Poll- Do You Feel That Thailand Wants You Or Wants You Out?

[Pepe']

OP.

Why not come to the USA we encourage illegal immigration and there are plenty of bleeding heart social workers that will facilitate your move

and help you keep under the radar.

Bank of America will give you a secured credit card with no visa or green card. Your new son will get a pretty good free education too. Don't forget food stamps and free health care even up to major surgeries.

You cannot be turned away.

USA still the land of opportunity, just not for Americans..

[mikethevigoman]

But still they come, and come again, and stay, and buy land in a Thai womans name, and moan and bitch on internet forums about how hard done by they are.

They do have choices, but their future will depend on whether the choice they made was right or wrong.

You know the rules of the game, and it's a game for the big boys, if you can't hack it, sit on the touchline and pass out the orange slices at half time.

Yes, we buy land in our wive's names because your racist government doesn't allow us to buy it ourselves. Thais can come to my country (US) and buy land. And, whenever something goes wrong or the gov wants to shake things up they pick on the buyer, even though a thai sold the land and a thai lawyer (in most cases) did the sometimes shady paperwork.

Answer me this please, why is it always the farang who is considered to be the causes of all the problems in this country? Aren't there any thais who are man enough to accept responsibilty.

I feel that part of the problem is that the Chinese who have colonized Thailand don't want to have to compete on a level playing field... thus they make it hard for non-asians to get ahead.

I may or may not spend the rest of my life here... haven't decided. The four families that I support by employing them a wages at least three time what they'd make anywhere else will suffer. But I'm sure the gov is ok with that if they can get rid of a farang. Trust me, I will make it my life's work to expose the facts about the Land of Smiles. I've got enough info for a book already, complete with tons of photos.

Land of Smiles.... yeah, as long as your wallet is open

........... If anywhere in the west acted like this all hel_l would break loose,...but we have to put our tails between our legs and scurry off ,some members here are being a bit hard ," if you dont like it go "blah, blah blah,,i love it here, i also live here but there is a definate difference in attitude towards us from the air stewardesses on thai that dont make eye contact right up to the government,. they dont need us like they did, period Edited May 13, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[Pepe']

I can only conclude from the actions of the Thai Government, that they want us to leave. Personally I hope we all leave and when I say we, I'm not referring to the whoremongers who come here for a week or two of quickies. I refer to the people like me who have moved here, married, had a child or children and wanted to make Thailand their home.

This country has made promises, contracts, and implied contracts with the foreigners who come here to live only to poke them in the eye at every stage. I am not 50 years old. I am not what Thailand would describe as a retiree but I was able to move here, get a visa extension based on my marriage to a Thai and now we have a child.

I have just found out in order for me to continue getting 1 year extension to my original O visa, I or my wife must go out and get a job to show the Thai Government that we have an income. I don't need a job, nor do I wish to spend my time working. I don't want my wife working either. Bringing up a boy is enough work.

I'm angry.

I came here on a pretext or a contract. The Thai government said if you're under 50 and you marry and support a Thai, you show 400,000 baht in a bank account, fill out our paperwork, and we make your life easier by not forcing you to make visa runs. Fair enough - I came, married a Thai - filled out their paperwork and got my extension.

Now they pull the rug out from under me and expect me to smile that stupid smile like a sheep getting sheared. I'm not a sheeple. There was a contract, there was consideration and there was agreement, and now they have violated the terms.

Most of you are probably here on a retirement visa so your ox isn't being gored. Do you care? Probably not until they come for you. When they change your requirement from 800,000 baht in the bank to 1.5 million or 2 million you might start bitching. At what price will you start twitching?

The retired man or woman on a fixed income doesn't have the luxury of coming up with more baht to put in the bank. Will you scoff at them the Thais renig on their promise?

It has been one thing after another. What or who will be next? Maybe you.

------------------------

Seriously, now. Do whatever it takes to preserve and protect your family while loving them all the time. Ignore the "jibes" and arrogent cuts that are all some members have to offer on a regular basis.

I understand your frustration. If you have enough cash maybe you've worked plenty and hard enough already, or inherited it. no difference.

Remember Lord Buddha told us all things pass away. He left is family and palace to practice self realization. And achieved perfection. We will all lose everything sooner or later.

It is your time to enjoy and love your family. If you want to stay in Thailand I'm sure you will figure out a way to do it.

I was all set to retire in Thailand 2 years ago, plans changed and I'm actually happy to just visit friends and family for a month now every year.

Don't listen to the unkind words from many unfeeling people that will confuse and frustrate you.

If you are so inclined try to spend some time with some monks that speak English. You will feel much better I guarantee it.

Best of Luck and Good Health,

Pepe'...

[mikethevigoman]

@dumspero: yes, more or less. The figure is higher, more or less relative to the GDP of the country.

@popshirt: Don't know about Panama, but at least Brazil, a country the size of USA, has similar cost than Thailand with a lot more benefits, as long as you stay out of the big cities.

@Austhaied: knityourownpubes.com? It doesn't exist - and if it did and the Thai authorities knew about that and your link to it they would probably deport you post haste.

REF Austhaied..Its called a sense of humour, some of us are gifted with It ! Edited May 13, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[Austhaied]

@dumspero: yes, more or less. The figure is higher, more or less relative to the GDP of the country.

@popshirt: Don't know about Panama, but at least Brazil, a country the size of USA, has similar cost than Thailand with a lot more benefits, as long as you stay out of the big cities.

@Austhaied: knityourownpubes.com? It doesn't exist - and if it did and the Thai authorities knew about that and your link to it they would probably deport you post haste.

REF Austhaied..Its called a sense of humour, some of us are gifted with It !

Thanks Mike the Vigo driver.. At least someone picked up on it.. Can't believe he actually thought there would be a website dedicated to knitting pubes.. What a guy...

[torito]

In this situation, I think the biggest difference between Thailand and other countries is Thailands economy depends on foreigners to survive and other countries do not.

Where did you get this crap richard?....

If all foreigners, to include tourist, were removed from Thailand for a year, the Thai economy would probably collapse.

Where did you get this crap richard?....

If all foreigners, to include tourist, were removed from the USA for a year, the economy would survive.

You should be CO in the World Bank...they need you in there. It is a fantastic analysis this one...

I think this is why some people think the Thai government should be a bit more understanding with its farang friends.

where is the why?...I can not see it

[cclub75]

It's amazing that some vagabond farang seem to feel like the rather simple act of impregnating girls in lands far from their homeland entitles them to live in those lands. Can't get a visa, impregnate a local girl. I don't think many countries are going to go for this thinking...

Oh this is really old fashioned... In France, for instance, we have a much better system (and more convenient).

A foreigner get married in his homecountry, he impregnates his wife, and then they go to France.

As soon as the woman delivers on the french soil, her child gets the french nationality...

Therefore, even if they are illegal imigrants, they have very little odds to be expulsed. Because they are parents of a "french" child.

Cool, huh ?

I should add (to enlight our thai friends), that the french state will of course provide this happy and foreign family with many social allowances and free health care.

Less would be... so bourgeois.

Edited May 13, 2007 by cclub75

[Phil Conners]

@dumspero: yes, more or less. The figure is higher, more or less relative to the GDP of the country.

@popshirt: Don't know about Panama, but at least Brazil, a country the size of USA, has similar cost than Thailand with a lot more benefits, as long as you stay out of the big cities.

@Austhaied: knityourownpubes.com? It doesn't exist - and if it did and the Thai authorities knew about that and your link to it they would probably deport you post haste.

REF Austhaied..Its called a sense of humour, some of us are gifted with It !

Thanks Mike the Vigo driver.. At least someone picked up on it.. Can't believe he actually thought there would be a website dedicated to knitting pubes.. What a guy...

I remember seeing a website called pubesrus.com or something like that ... if you think the idea of knityourownpubes.com is far fetched on todays internet you're the idiot!

[cdnvic]

Why don't you guys do a web search to settle this silly off-topic argument instead of trading infantile insults?

Google and Yahoo not working in your areas?

Edited May 13, 2007 by cdnvic

[bruceboy]

^

Discussing the 'knitting (of) pubes' infantile?

Edited May 13, 2007 by bruceboy

[click2delete]

As the OP of this thread, I made a statement and asked a question in the form of a poll. It would seem obvious to almost anyone with low functioning brain, that the majority of the people responded yes with not sure coming in a distant second.

Most people who bothered to vote believe that Thailand is pushing us out.

I have been called everything from lazy to vagabond by people that I can only surmise must suffer from a mild form of mental retardation not allowing them to comprehend that which they read. I have had to endure ridiculous threats about closing the thread because some people here don't want the truth to come out. Is this forum Thaivisa or a derivative of Pravda?

The thread took on a life of its own with many pouring in their thoughts on not be appreciated by the Thais. My portion of this was relaying that the Thai government wants to make it harder for the most desireable of immigrants, those that come here, support Thai Women, sometimes make babies, and bring up a family.

You would think the Thai Government was pro family but they are by evidence not. Oh, I do have a way to stay that is iffy at best and it involves paying a tax on a fictious income and then lying to immigration by telling them we have a business and oh by the way here is the tax receipt for the tax payment on the proceeds. Yes, that's just what I want to do, put myself or my wife at risk by lying to a government official in the middle of military occupied country. I guess I would have to join the ranks of the semi-retarded here in order to float that one beyond the sludge.

Many of the people (not ALL ENDURE) took great pleasure in hearing that someone else's ox might be gored. I'm sure they would have made great little Nazi sympathizers in their day and who knows maybe they descend from actual sympathizers in real life. I'm sure they would have been the first had they been Chinese in the latter part of the last century to turn in their parents for not giving up the pots so bullets could be made. A fine showing of humanity by some was endured by anyone who read the thread.

While the thread was teetering on being closed down for too much truthfulness, then a new twig emerged that I guess I started and that was about my thoughts on the majority (not ALL Endure) of Thai Men who would not make great role models for my young son.

Posters fell all over themselves to tell me how wrong I am, that life is beautiful every day and most (not ALL Endure) Thai men are pillars of the community.

My eyes don't tell me this is 100 percent true.

On my way back from the gym I stopped by the Thepprasit Market to pick up some food and animal supplies. I surveyed the scene using only my eyes. I saw hundreds of women working stalls and food tables throughout the market. I did not see even 100 men. Maybe the poster who said the men were cooking the food for sale and therefore not seen may be correct but who knows? My eyes told me something different. Where were all the men?

No doubt at the very moment I arrived at the market, the men had all left 4 minutes prior to go home, clean the house, walk the dog, feed the children, wash the clothes and defrost the freezer. I'm sure they all returned a few minutes after I left.

PeaceBlondie a moderator and Grandpa of 10 came up with a very caring diagnosis of my malady, that being I must suffer from a type of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome generated by my 5 week old son. I do think differently now but I didn't time the 90 day report to Immigration of my address and the subsequent question to the Captain at Immigration that revealed the Grandfather Clause was in it's last stage of terminal illness and slated to die October 1st.

No Grandpa - I didn't invent it, and I'm not suffering from any disorder. I'm just a father who has a new son living in a country that changes the rules daily. It's called FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) in my world.

I can explain it too all of you easily. I'd like you to come over to my house and help me change lightbulbs. I'm going to hold the desk chair (with wheels) but not all the time. In fact while you're changing a bulb I'm likely to start moving about. Sorry, can't help it - I'm just mental that way.

Don't hurt yourselves volunteering to help out.

I am admittedly one of those responsible parents. I don't drive a motorbike anymore and won't allow my wife to ride one either. You won't see me using my son as an airbag as I see many Farang fathers doing around here. I even ordered a car seat from America for the boy, that's right we don't carry him slung over our shoulder like a side of pork on the way to the butcher block to get cut up. Yet I see this daily and not just from the Thai People. I see Farangs treating their children as if the rules of physics somehow get suspended when they are out and about in Thailand. It's disgusting.

So you'll all have to excuse me for thining and planning for my son's future.

Thanks to the minority here who posted anything of value.

Edited May 13, 2007 by click2delete

[bruceboy]

Is this forum Thaivisa or a derivative of Pravda?

Why do you say that?

[chuchok]

Top post.I too can not understand the farang that buy "kiddie seats" for motorbikes.The first person I saw with one was a teacher at vChiang Mai university. While I don't agree with everything you have said,many points ring true.

[endure]

On my way back from the gym I stopped by the Thepprasit Market to pick up some food and animal supplies. I surveyed the scene using only my eyes. I saw hundreds of women working stalls and food tables throughout the market. I did not see even 100 men. Maybe the poster who said the men were cooking the food for sale and therefore not seen may be correct but who knows? My eyes told me something different. Where were all the men?

I think you'll find that Colpyat has already answered your question. The reason that you see hundreds of women working the market stalls is because that's what women do in Thailand. It's not usually a 'man's job' to work a market stall.

"It means 'working'.

Offices, factories, construction sites, farms, banks - well, the whole range where people are generally working. And given the generally lousy pay, increasing cost of living and worsening economy - men here have to work very hard, in general, to provide for their families.

Many of my male Thai friends sleep on average between 2 and 4 hours a night because they work two eight hour jobs, plus OT whenever they can.

Maybe that's why you don't see them much around - they are at work. "

[chuchok]

Many of my male Thai friends sleep on average between 2 and 4 hours a night because they work two eight hour jobs, plus OT whenever they can.

Strewth Endure,unheard of from where I live.2-4 hours a night?

[click2delete]

On my way back from the gym I stopped by the Thepprasit Market to pick up some food and animal supplies. I surveyed the scene using only my eyes. I saw hundreds of women working stalls and food tables throughout the market. I did not see even 100 men. Maybe the poster who said the men were cooking the food for sale and therefore not seen may be correct but who knows? My eyes told me something different. Where were all the men?

I think you'll find that Colpyat has already answered your question. The reason that you see hundreds of women working the market stalls is because that's what women do in Thailand. It's not usually a 'man's job' to work a market stall.

"It means 'working'.

Offices, factories, construction sites, farms, banks - well, the whole range where people are generally working. And given the generally lousy pay, increasing cost of living and worsening economy - men here have to work very hard, in general, to provide for their families.

Many of my male Thai friends sleep on average between 2 and 4 hours a night because they work two eight hour jobs, plus OT whenever they can.

Maybe that's why you don't see them much around - they are at work. "

Why isn't working a market stall man's work?

[jumnien]

If Thailand is pushing us out, who is pushing us in. I don't care where you live in Thailand, there is a massive increase in foreigners living here in the land of smiles. Sure, some are coming here because they seek a land where they can be abused and disgusted on a daily basis, but they are the minority. Most are coming and making a life for themselves and enjoying the fruits of a beautiful land. Of course, it is not perfect and there are challenges, but so many of us are so happy and grateful to have the opportunity. Since I've lived here in my town the farang population has gone from about 150 to 3,000 or more and continues to climb. The idea that the Thai government is pushing us out just doesn't hold water, mathematically or logically. The majority of farang are very happy to live here. Not because Thailand is geographically the most beautiful place on earth, there are many places far better, IMO. Most farang are happy here because of the loveliness of the Thai people and Thai way of life and its effect on their soul.

[teacup]

Why isn't working a market stall man's work?

Clicky......Are you seriously dense or what? Have you ever heard of the word "the opportunity cost"?

How will you be raising your 1 yr old, when you have no job, your wife has no job, and you2 havn't have a clue the meaning of the word "the opportunity cost"?

Ok I'm done with Mr. Clicky and his problem!....for now

[endure]

Many of my male Thai friends sleep on average between 2 and 4 hours a night because they work two eight hour jobs, plus OT whenever they can.

Strewth Endure,unheard of from where I live.2-4 hours a night?

That was actually a quote from Colpyat.

[click2delete]

Why isn't working a market stall man's work?

Clicky......Are you seriously dense or what? Have you ever heard of the word "the opportunity cost"?

How will you be raising your 1 yr old, when you have no job, your wife has no job, and you2 havn't have a clue the meaning of the word "the opportunity cost"?

Ok I'm done with Mr. Clicky and his problem!....for now

Good - I was getting tired of the tempest anyway.

[endure]

On my way back from the gym I stopped by the Thepprasit Market to pick up some food and animal supplies. I surveyed the scene using only my eyes. I saw hundreds of women working stalls and food tables throughout the market. I did not see even 100 men. Maybe the poster who said the men were cooking the food for sale and therefore not seen may be correct but who knows? My eyes told me something different. Where were all the men?

I think you'll find that Colpyat has already answered your question. The reason that you see hundreds of women working the market stalls is because that's what women do in Thailand. It's not usually a 'man's job' to work a market stall.

"It means 'working'.

Offices, factories, construction sites, farms, banks - well, the whole range where people are generally working. And given the generally lousy pay, increasing cost of living and worsening economy - men here have to work very hard, in general, to provide for their families.

Many of my male Thai friends sleep on average between 2 and 4 hours a night because they work two eight hour jobs, plus OT whenever they can.

Maybe that's why you don't see them much around - they are at work. "

Why isn't working a market stall man's work?

It isn't usually a 'man's job' in Thailand in the same way that hairdressing isn't usually a man's job in Thailand or coalmining isn't usually a woman's job in Kentucky. It's not that it's something that they're not capable of but it's something that they don't usually do.

[click2delete]

If Thailand is pushing us out, who is pushing us in. I don't care where you live in Thailand, there is a massive increase in foreigners living here in the land of smiles. Sure, some are coming here because they seek a land where they can be abused and disgusted on a daily basis, but they are the minority. Most are coming and making a life for themselves and enjoying the fruits of a beautiful land. Of course, it is not perfect and there are challenges, but so many of us are so happy and grateful to have the opportunity. Since I've lived here in my town the farang population has gone from about 150 to 3,000 or more and continues to climb. The idea that the Thai government is pushing us out just doesn't hold water, mathematically or logically. The majority of farang are very happy to live here. Not because Thailand is geographically the most beautiful place on earth, there are many places far better, IMO. Most farang are happy here because of the loveliness of the Thai people and Thai way of life and its effect on their soul.

“There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the causes of happenings.” – Dorothy Thompson

Read the poll result.

[BAF]

I think you'll find that Colpyat has already answered your question. The reason that you see hundreds of women working the market stalls is because that's what women do in Thailand. It's not usually a 'man's job' to work a market stall.

To you and Colpyat: in how many countries have you seen so many young women working as construction workers and garbage collectors as in the "Land of Smiles"?

Care to list a few of them?

In Thailand I have seen women doing ALL the "women's jobs" out there PLUS many so called "men's jobs" (especially the not so good ones, of course).

Men's general laziness and exploitation of women is hardly Thailand's exclusivity anyway. I have witnessed it in many other 3rd world countries around the world.

Now, more to the point of the thread. I am one of those lucky ones who have money, time and no need to work (I gladly leave this "pleasure" to Neeranam) and have been lucky enough to have started to travel around the world from a very young age. The last country I have lived in has been Thailand (for almost 4 years) and I am now back at home in Italy getting my second degree (in Nursing, the first one is in Social Sciences) which will allow me to legally move to the USA with my Thai wife.

Through my travelling and living in many different countries around the world, I have quickly realized how really are the peoples, the cultures, the societies, the values and the principles you find outside of the West and I have found them to be EXTREMELY different from what (for their various reasons) we are told they are by the Western PC media/politics/organizations/schools/etc back at home.

The Universal Basic Human Rights are "universal" only in the Western minds that conceived it.

I now firmly believe that the only effective way to deal with the problems foreigners have in our home countries and that we have in foreign countries is RECIPROCATING the s.hit we get anywhere in the world outside of our tiny, fragile Western bubble of civilization.

P.S. And if that means kicking out of my home country my Thai wife because we don't have a combined monthly income of 6/7 times the average Italian wage (as Thailand does), so be it.

Edited May 13, 2007 by BAF

[Naam]

Read the poll result.

by voting we submitted our opinion. opinions do not necessarily reflect facts.

[Naam]

Does the USA still give 10 year visas ?

yes, the 10y visas still exist. however they are not meant to reside but to visit the U.S. the INS keeps a tab on you and if you stay for an accumulated period you are rigorously questioned.

moreover, visitor visas issued by a U.S. authority such as embassy or consulate does not guarantee entry. it is up to the individual immigration officer to reject entry and send the holder of the visa back on the next flight.

[Tilokarat]

This is off-topic, but the OP seems to be having problems based on the fact that women are selling things and the men are nowhere to be seen in the market. During Victorian times when the British came to Burma they were really bothered by the fact that they had to haggle and bargain in the markets with tough Burmese women. To middle-class Englishmen, women were supposed to be the 'angel in the house', and it upset them to be faced by women in the markets. I forgot the name of the books, but one is Pictoresque Burma by Edith (?) Hart, and some others have titles like, Burma, as it was, it is and it will be; The Burman: His Life and Notions, and so on.

'Where were the men', asked the British? At that time, they were performing the socially sanctioned act of making merit by living as monks in the temples. Not all men were monks, but many were.

This led many historians to argue that women had equality with men in the Theravada Buddhist societies of Asia. However, they neglected the fact that making money meant nothing socially to most Buddhists in the 19th century. Women could not become monks; therefore, the men were superior to women in society.

The British were very hard-pressed to convince the Burmese that England had the sort of progress that Burma should emulate. The Burmese were shown pictures of Windsor Castle and other structures to prove the superiority of British civilisation; nevertheless, the grey walls at Windsor did not impress the Burmese who thought that the glittering gold of the Shwedagon Pagoda was far superior to anything Britain could produce.

The OP only has to look around a bit more carefully to find the men working. For example, I have not seen too many female tuk-tuk drivers, truck and taxi drivers in Thailand. Inside office buildings, one can find many Thai males. There are good and bad people in every country, and Thailand has their share of men who could be role models to any child around the world.

As far as whether you stay or leave, up to you!

[mbkudu]

Why isn't working a market stall man's work?

The same reason driving a tuk-tuk or a taxi isn't a woman's job. Get it? It's cultural thing.

In Indonesia the women do the women's jobs and the men's jobs.

Edited May 13, 2007 by mbkudu

[BAF]

Why isn't working a market stall man's work?

The same reason driving a tuk-tuk or a taxi isn't a woman's job. Get it? It's cultural thing.

So, if I get it, in "Thai culture" construction working and garbage collecting are woman's job. Right?

P.S. I see you have just edited your post and added "In Indonesia the women do the women's jobs and the men's jobs." You should make up your mind and get clearer ideas and opinions before offering "explanations" with a "Get it?" attached to them.

Edited May 14, 2007 by BAF

[jumnien]

93 out of 45,000 TV's feel oh so maligned and unappreciated by the Thai government. I'd say that's a pretty inconclusive poll. I think if the Thai govt really wanted foreigners to leave you would not see the phenomenal growth we are seeing in the farang population. Compare the numbers of farangs living in Thailand decade by decade over the last fifty years here. Better yet, check out the increases in the last three. This last year or two here in Hua Hin the farang population has probably doubled. Much of this is due to the new visa regs which encourage a one year visa and the sense of security and belonging that comes with that as opposed to the old "run to the border" ridiculousness of years past.

[dumspero]

Click- None of us know everything. We all have things to learn. Does the world really fit into your tendency to make sweeping, all-inclusive generalizations?

You exhibit very little respect for the right of a sovereign country to set the policies that it deems to be in the best interests of its citizens, including deciding which foreigners get to stay in-country. At least prior to warnings, you exhibited zero respect for Thai men. Even after the warnings, you complain about a Pravda-like effort to censor the "truth," as though your essentially baseless opinions about Thai men not working and all Thai men being bad are the "truth." Many of us with friends and loved ones who happen to be extremely hard working Thai men find that patently offensive.

Again, it's great that you love and focus on your young family. But your posts only provide evidence the Thai government is onto something with moves to contract against the dodgier farangs staying on long-term.