Why vaccianate everybody instead of just 10-20%?

[Throatwobbler]

20 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Luckily there are also more tolerant people in this world, and I am sure that - irrespective their opinion on vaccines - those tolerant ones feel sad for you when reading such a spiteful post. 

I am still waiting for you to tell us where you studied medicine and where you studied medical science.

 

People also understand that your selfish reasons for not getting a vaccine will endanger the lives of those who can not  have vaccines for medical reasons.

 

You think that I am full of spite but your selfishness in truth could see innocent people die.

 

Now which do you think is worse? My spite or your selfishness?

Edited January 25, 2021 by Throatwobbler

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

...

People also understand that your selfish reasons for not getting a vaccine will endanger the lives of those who can not  have vaccines for medical reasons.

You think that I am full of spite but your selfishness in truth could see innocent people die.

Now which do you think is worse? My spite or your selfishness?

Your spite...

Edited January 25, 2021 by Peter Denis

[Throatwobbler]

Just now, Peter Denis said:

Your spite...

It is a shame that you potentially causing someone’s death is worth less to you than your hurt feelings. 

[sirineou]

Cant get the handle of the new Edit option and keep replying to myself  rather than editing. I think there is medication for that condition, I will look it up

Edited January 25, 2021 by sirineou

[Pro1Expat]

1 hour ago, Throatwobbler said:

But it is a virus that mutated into a more deadly form. You said that you had never heard of a virus doing that.

How do know it is? Changed yes but far more deadly? Never happened as far as we are aware in the past

[Throatwobbler]

2 minutes ago, Pro1Expat said:

How do know it is? Changed yes but far more deadly? Never happened as far as we are aware in the past

Are you serious?

[Pro1Expat]

1 hour ago, Throatwobbler said:

But it is a virus that mutated into a more deadly form. You said that you had never heard of a virus doing that.

Have you ever heard of it? I doubt it and from what I read no one else has either. Maybe is some far off place in Africa there have been such things but we are not aware of them if there are.

[rabas]

6 minutes ago, Pro1Expat said:

How do know it is? Changed yes but far more deadly? Never happened as far as we are aware in the past

One of the most famous stories in history. It mutated in year 2 and started killing mostly young people in their 20s and 30s. 50 million of them. One of the worst pandemics.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by rabas

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Pro1Expat said:

Which other virus do you know of that has mutated into a more dangerous strain? I have never heard of any virus doing it.

Influenza F*F*S*

Edited January 25, 2021 by sometimewoodworker

[Pro1Expat]

37 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Not true!! 

From the US CDC official website updated Jan5 2021 I have underlined the pertinent section.:

"All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States have been shown to be highly effective at preventing COVID-19. . "

Further more it goes on to say :

" Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a COVID-19 vaccine may also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html

 

If it is true it will be the first vaccine that has done what you say. If it is true why is the information put out that you can still get the virus a second time even if you have had the vaccine?

Edited January 25, 2021 by Pro1Expat

[Pro1Expat]

Just now, rabas said:

One of the most famous stories in history. It mutated in year 2 and stated killing mostly young people in their 20s and 30s.

In history there are a lot of things that happened doesnt mean this is the same

[Pro1Expat]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Influenza F*F*S*

Do we lock down for the Flu?

[Throatwobbler]

1 minute ago, Pro1Expat said:

Do we lock down for the Flu?

You said you didn’t know of a virus that mutated myself and at least one other poster have given you examples of viruses that did and now you just change what you are talking about. Honestly what do you want?

 

[Pro1Expat]

11 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

You said you didn’t know of a virus that mutated myself and at least one other poster have given you examples of viruses that did and now you just change what you are talking about. Honestly what do you want?

 

No I said viruses do mutate but they don't go from a flu type to something akin to Ebola in a mutation. What I want it the truth from Politicians not the scare mongering that they are doing right now.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Pro1Expat

[rabas]

10 minutes ago, Pro1Expat said:

In history there are a lot of things that happened doesnt mean this is the same

Almost exactly.

 

The Spanish flu was new to humans, just crossed over from birds, which can cause mutations and very severe pandemics.

 

SARS2 just now crossed over from Bats. It is now starting to show significant mutations. 

 

SARS2 is far more unique that the Spanish flu. (forget colds, not the same) SARS2 is the first ever virus in humans that broadly attacks our ACE2 receptors found everywhere in the body. That is why so many different organs can get infected.

 

The Spanish flu was just another flu, except it had just crossed from birds. There is real reason to be cautious about SARS-2, especially because it is so infective and can  spread silently.

Edited January 25, 2021 by rabas

[Pro1Expat]

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

Almost exactly.

 

The Spanish flu was new to humans, just crossed over from birds, which can cause mutations and very severe pandemics.

 

SARS2 just now crossed over from Bats. It is now starting to show significant mutations. 

 

SARS2 is far more unique that the Spanish flu. (forget colds, not the same) SARS2 is the first ever virus in humans that broadly attacks our ACE2 receptors found everywhere in the body. That is why so many different organs can get infected.

 

The Spanish flu was just another flu, except it had just crossed from birds. There is real reason to be cautious about SARS-2, especially because it is so infective and can  spread silently.

There is always cause for concern when a virus is totally unrelated to any known virus. Covid is not like that though there are at least 4 types of Corona  strains in Covid including the Flue and the common cold. So this is not a totally unknown virus.

Governments though are lumping Flu in with this, a virus that kills many every year but we dont lock down for it and the common cold for which there is no vaccine.

With SAR's we did not lock down, with Flu we dont, for MER's we didnt. Get the picture?

[sirineou]

22 minutes ago, Pro1Expat said:

If it is true it will be the first vaccine that has done what you say. If it is true why is the information put out that you can still get the virus a second time even if you have had the vaccine?

Because the vaccine is not 100%  effective and even when  it is affective  it wears out a certain time and you need to be re-vaccinated. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by sirineou
typo

[Throatwobbler]

3 hours ago, Pro1Expat said:

this must be the first virus to ever mutate into something far more dangerous. Which other virus do you know of that has mutated into a more dangerous strain?

Pro1Expat.

 

These were your original words about the virus mutating.

 

Please tell me where you say anything about this mutating into a different virus.

 

You are changing your tune with each post.

[sometimewoodworker]

13 minutes ago, Pro1Expat said:

No I said viruses do mutate but they don't go from a flu type to something akin to Ebola in a mutation. What I want it the truth from Politicians not the scare mongering that they are doing right now.

No you did not, you may have intended to but you didn’t 

Quote

Which other virus do you know of that has mutated into a more dangerous strain? I have never heard of any virus doing it.

 

[rabas]

10 minutes ago, Pro1Expat said:

There is always cause for concern when a virus is totally unrelated to any known virus. Covid is not like that though there are at least 4 types of Corona  strains in Covid including the Flue and the common cold. So this is not a totally unknown virus.

Governments though are lumping Flu in with this, a virus that kills many every year but we dont lock down for it and the common cold for which there is no vaccine.

With SAR's we did not lock down, with Flu we dont, for MER's we didnt. Get the picture?

Only the name is not new. There are many kinds of coronavirus in nature, they are not the same. The common cold ones do not attack your ACE2 receptors, completely different mechanism.  MERS is a corona virus, mortality rate ~30%, but does not spread. Coronavirus has nothing to so wth flus.

 

SARS-1 never spread, only a few cases, 700+ died. Airports were empty in Asia.

 

SARS-2 now 100,000,000+ cases and rising at an increasing rate.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by rabas

[Pro1Expat]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

Because the vaccine is not 100%  effective and even when  it is affective  it wears out a certain time and you need to be re-vaccinated. didnt have it.

I see you understand what I am saying. If the vaccine, which we know it isnt, a fix for the virus then it would b great but we are still told to live our lives exactly the same as if we have not had the jab. Something in my mind does not add up when a vaccine means the way you live is the same as when you had not had it.

You are, if you believe the Politicians, just as likely to spread it, just as likely to contract it again. So please, if you can give me a compelling advantage that the vaccine gives you? I cant think of one

[Pro1Expat]

3 minutes ago, Throatwobbler said:

Pro1Expat.

 

These were your original words about the virus mutating.

 

Please tell me where you say anything about this mutating into a different virus.

 

You are changing your tune with each post.

It does mutate but it doesnt go from a cold to a certain death strain

[Throatwobbler]

1 minute ago, Pro1Expat said:

It does mutate but it doesnt go from a cold to a certain death strain

You really don’t understand the meanings of the words you first wrote do you.

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts and replies reported and removed.  

 

[rabas]

2 minutes ago, Pro1Expat said:

It does mutate but it doesnt go from a cold to a certain death strain

Spanish flu did. Before that people said "Just a flu."

[sometimewoodworker]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

27 minutes ago, Pro1Expat said:

If it is true it will be the first vaccine that has done what you say. If it is true why is the information put out that you can still get the virus a second time even if you have had the vaccine?

Because the vaccine is not 100%  effective and even when  it is affective  it wears out a certain time and you need to be re-vaccinated. 

Not really correct.

With the Oxford vaccine after the initial shot and 7~10 days later anyone who got COVID19 after that did not need to be hospitalised.

 

If I catch a cold I don’t go to hospital in the same way once I’ve got the first Oxford shot I will not need to go to hospital if I contract Covid19 

[Pro1Expat]

Just now, rabas said:

Spanish flu did. Before that people said "Just a flu."

True but medicine has progressed a lot since then. There are many virologists who have said, go to BMA and Lancet plus USA equivalents, the panic that is generated is unjustified.

Statistics, go to the ONS (Office of National Statistics) do not show a high mortality from th virus.and the government was using solid verifiable data no one would question it but the data they are using is selected to give the impact they desire and much of it is old and out of date.

Here in Italy the minister for health a while back made a statement that the people that died all were over 80 and all had at least 3 under laying health conditions.

Check the ONS you will find it interesting

[Pro1Expat]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not really correct.

With the Oxford vaccine after the initial shot and 7~10 days later anyone who got COVID19 after that did not need to be hospitalised.

 

If I catch a cold I don’t go to hospital in the same way once I’ve got the first Oxford shot I will not need to go to hospital if I contract Covid19 

that is what the British government are implying

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

19 hours ago, gafdtomaka366 said:

Given that around 90% recover with no problem at all, and given that the number would be even higher if every sick person  was discovered, why vaccianate everybody instead of 10%, at most 20%, in the risk group?

If you do not understand that yourself, It would be a total waste of time trying to explain it.

[sirineou]

Just now, Pro1Expat said:

I see you understand what I am saying. If the vaccine, which we know it isnt, a fix for the virus then it would b great but we are still told to live our lives exactly the same as if we have not had the jab. Something in my mind does not add up when a vaccine means the way you live is the same as when you had not had it.

You are, if you believe the Politicians, just as likely to spread it, just as likely to contract it again. So please, if you can give me a compelling advantage that the vaccine gives you? I cant think of one

As we said it's not 100% effective and it wears out after a certain time, so we still need to be carefull. 

as far as the "fix" is concerned , it works in the following way,  In order that the virus spreads it needs new hosts , so imagine that there is only one person infecter, and 7.6 billion possible hosts that can receive the virus from that one host. now if we could vaccinate a 100 people that  can't be infected and form a wall around that one infected person the viruce is effectively neutralized.  The infected person will either recover or die, either way the virus if eliminated unless it remains dormant, or is re-introduced from the wilde. 

That's how we brahe the virus's back. It is a simplistic explanation to be sure, and there are other components to consider, but for the purpose of this conversation adequate IMO