to it IMHO. 

Let them rant, let them rave. I see it all the time on CNN. Why cancel this idiot and not them.

[khunPer]

On 1/21/2021 at 3:03 AM, robblok said:

Im getting more and more annoyed by the lies of the anti vaxers and covid deniers. The last bit came today when i was browsing the Dutch news during my breakfast.

 

[ ... ]

 

Fake news really is a problem and its becoming bigger and bigger. I dont like the alternative of censorship. But if news is proven lies there should be some consequences to it IMHO. 

Best way to stop fake news, is to use common sense and stop reading too much...????????

 

If we wish to allow free speech, we need to accept different opinions and points of view, including some news we might considers as fake – those writing and sharing it might be of an opinion that it's true, and that you OP "robblok" is the one that is wrong, by considering it as fake news – a difficult balance, which the present situation on social media clearly shows with blocking some people. It's a question of point of view who is right, and who is wrong...????

[CharlieH]

Flame post removed.

[Fairynuff]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

If you say that you think Trump was a great president, that is your view (opinion)

If you say you think trump was a great president, you have a screw loose. (My opinion)????????

[RocketDog]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:19 AM, FarFlungFalang said:

Everybody lies,so should everybody be banned from the internet for telling proven lies?Who would run the internet if everybody is a proven lier?"Everything will be all right" is a lie because everything isn't alright.

The Russian mystic Gurfjieff taught that the outstanding characteristic of humans is that they lie to themselves and to others. I agree that you are correct in that strictest sense. 

 

An then there are the trumpers who do not lie but present alternative facts. Apparently there is a germane difference that I've been unable to distinguish. 

 

And then there is the old maxim that if you think things are going well it simply proves that you have no clue to what's really happening. 

[Mike E]

Should Liars and Deniers be blocked?

 

OR In Other Words

 

all those in favor of the Minisrty of Truth, raise your hands!

 

[Mike E]

5 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Flat Earthers hurt no one.  Anti-Vaxxers do.  Which is tied to conspiracy theorists.  Like Pizza gate which cost the life of one person.

“Like Pizzagate which cost the life of one person”.  See?  One more conspiracy theory that some people still believe. 

[Virt]

 

Some are sceptical and say they don't want vaccines until many has been vaccinated so they can watch the side-effects along the road.  Those I don't label as anti vaxxers, because they are likely to get vaccinated when they see it's Ok. 

 

Those who refuse to take the vaccines no matter what and come up with all sorts of crazy excuses are the ones I call anti vaxxers. 

 

Which persons in their right mind think we are being injected with GPS tracking devices or there is a hidden agenda to kill the elderly and weak. 

 

Seriously......

 

As for the messenger RNA vaccines you need to research some more.

It's basically a recipe for our body to start producing anti bodies against covid-19, so even if it does not contain live or dead virus or any DNA, it still does what a normal vaccine does. 

 

Some scientists hope that if this technique works well, it should be possible to make recipes for several cancer diseases.

 

So let's not fear new methods, but look at the massive amount of data that Pfizer and Moderna released from their phase 3 studies, which shows they are just as safe as old school vaccines. 

 

Almost 200 years when locomotives were used as passenger trains some people thought it was impossible to breathe travelling at that speed, or that the vibrations would knock people unconscious. 

History is full of example where people fear new technology, but shouldn't we be wiser these days? 

[Rimmer]

Conspiracy troll post and a reply removed

[xtrnuno41]

There are also people who say the world is flat, you wan to punish them?

Many say (including docs) statines are a medicine for high cholesterol.

Ill say it is poison, noticed it  and with me lots of other people. It breaks down your body.

It is a very profitable  medicine worldwide. You want to punish me? I tell you dont use it, it is poison.

 

The Dutch government and others first denied covid until it was too late and were confronted with it. They thought it was a lie?

Then were begging to Dutch people for mouth caps for healthcare in hospital, but in the same time said mouth caps dont work?!

Later on mouth caps were/are  a must !

They kept English mutant a secret (they already knew in september) for a while and dint do a thing.

OK if you dont tell it is not a lie. Though UK said it was far more dangerous, they thought UK was lying? 

Well now we are punished again as we didnt believe the UK probably.

So this one is roaming the earth now and NOW it is a big issue.

if you dont say anything there is no lie, only when you start talking, then it can become a lie.

Especially politicians (and many others) know that and thats why they never give a clear answer.

A politician is by standard the biggest liar there is. Punish them?

[Tug]

Yes they should if knowingly doing it they are endangering the health of others if they are doing so deliberately for political purposes they should be jailed and not allowed to run for office the antivaxers are akin to Q anon followers idiots imo

[Scott]

A post with a trolling meme removed.

 

[tgw]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:03 AM, robblok said:

Im getting more and more annoyed by the lies of the anti vaxers and covid deniers. The last bit came today when i was browsing the Dutch news during my breakfast.

 

A guy from 80 years old a "homeopathic doctor" was saying that there was no covid, that there were no people on the intensive care and that doctors were faking it all and getting 20.000 euros per patient. 

 

This was in the news and readily spread on social media. Should these kinds of nutcases that are proven wrong (take them to an IC let them see the people there) be procecuted or at least be banned from the use of internet. Its just horrible how so many of those nutcases keep creating fake news and undermining all confidence.

 

Fake news really is a problem and its becoming bigger and bigger. I dont like the alternative of censorship. But if news is proven lies there should be some consequences to it IMHO. 

 

prosecution for lying to the public with the aim of causing civil unrest. 10 year maximum sentence.

 

expedited public trial on TV, like, one week after arrest.

 

explanation in detail and detailed proof during the trial. sentence the same day. one year jail for simple offenses.

 

 

[tgw]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:09 AM, sanuk711 said:

"Should covid liars and deniers be punished or blocked"

 

What sort of punishment did you have in mind for people with a different opinion then you Rob.....

 

lying is not an opinion.

 

[Neeranam]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:03 AM, robblok said:

Should these kinds of nutcases that are proven wrong (take them to an IC let them see the people there) be procecuted or at least be banned from the use of internet. Its just horrible how so many of those nutcases keep creating fake news and undermining all confidence

Do you not believe in free speech? 

[tgw]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Do you not believe in free speech? 

 

free speech yes.

they should be able to say anything they want.

and then face jail terms if they are found deliberately lying to the public.

[Neeranam]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:14 AM, robblok said:

The problem is a lot of people are not smart enough or want to believe lies. Just look at the USA.

Are you saying they are not smart? What lies are you talking about?

[Mayhem11]

What a lot of ballyhoo. Of course people are entitled to their opinions. As for facts, facts are a construct for a particular narrative. Those who posit “facts” as the unassailable truth are misguided. Eg courts decide issues of fact all the time, because witnesses all have their versions of the facts. Even courts don’t decide truth, they merely make decisions about “facts” based on tests like “on the balance of probabilities” or “beyond reasonable doubt”. Those who tout “facts” as truth are deluded low grade morons. So those who think Covid 19 is not real or that vaccines have serious side effects are entitled to those opinions. As for purging social media of non facts well shut down this page for good. 

[robblok]

10 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Are you saying they are not smart? What lies are you talking about?

I am saying im smart enough but not everyone is. There were people believing this idiot dodr. 

 

10 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Do you not believe in free speech? 

Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom to lie and deceive and cause damage.

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I guess you think that banning people from YouTube/Twitter etc is acceptable? 

There was a great video from Brian Rose, interviewing David Icke that can't be seen anymore. There is a lot that most people don't understand about this pandemic, that should be heard. 

 

 

I think you have a problem reading, and assume things.

 

I said a few times that I am talking about proven lies and I took as example the guy who said that ICU have no covid patients and that doctors get 20k per patient. Those are really hard lies. That is of an other order then debating a different point of view. I am talking about lies like that. Not about different opinions based on real facts.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I think you have a problem reading, and assume things.

 

I said a few times that I am talking about proven lies and I took as example the guy who said that ICU have no covid patients and that doctors get 20k per patient. Those are really hard lies. That is of an other order then debating a different point of view. I am talking about lies like that. Not about different opinions based on real facts.

You either believe in free speech or you don't, which is it?